[Proposal] Demko for Ristolainen

[Pepe Silvia]

12 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

What's wrong with DiPietro?  Guy was one of the very few bright spots on a weak Team Canada and a backstopped Windsor to a Memorial Cup.  Great character kid and a competitive guy.

He's a nice kid, great character and I really do hope he succeeds.

I just don't think he has the size in todays NHL game. He's smaller than every single listed starter, minus DeSmith.  He's listed at 6' and I think even that is generous. Goalies are trending to be bigger, much like the players are trending towards a speed game. A player could have all the skill in the world, but if he accelerates like a 1955 Cadillac, he's going to have a tough road a head of him. Much like DiPietro and his size. When you actually see him in net, he looks TINY. Todays shooters are too good and will pick him apart. Unless he's behind one of the top defensive cores in the NHL (eg. Saros) I just can't see him having success. 

Next year should be a big year for him, seeing what he can do against grown men. I'd love nothing more than to see him make me eat crow. For now, I'm just not sold on him.

 

[shiznak]

26 minutes ago, SabreFan1 said:

 

The Sabres need to dump Ullmark.  He was streaky in the AHL and is even streakier in the NHL. 

 

Demko would be an upgrade over Hutton.  By the time Luukkonen then comes into the league, Hutton's contract will be up and the Sabres would have a very good goaltending duo in Demko and Luukkonen.

 

Like I said in the other thread though; I'm a big Demko fanboy and I'm not that big on Risto so my opinions on a trade like that should be taken with a large grain of salt.

Better off going after Bobrovsky or Varlamov.

 

Botterill is under pressure to make the playoffs and like I said, Demko isn’t that guy who will take them to the promise-land, next year.

[SabreFan1]

2 minutes ago, elvis15 said:

For Ristolainen, is it just his own end or is there other issues, like with Dougie Hamilton? He can certainly put up points (as can Hamilton) but if it's just defence that can be worked on or at least mitigated to an extent.

Good question.  In my opinion, he has fundamental flaws in his game.  Can they be corrected after this long?  Your guess is as good as mine.

 

I think the best option to start with would be to put him on the top or better yet second pairing with Hughes and let him cash in on Ristos rebounds and put in his near misses.  Hughes has the talent to do that.

 

If you're giving up a potential talent like Demko for a d-man who you think needs his fundamentals to be corrected, is it worth it for the Canucks?  In my opinion, it's not, but as I said earlier.  I'm a Demko fanboy and a Risto detractor.  Others on CDC love Ristos game.

[SabreFan1]

2 minutes ago, shiznak said:

Better off going after Bobrovsky or Varlamov.

 

Botterill is under pressure to make the playoffs and like I said, Demko isn’t that guy who will take them to the promise-land, next year.

As much as I like Botterill, I like the Sabres much more.  If Demko becomes as good as I think he will, I'll stand outside Keybank Center and wave goodbye to Botterill as he drives out of town after being fired next year.

 

Besides, I don't think the Sabres will make the playoffs next year either.  It's become apparent that the culture has once again gone sour in the locker-room.  I almost guarantee Housley is getting fired in the off-season.  Botterill is going to have to do another roster shake-up as well.

[Smashian Kassian]

I was gunna comment on this in the draft thread. I see alot of people this year are down on Ristonlanien. I don't know if he would be at the top of my list for D men to target although you certainly love his tools.

 

For the Canucks Demko for Risto is pretty good value. Goalies don't generally have alot of value especially ones that aren't proven, even if Ristolanien is having a down year. Don't think Buffalo does it though.

 

Would I do it if possible? I guess. Don't think it is though. 

 

[elvis15]

8 minutes ago, SabreFan1 said:

Good question.  In my opinion, he has fundamental flaws in his game.  Can they be corrected after this long?  Your guess is as good as mine.

 

I think the best option to start with would be to put him on the top or better yet second pairing with Hughes and let him cash in on Ristos rebounds and put in his near misses.  Hughes has the talent to do that.

 

If you're giving up a potential talent like Demko for a d-man who you think needs his fundamentals to be corrected, is it worth it for the Canucks?  In my opinion, it's not, but as I said earlier.  I'm a Demko fanboy and a Risto detractor.  Others on CDC love Ristos game.

Yeah, hear ya, but goalies never get top value so I don't know that he'd equal up to a ~40 point defenceman. The deal would make a difference in whether I'd do it for Risto, but it's worth inquiring what they'd want now that he's behind Dahlin.

[SabreFan1]

Just now, Smashian Kassian said:

I was gunna comment on this in the draft thread. I see alot of people this year are down on Ristonlanien. I don't know if he would be at the top of my list for D men to target although you certainly love his tools.

 

For the Canucks Demko for Risto is pretty good value. Goalies don't generally have alot of value especially ones that aren't proven, even if Ristolanien is having a down year. Don't think Buffalo does it though.

 

Would I do it if possible? I guess. Don't think it is though.

Goalies are like NFL QB's.  If you believe strongly in a young one, you do what you can to get him.  If you don't then he's not worth a valuable piece.  It all boils down to how much JB and Botterill think about Demko's game.

 

The Sabres once got Hasek for a song because John Muckler strongly believed in him and Chicago didn't.  Muckler was right.

[SabreFan1]

Just now, elvis15 said:

Yeah, hear ya, but goalies never get top value so I don't know that he'd equal up to a ~40 point defenceman. The deal would make a difference in whether I'd do it for Risto, but it's worth inquiring what they'd want now that he's behind Dahlin.

Rumour had it that Botterill was seriously listening to offers before the TDL.  I'd be curious to find out what kind of offers he was turning down.

[shiznak]

Just now, SabreFan1 said:

As much as I like Botterill, I like the Sabres much more.  If Demko becomes as good as I think he will, I'll stand outside Keybank Center and wave goodbye to Botterill as he drives out of town after being fired next year.

 

Besides, I don't think the Sabres will make the playoffs next year either.  It's become apparent that the culture has once again gone sour in the locker-room.  I almost guarantee Housley is getting fired in the off-season.  Botterill is going to have to do another roster shake-up as well.

Didn’t they win like 9 straight earlier up in the season? I believe they can be a playoffs team, if they add the right personnels into their lineup. 

 

If Ristolainen is indeed in play and they’re looking for a young goaltender as an upgrade. I’ll be looking at Pittsburgh as a trading partner. Particularly, Matt Murray. Both players are having “down” years and I think one-for one is a pretty fair deal, with the emergence of De Smith and Jarry waiting in the wing for Pittsburgh. Although, I don’t know how much Pittsburgh values Ristolainen. They have a similar defensemen in Schultz.

[Stelar]

One guy who gets my attention every time I watch the sabres is Tage Thompson. Maybe @SabreFan1 can fill me in on his development. I see his stats but he seems like a big kid with decent hands. 

[SabreFan1]

Just now, shiznak said:

Didn’t they win like 9 straight earlier up in the season? I believe they can be a playoffs team, if they add the right personnels into their lineup. 

 

If Ristolainen is indeed in play and they’re looking for a young goaltender as an upgrade. I’ll be looking at Pittsburgh as a trading partner. Particularly, Matt Murray. Both players are having “down” years and I think one-for one is a pretty fair deal, with the emergence of De Smith and Jarry waiting in the wing for Pittsburgh. Although, I don’t know how much Pittsburgh values Ristolainen. They have a similar defensemen in Schultz.

Yep, they won 10 in a row in November and then went into a near free-fall afterwards.  Their fortunes rose and fell with the top line.

 

Their 2nd line needs to grow, or they need to pick up better wingers in the off-season for it and then they need to seriously revamp the bottom 6.

 

You might be right with Pittsburgh, especially since that's where Botterill learned his craft.

[SabreFan1]

3 minutes ago, Stelar said:

One guy who gets my attention every time I watch the sabres is Tage Thompson. Maybe @SabreFan1 can fill me in on his development. I see his stats but he seems like a big kid with decent hands. 

The Sabres got him in the ROR trade.  They actually insisted on picking him up in order to agree to the trade.  They think highly of him and are going to hold onto him.  No chance he gets traded.

[Stelar]

2 minutes ago, SabreFan1 said:

The Sabres got him in the ROR trade.  They actually insisted on picking him up in order to agree to the trade.  They think highly of him and are going to hold onto him.  No chance he gets traded.

Ok good to know. 

[Kobayashi Maru]

I would want to keep the players that are in our next core and I think Markstrom and Demko make us set for years.  That puts Dipietro in play.  Would a basis of Tanev and Dipietro be a good starting point for Risto?  Even if we add one of our middle prospects I would do it but it all depends on what buffalo values.

[Phil_314]

Interesting potential buy-low idea, if you can call Ristolainen that.  Is his defense Gudbranson-bad?  Otherwise how does his +/- end up so much worse than everyone else in the league by a fair margin (does he face the top competition night in, night out)?  Then again, I agree that if we could get a potential #1 right handed D-man for cheaper, I would jump all over it.  Demko is highly touted for sure, but goalies are easy to replace, and it's not like he's without flaws (he's been getting beat cleanly on multiple occasions this season in limited starts).  

[SabreFan1]

1 minute ago, Kobayashi Maru said:

I would want to keep the players that are in our next core and I think Markstrom and Demko make us set for years.  That puts Dipietro in play.  Would a basis of Tanev and Dipietro be a good starting point for Risto?  Even if we add one of our middle prospects I would do it but it all depends on what buffalo values.

Tanev would be a non-starter for several reasons.  The Sabres passed on DiPietro in the draft to pick up Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen in goal so that's another non-starter. 

 

As for adding in a middle prospect, the Sabres have enough of their own so they don't need other team's.  Quantity does not equal quality.

[SabreFan1]

5 minutes ago, Phil_314 said:

Interesting potential buy-low idea, if you can call Ristolainen that.  Is his defense Gudbranson-bad?  Otherwise how does his +/- end up so much worse than everyone else in the league by a fair margin (does he face the top competition night in, night out)?  Then again, I agree that if we could get a potential #1 right handed D-man for cheaper, I would jump all over it.  Demko is highly touted for sure, but goalies are easy to replace, and it's not like he's without flaws (he's been getting beat cleanly on multiple occasions this season in limited starts).  

It all depends on how much both JB and Botterill both value Demko.  If Botterill doesn't think much of him, he wouldn't entertain the idea.  Likewise with JB.  If JB has a huge value placed on him, he won't let him go.

 

I'm the worst person to evaluate this trade though since I have biases for Demko and against Risto. 

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

2 hours ago, mll said:

They just extended Koskinen to a 3 year deal at 4.5M.  

Chiarelli's final act of betrayal

[coastal.view]

1 hour ago, SabreFan1 said:

Besides, I don't think the Sabres will make the playoffs next year either.  It's become apparent that the culture has once again gone sour in the locker-room.  I almost guarantee Housley is getting fired in the off-season.  Botterill is going to have to do another roster shake-up as well.

chin up man

i'm not as down on the sabres culture issues as you are

they clearly have some problems though

 

i still think their key elite pieces have not been too badly tainted by the losing

dahlin is still fresh

eichel seems fairly focused and ok

 

their young talent has time to develop still and likely will

with such a young team more of the growth can come from within still

they have a lot of young depth

i think the sabres can over come their losing and make the playoffs next season

 

now speak to me about the coilers

and i can give you a more lengthy viewpoint

on how their culture really sucks

it resonates from management down

and they keep the poisoning going in the locker room

by allowing key players like mcdavid and draisaitl chase personal point goals

instead of playing a better team game

they are in big trouble moving forward

[kloubek]

I like the *idea* of what you are trying to do. 

 

-Scoring RD with size

-Saves us from having to worry about protecting any goalie other than Markstrom for the ED

 

It is just that Ristolainen isn't the best player defensively and supposedly this year he has been pretty brutal. The amount of points he gets is offset by the amount he gives up, imo.  He also seems to have hit his ceiling and I don't see any extra upside with him.

 

So in short I like the idea, but not the target.