[Discussion] Is there a pending RFA would gladly surrender four 1st round picks in an offer sheet?

[Putgolzin]

4 minutes ago, BCNate said:

Hughes, EP, Boeser, Virtanen.  Is there anyone in the league you'd trade for that package?  

Nope.

But it's not very realistic that would be the package.

It would more likely be a package similar to Virtanen, Shinkaruk, Gaunce, Jensen.

[Putgolzin]

42 minutes ago, canuktravella said:

id offers sheet marner 6 yrs 10.05 mill a yr  with 25 mill of it being a signing bonus  that way wed give up 2 firsts a second and third   and wed get him for his prime yrs 21-27 almost 28  but only giving up late first rounders  because a lineup of.          pearson petey marner

                      virtanen horvat boeser

                      mcewen gaudette goldo

                      leivo   beagle motte 

 

                      edler stecher

                     hughes tryamkin

                     juolevi 

 

           marky

           demko

 

looks unreal

Unfortunately the Leafs would match that I think. That's probably what it's going to cost to sign him, offer sheets or not.

We would have to entirely cripple them.

Which becomes perhaps as big a question as the draft picks - can we afford a long-term $12m contract when Petey etc start wanting to get paid.

[xereau]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Is there any rule about where the picks need to be in the first round?  I we stole Marner for those for first, maybe all four picks are in the 20 to 30 range?  That's 4 average guys, for a guy who is clearly a super duper star.  

I'd offer sheet Marner 12 million X 7 years.  If the Leafs match, they are hooped with the Cap.  If they don't, we get Marner.  (Marner has to sign the offer though)

No rule.  Could potentially be 4x 32OA.

 

So the danger or total cost all hinges on whether or not the target can vault your team to the top of the standings.

 

[shiznak]

Losing 4 (most likely late) first rounders would only cripple the franchise, if we didn’t already have a solid foundation of young guys on this team. Adding a player like Marner to an already strong group of guys, will make us an instant playoff contender and will hasten the rebuild.

 

Lets put it this way, by the time those four first rounder make any impact in the league. Horvat and Demko would already be in their late 20s, and we would have wasted their prime years, waiting on those prospect to develop.

Edited April 18, 2019 by shiznak

[theo5789]

2 hours ago, canuktravella said:

id offers sheet marner 6 yrs 10.05 mill a yr  with 25 mill of it being a signing bonus  that way wed give up 2 firsts a second and third   and wed get him for his prime yrs 21-27 almost 28  but only giving up late first rounders  because a lineup of.          pearson petey marner

                      virtanen horvat boeser

                      mcewen gaudette goldo

                      leivo   beagle motte 

 

                      edler stecher

                     hughes tryamkin

                     juolevi 

 

           marky

           demko

 

looks unreal

Toronto will certainly match anything under the 4 1sts threshold as they can make deals to accommodate without losing their star player for under value. They will need to make some moves to dump cap. If I were them, I'd be open to moving Matthews as that would net a nice return.

[BCNate]

1 hour ago, nzan said:

Nope.

But it's not very realistic that would be the package.

It would more likely be a package similar to Virtanen, Shinkaruk, Gaunce, Jensen.

Why not?  That is our last 4 1st round picks.  If you sign Marner, your coughing up your next 4.

[J.I.A.H.N]

OK, I am going to make a statement to get a response, because I do not know the answer......please feel free to comment

 

So, other than Marner, I am not sure any of the RFA's are worth more than 8.1 Million

 

So for a top end team......that has cap, they "could" offer any of those players up to 8.1 Million

 

And their punishment would be a 1st, a 2nd and a 3rd,,,,so let's just say 28th OA + 59th OA + 90th OA

 

I would do that, if I was finished my rebuild for a lot of those guys...….thoughts?

[Kobayashi Maru]

7 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

OK, I am going to make a statement to get a response, because I do not know the answer......please feel free to comment

 

So, other than Marner, I am not sure any of the RFA's are worth more than 8.1 Million

 

So for a top end team......that has cap, they "could" offer any of those players up to 8.1 Million

 

And their punishment would be a 1st, a 2nd and a 3rd,,,,so let's just say 28th OA + 59th OA + 90th OA

 

I would do that, if I was finished my rebuild for a lot of those guys...….thoughts?

Good call.  That is much more reasonable as far as a draft pick payout. Players like Aho, Laine, Rantanen and maybe Tkachuk are worth that payout of picks.  4 1sts is just too big of a pill to swallow.

[HughMungus]

I would rather give

 

10th overall, 2020 1st, Julevi, 1 of Dipietro/Demko

 

Than 4 firsts

 

Imo values close. Some teams need a package like that to stay relevent

[D-Money]

It's only worth it (four 1sts) if your team is poised to be at the top of the standings for the next 4 years. But then you also have to have cap space to do it. Not to mention having to deal with the fallout from the other GMs.

 

Golden Knights could swing it.

[KKnight]

On 4/17/2019 at 8:36 PM, SabreFan1 said:

That's not how offer sheets work.  You don't choose the compensation.  It's pre-determined.  The level that involves two 1st rounders also includes a 2nd and 3rd.

 

Here's last year's table:

 

Offer Sheet (AAV)	Compensation
$1,339,575 or below	None
Over $1,339,575 to $2,029,59	3rd
Over $2,029,59 to $4,059,322	2nd
Over $4,059,322 to $6,088,980	1st, 3rd
Over $6,088,980 to $8,118,641	1st, 2nd, 3rd
Over $8,118,641 to $10,148,302	(2) 1st, 2nd, 3rd
Over $10,148,302	(4) 1st

Only players I would give 4 first up for would be: McDavid and Mackinnon. 

[IBatch]

On 4/18/2019 at 12:52 AM, Hindustan Smyl said:

RFA offer sheets do more harm than good for GM’s in my opinion:

 

1) RFA offer sheets are almost always matched.

 

2) GM’s making RFA offer sheets take a big hit rep wise (in a negative way).

 

My advice for Benning would be to see if a deal can be worked out with this teams for those cap crunched teams.

 

2019 1st + 2020 1st + Hutton should get the attention of some of those teams that are at high risk of losing their players to predatory RFA offer sheets.

 

1) Let cap strapped teams *begrudgingly* match predatory offer sheets from other teams (the operative word being ‘other teams.’).

 

2) Let us come in afterwards as the knights in shining armours, and offer our above package.

Offer sheet someone and watch the show (media one) for a few years perhaps as was the case when Lowe poached Penner from Burke.   Lowe was wrong to do this, he shot himself in the foot in more ways than one (the biggest being Penner never lived up to his hype).  

 

Benning built a lot of capital with the GMs, right away they preferred him to Gillis why mess with that now?  And once he’s done it EP and Hughes (and maybe even Boeser depending on the timing of it) are open season.   I can see that Marner makes sense in many ways (and Dubas might even welcome one, it would hurt but also provide the cap relief they will need and a whole bevy of picks to round things out for them in the future either as trade adds or just keeping them) but personally I don’t want our GM to do it.  

 

In reality we aren’t good enough yet to go after UFAs or poach a player, we need another season of draft and develop.  Two more lottery firsts (this year and next) could get us both the RHD we all know we need so desperately, and another top six plus plus plus.  Our core other then maybe Horvat is extremely young.  There is plenty of time to complete the rebuild through the draft, and later start using our picks and players for plugging the few holes left in the lineup, and look to free agency to improve a line or two.  

 

Point and Marner are both worth 10plus now that AM contract is done.  That’s a lot of cap for one player and a lot of picks given up.  Not worth it.  If Benning wants to move things ahead then sign Duchene or maybe Myers, leave the rest alone (and even that could blow up in his face). 

[Maniwaki Canuck]

Would love to have Marner of course, but we'd soon be close to where the Leafs are with the cap if we did it.  Brock, Petey and Hughes are all going to get paid soon.  Those guys plus Marner could easily eat up half of our cap. 

Depth is key to a winning team, just as much as top-end talent.  Having some money for a good third line is important, as are good players on entry-level contracts.  You can't do either of those things if you've blown all your cap and draft picks on a handful of top players. 

Balance is key to putting a strong team together.  So I'd rather try to make a deal for someone a little lower on the list than Marner, who wouldn't set us back so many picks or eat up as much cap space.  Taking advantage of teams hard up against the cap is definitely worth trying, though.

[SabreFan1]

2 hours ago, KKnight said:

Only players I would give 4 first up for would be: McDavid and Mackinnon. 

If all the Canucks needed was 1 player to get into contention for the Cup, I'd likely agree.  Problem is that the Canucks need several more players to get into contention and losing the next 4 first round picks would not only hurt the big club, but it would put a dent in the minor league affiliated clubs as well.

[KKnight]

6 minutes ago, SabreFan1 said:

If all the Canucks needed was 1 player to get into contention for the Cup, I'd likely agree.  Problem is that the Canucks need several more players to get into contention and losing the next 4 first round picks would not only hurt the big club, but it would put a dent in the minor league affiliated clubs as well.

Definitely. Now is not the time to add a Marner or whatever it may be. I might be willing to give up the max compensation of a 2nd rounder for Kapanen, but they would likely match. 

 

UFA is a different story. If we could get a Panarin or Lee on July 1st. I would definitely look at that. 

[IBatch]

On 4/18/2019 at 7:15 PM, janisahockeynut said:

OK, I am going to make a statement to get a response, because I do not know the answer......please feel free to comment

 

So, other than Marner, I am not sure any of the RFA's are worth more than 8.1 Million

 

So for a top end team......that has cap, they "could" offer any of those players up to 8.1 Million

 

And their punishment would be a 1st, a 2nd and a 3rd,,,,so let's just say 28th OA + 59th OA + 90th OA

 

I would do that, if I was finished my rebuild for a lot of those guys...….thoughts?

My thought are hell yes if that’s actually what we’d be giving up, that would mean a trip to the conference finals next year.  In reality it COULD be a first overall (say we finish 5th to last and finally get the balls to work for us, and with our luck it’s possible if not likely) a 32 and a 63thd.  Probably somewhere in the middle like a 13th a 44 and a 75th...would you still do it?  Would leave us a gap in our upcoming prospect pool for someone like MT...

[J.I.A.H.N]

9 minutes ago, IBatch said:

My thought are hell yes if that’s actually what we’d be giving up, that would mean a trip to the conference finals next year.  In reality it COULD be a first overall (say we finish 5th to last and finally get the balls to work for us, and with our luck it’s possible if not likely) a 32 and a 63thd.  Probably somewhere in the middle like a 13th a 44 and a 75th...would you still do it?  Would leave us a gap in our upcoming prospect pool for someone like MT...

Yes, I really think it matters where you are in your rebuild, how long you have your core players signed for (there could be retribution), and where you are in the standings.....

I don't just think you sign a good RFA because you want him, which is why there are not too many (IF Any) signed.

 

But if you have everything under control...………..

No Luongo contract

No Eriksson contract 

All your Core on long term deals

and your top 2 lines and top pairing full

except that one RFA

Yeah hell go for it!

 

But don't ever cry when someone does it to you......

 

I think the NHL is there right now...………"Do you feel lucky, punk? Do you?"

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, SabreFan1 said:

If all the Canucks needed was 1 player to get into contention for the Cup, I'd likely agree.  Problem is that the Canucks need several more players to get into contention and losing the next 4 first round picks would not only hurt the big club, but it would put a dent in the minor league affiliated clubs as well.

This exactly.  I know it’s all but impossible to have a team like Tampa Bay (yes I know what happened to them but luck was a huge part of that, no Norris caliber play from injured Hedman and no Kucherov in a one goal game), they have cap tax relief and give them credit they are making the most of it (Point can sign a what would be a 10 million dollar contract anywhere else but Vegas and Florida for 8.5 in TB just like Stamkos did) ... 

 

We have holes in key spots.  Two in defense and that’s with Hughes playing like a number one (albeit one that won’t score bunches of goals from the point or crush anyone) and two in the top six.  Possibly goaltending although that’s looking pretty bright at the moment.  One more star guy would help but it wouldn’t help our chances of creating a well balanced team.  It’s fun to talk about this as we have some great young players now, but four isn’t enough seven is what we need.  One more doing it like this would make it next to impossible to get the last two, either by free agency as our cap would soon catch up to us, and definitely by our drafting...Benning can’t get us a guy in the fourth round that’s going to be a difference maker next draft.    But he can with his first three picks, probably two NHLers and one of them is a core piece.  It’s entirely possible that he will get the rest with two more drafts, we might already have one in the system with OJ and Woo.   With his next two drafts the odds are pretty good he will get us two more core guys and two more supporting cast players, let’s just be patient and let it happen organically. 

[IBatch]

4 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

Yes, I really think it matters where you are in your rebuild, how long you have your core players signed for (there could be retribution), and where you are in the standings.....

I don't just think you sign a good RFA because you want him, which is why there are not too many (IF Any) signed.

 

But if you have everything under control...………..

No Luongo contract

No Eriksson contract 

All your Core on long term deals

and your top 2 lines and top pairing full

except that one RFA

Yeah hell go for it!

 

But don't ever cry when someone does it to you......

 

I think the NHL is there right now...………"Do you feel lucky, punk? Do you?"

You crack me up.   I like your threads, not enough them IMO (ones that offer some interesting discoure) don’t stop making them.

[J.I.A.H.N]

6 minutes ago, IBatch said:

You crack me up.   I like your threads, not enough them IMO (ones that offer some interesting discoure) don’t stop making them.

Not sure if I am getting poked at, or you honestly like them....lol