Joe Biden Debates Donald Trump September 29

[PhillipBlunt]

2 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Too much meddling.  Let the people decide.

American politics are as corrupt as any on the planet.

[nuckin_futz]

23 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I hope you're correct on that. But switching votes from an incumbent is harder to do than when you have two new candidates to choose from. I personally don't see Biden being strong enough to get people to switch but I guess we'll see what the message is. 

Biden's theme is "what can you deliver" vs Bernie's which is "what can you promise". Bernie is promising things he knows he'll never have the votes for. One thing is a free college, paid for by Wall St. His proposal is for a "speculation tax".

 

Now this is a subject near and dear to my heart as I make a living in finance. The idea of such a tax has been kicked around for a long time. Representative DeFazio (D- Oregon) proposes it every year and it gets zero support and goes away until he tries again the following year.

 

The proposal is not a minor tax on profits (that wouldn't be such a big deal), it's a tax on transactions. They propose a 1/10th of 1% tax on the purchase price of a security. Doesn't sound like much does it? Let's say you buy 1000 shares of Apple. The purchase price being $295,000. Trades like this go on every second of the day. The average daily volume of Apple is 36 million shares. The tax owed on 1000 shares would be $295 regardless of if you eventually made money on your trade.

 

Back in the day when this was first proposed I use to trade stocks quite heavily (since moved on to other products). I calculated what I'd owe and it came to $14,000 a day in tax. I guarantee you I was not making anywhere close to $14k a day. The proposal is not only punitive, it's stupid.

 

It would result in a drop in volume. Which would mean less tax collected than originally thought. It would cause markets to get less liquid.  How do we know this? Because a long time ago it was tried in Sweden. It resulted in volume fleeing their market, spreads widening, and in general was a sh*t show of a debacle. They abandoned the whole program in short order.

 

Bernie knows it's BS he'll never implement. But in the meantime millions of Bernie Bros get to dream of "sticking it to the man" and going to college on someone else's dime.

 

It's good to dream, but let's keep the dreams reasonable like you get a promotion at work. Not the Swedish Bikini Team shows up at your front door for an orgy.

 

 

 

Edited March 4, 2020 by nuckin_futz

[JM_]

24 minutes ago, Toews said:

I think the evidence has been the last four years. I understand that people can get myopic and only think about themselves but there is a madman currently in the White House whose decisions or more appropriately his whims have immense global consequences. You can aim for progress but at least establish some sanity first.

is it really myopic when you have no chance of owning a home, heck even a car, and are looking at part time jobs with crappy benefits? would you honestly be thinking globally if you were that position? 

[Toews]

4 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

It's good to dream, but let's keep the dreams reasonable like you get a promotion at work. Not the Swedish Bikini Team shows up at your front door for an orgy.

Can't agree with this bit. That sounds like a fun dream. I think goals probably fits better. 

[JM_]

9 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

Biden's theme is "what can you deliver" vs Bernie's which is "what can you promise". Bernie is promising things he knows he'll never have the votes for.

 

I think its more about who's on your side. What has the establishment got kids U30? 

[nuckin_futz]

7 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I think its more about who's on your side. What has the establishment got kids U30? 

I disagree. It's about what you can deliver. That's how progress is made. Having a big posse is cool, but if you can't deliver you're just a guy with a big fan club.

[Tortorella's Rant]

19 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

Biden's theme is "what can you deliver" vs Bernie's which is "what can you promise". Bernie is promising things he knows he'll never have the votes for. One thing is a free college, paid for by Wall St. His proposal is for a "speculation tax".

 

Now this is a subject near and dear to my heart as I make a living in finance. The idea of such a tax has been kicked around for a long time. Representative DeFazio (D- Oregon) proposes it every year and it gets zero support and goes away until he tries again the following year.

 

The proposal is not a minor tax on profits (that wouldn't be such a big deal), it's a tax on transactions. They propose a 1/10th of 1% tax on the purchase price of a security. Doesn't sound like much does it? Let's say you buy 1000 shares of Apple. The purchase price being $295,000. Trades like this go on every second of the day. The average daily volume of Apple is 36 million shares. The tax owed on 1000 shares would be $295 regardless of if you eventually made money on your trade.

 

Back in the day when this was first proposed I use to trade stocks quite heavily (since moved on to other products). I calculated what I'd owe and it came to $14,000 a day in tax. I guarantee you I was not making anywhere close to $14k a day. The proposal is not only punitive, it's stupid.

 

It would result in a drop in volume. Which would mean less tax collected than originally thought. It would cause markets to get less liquid.  How do we know this? Because a long time ago it was tried in Sweden. It resulted in volume fleeing their market, spreads widening, and in general was a sh*t show of a debacle. They abandoned the whole program in short order.

 

Bernie knows it's BS he'll never implement. But in the meantime millions of Bernie Bros get to dream of "sticking it to the man" and going to college on someone else's dime.

 

It's good to dream, but let's keep the dreams reasonable like you get a promotion at work. Not the Swedish Bikini Team shows up at your front door for an orgy.

 

 

 

Probably. And I think that's why a lot of people are flocking to Joe. Bernie means well but some of his ideas have no chance in hell. Other candidates have acknowledged the improbability of these things. Congress and Senate right now can't even pass things that they clearly can and should...

[Toews]

1 minute ago, Jimmy McGill said:

is it really myopic when you have no chance of owning a home, heck even a car, and are looking at part time jobs with crappy benefits? would you honestly be thinking globally if you were that position? 

I don't know. But it seems Trump is likely to set you back years. If your goal is progress then why would you want to start off in a worse position? At the end of the day your vote isn't going to change your life but its a tiny bit of influence that you can exert to get an embarrassment out of the White House. I would consider it my patriotic duty.

[Warhippy]

1 hour ago, CBH1926 said:

Same crowd that thinks Biden has no chance believes that Sanders would beat Trump. Its called cognitive dissonance 

The same crowd that knows Biden doesn't stand a chance is the same crowd who also sees the polls showing Biden not so far ahead of trump but sanders polling well ahead.

 

People believe things for a reason

[Warhippy]

7 minutes ago, Toews said:

I don't know. But it seems Trump is likely to set you back years. If your goal is progress then why would you want to start off in a worse position? At the end of the day your vote isn't going to change your life but its a tiny bit of influence that you can exert to get an embarrassment out of the White House. I would consider it my patriotic duty.

The main issue with the DNC right now is that they're not looking further than November.

 

When/If Trump wins a second term.  He will be nominating 2 count em 2 Supreme Court Justices.  This will give in essence the SCOTUS a conservative majority.  Today the SCOTUS is hearing or overseeing the first major challenge to Roe vs Wade in decades out of Louisiana.  

 

Keep things like that in mind.  The upcoming election is no longer about just who will be the POTUS

[JM_]

38 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

I disagree. It's about what you can deliver. That's how progress is made. Having a big posse is cool, but if you can't deliver you're just a guy with a big fan club.

But what's been delivered to the U30 group by both parties? a pretty bleak outlook. 

[JM_]

13 minutes ago, Toews said:

I don't know. But it seems Trump is likely to set you back years. If your goal is progress then why would you want to start off in a worse position? At the end of the day your vote isn't going to change your life but its a tiny bit of influence that you can exert to get an embarrassment out of the White House. I would consider it my patriotic duty.

All Biden and his group are talking about is how important it is to get rid of Trump. All Bernie's followers want is a chance at the life their parents had. I don't see how Biden delivers that when his only focus is beating Trump. 

 

I feel very badly for people U30 in North America, they're really getting screwed over. Patriotism is great but does it really have to cost them this much? 

[Warhippy]

4 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

All Biden and his group are talking about is how important it is to get rid of Trump. All Bernie's followers want is a chance at the life their parents had. I don't see how Biden delivers that when his only focus is beating Trump. 

 

I feel very badly for people U30 in North America, they're really getting screwed over. Patriotism is great but does it really have to cost them this much? 

You can always eat the flag?

[JM_]

Just now, Warhippy said:

You can always eat the flag?

pretty much. When you didn't get ahead under Obama, is it really a surprise that U30s wouldn't be energized by Biden? or care about "beating Trump" as the primary goal. Wasn't that a big part of Hillary's mistake/arrogance? Seems to me like the dem's are lining up for a repeat performance. 

[Warhippy]

3 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

pretty much. When you didn't get ahead under Obama, is it really a surprise that U30s wouldn't be energized by Biden? or care about "beating Trump" as the primary goal. Wasn't that a big part of Hillary's mistake/arrogance? Seems to me like the dem's are lining up for a repeat performance. 

Running on a "we need to beat him" strategy is a piss poor marketing strategy because what happens after?

 

Nothing will change.  Biden has no heart or balls to undo the damage trump caused to major departments and branches of the government.  A lot of his most egregious legislation has helped the dncs wealthiest and most powerful players.

 

Nothing will change under Biden and 4 years later, the gop will win again on the back of a lame duck Biden

[nuckin_futz]

24 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

But what's been delivered to the U30 group by both parties? a pretty bleak outlook. 

There was a fascinating article about a year and a half ago on the 10yr anniversary of the failure of Lehman Brothers called something like "Where are all the Babies?".

 

It was about how the generation who was 20-30 back then got the shaft economically. Wall St got their bailout, everyone's 401k got a bailout, GM got a bailout, The banks all got a bailout. The only ones who were forced to eat a financial sh*t sandwich were the 20-30 set.

 

Now they are saddled with student loan debt, crappy job prospects, live in their parents' basements and do not have children because they cannot afford to. So birth rates tumble which represents an entirely new problem. For the economy to grow you need a growing population.  If they aren't having them you have immigration. Which goes over real well with the WASPY set.

 

So yeah I can totally see why they're attracted to Bernie. But Bernie doesn't have the answers they seek. Bernie's heart is in the right place, but he can't fix this.

Edited March 4, 2020 by nuckin_futz

[JM_]

5 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Running on a "we need to beat him" strategy is a piss poor marketing strategy because what happens after?

 

Nothing will change.  Biden has no heart or balls to undo the damage trump caused to major departments and branches of the government.  A lot of his most egregious legislation has helped the dncs wealthiest and most powerful players.

 

Nothing will change under Biden and 4 years later, the gop will win again on the back of a lame duck Biden

yeah thats pretty much how I see it as well, unless Joe comes out with some kind of new platform or energizing VP. 

 

Sad truth of it tho, he's going to win the nomination due to U30 disillusionment and a rigged voting system. This is why I think online voting reform is the #1 thing we need to see - we need everyone engaged in the process if anything is to change. 

[JM_]

1 minute ago, nuckin_futz said:

There was a fascinating article about a year and a half ago on the 10yr anniversary of the failure of Lehman Brothers called something like "Where are all the Babies?".

 

It was about how the generation who was 20-30 back then got the shaft economically. Wall St got their bailout, everyone's 401k got a bailout, GM got a bailout, The banks all got a bailout. The only ones who were forced to eat a financial sh*t sandwich were the 20-30 set.

 

Now they are saddled with student loan debt, crappy job prospects, live in their parents' basements and do not have children because they cannot afford to. So birth rates tumble which represents an entirely new problem. For the economy to grow you need a growing population. 

If they aren't having them to have immigration. Which goes over real well with the WASPY set.

 

So yeah I can totally see why they're attracted to Bernie. But Bernie doesn't have the answers they seek. Bernie's heart is in the right place, but he can't fix this.

nether can Biden, thats the joke of it. 

 

Well, at least we'll have Trudeau and Peter MacKay to choose from 

[nuckin_futz]

3 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

nether can Biden, thats the joke of it. 

 

Well, at least we'll have Trudeau and Peter MacKay to choose from 

They is a saying that goes "you get the leaders you deserve".

 

People today are all about themselves, no sense of community, fraternity or brotherhood. Or even a sense of family for Pete's sake. Everyone is out for themselves.

 

You reap what you sow. We get what deserve.

[JM_]

10 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

They is a saying that goes "you get the leaders you deserve".

 

People today are all about themselves, no sense of community, fraternity or brotherhood. Or even a sense of family for Pete's sake. Everyone is out for themselves.

 

You reap what you sow. We get what deserve.

thats why I keep harping about online voting, particularly for choosing candidates. We need to get more people, particularly young people, more engaged. 

 

Our system is designed to load us up with as much debt as we can handle, and then just a little bit more. We're debt slaves. No kidding people have to look out for themselves. 

 

Its off topic, but look at the housing situation here. The Liberals let it go crazy, but Horgan has done nothing but kill some equity and kids still don't have good choices, even for rent let alone buy. Same thing in many US cities.