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[Discussion] The time to utilize the cap and fix the forward group is now. CAP explaining and Toroto failure


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I wrote a topic recently arguing that our defence needed to be fixed to create more offence from our forward group. This time around I'm going to argue in favour of acquiring more offence through our forward group by acquiring forwards. The main reason I want to do this is cause I gave my reasons for acquiring Erik Karlsson as a UFA however, getting a UFA that you want is not always realistic or possible when competing with 30 other teams.

This brings me to my first point, acquiring a top forward may not be possible on July first they may not want to come here this is why I believe we need to trade for a forward. Furthermore, paying a top forward 9-10 million for the next 7 years isn't prudent to the cap at this time I will explain. This offseason and in 2 years from now we will have to pay BB is 7ish million which is comparable to those with same goal point production, and EP his 7isn plus which could be more dependent on 3 factors; his improvement over 2 years (luckily for the Canucks cap BB only had 1 year to improve before his extension). 2nd the increase in the cap causing players to ask for more over the next 2 years due to the fact that the roster remains at 23 and only the dollars go up and 3rd the years to come comparables to EP.

So why do these things matter, Simple look at Toronto and you can see exactly what I'm about to explain. There is this ration when dealing with a cap when teams have defined positions in there sport this is not as true for Basketball due to the amount of players and time a player can play in Basketball your top player players in basketball can play almost every minute of the game. But in football and in hockey this ration is very important. I call it the offence to defence ration. There is no specific number or percentage but when you mess it up you can really see it and Toronto is a prime example, they are about to pay there forward group far to much money. Toronto is going to need to trade a forward period it has to happen there is no way around it. So lets consider the Canucks at forward. BH 5.5m BB 7m ish EP 7.0m ish = 19.5 ish million. If we sign a 9-10m ish forward july first lets take 9.5 we are standing at 29m ish dollars per year for 4 forwards. Yes I agree the cap will go up however I'm hoping these are not the only good forwards we have in 2 years.

 

My proposal

 

Canucks 1st round pick (remember it is only pick number 10 over all not 1st 2nd or 3rd overall) for William Nylander and Patrick Marleau. if Marleau agrees to this trade Toronto I believe takes this trade and runs away faster then Usain Bolt LOL. 

 

Why the Canucks Make this trade:

This draft is weak just my opinion, but when the top prospects not including Jack Hughes are from the states and the WHL the draft is weak. First must of the Americans in the top 10 played on Hughes team that just tells me that there stats could be padded. 2nd WHL players take longer to develop there NHL game then top league Euro or OHL players. 3rd there currently are no WHL goalies being consider as most draft in n this years class of goalies. Look at the NHL you will be hard pressed to find a WHL gaoling in the top league, the WHL simply doesn't develop top tier goals. It is one of the reason why I tell people WHL players are not the best NHL first round picks the top WHL players all have the stats padded by the lack of any top goalies in there league. Any good scout would scout top players going up against top goalies in there league and seeing how they fair against them.

 

So my argument is that if we pick a player at #10 we are looking 2-3 years down the road before he develops into an NHL player if he ever does and yet this is exactly what Toronto needs at the moment a player that can replace a roster spot a cheap rate in the future and is not contending for a spot today. 

 

The Canucks need Nylander today because we need someone today to play with BO either BH and BB play together or BH and MN play together either way we need someone. Nylander fits perfect due to the fact he can score but is a playmakers even more which would help BO and his other linemate score more goals and help on the PP as well. There is something inside me that would like to see Nylander play with EP Cause they are very similar type players. With EP shot An WN playmaking abilities I could see EP getting to 40-50 goals. There is no one to feed to EP. BB is a shooter I would call him a pure goal scorer but EP has every tool Playmaker Goal scorer speed Hockey IQ he finds the open area he just doesn't have the playmaker. I will stop here cause this is another discussion altogether. BB needs a EP But EP needs a WN type player.

 

Why we have to Take Marleau, simple the trade cant happen without it Toronto needs cap relieve a tenth pick isn't s certainty but signing Marner would become one.

 

Can the Canucks take on the cap hit, yes I ran it through Capfriendly, however can the Canucks fix there D NO not this year unless they can do it through trade ie. 1 for 1 type thing, when I ran the numbers I had Edler @ 6mill Hutton @ 3mill Sheen @ 1.5mill.

 

Edler  Tanev

Hutton Stecher 

Hughes Sheen

Biega

 

Maybe For next season this doesn't look so bad it is a switch from the beginning of this season a cheap version Gudbransson in Sheen and one that actually throws his body and a new offensive weapon in Hughes. And hopefully better versions of Hutton and Stecher and Healthier Edler and Tanev maybe that's pushing to far :). 

 

Why NYlander is better for the Cap. He is cap friendly for the next 5 years at just under 7 mill. 9.5 mill guy minus Nylanders 7 mill = 2.5 mill after this season to acquire new defence or obtain another top 6 forward.

 

You will always find no matter what proposal I give you one thing will always remain constant  management cant fix all the problems this team faces this season in one trade or one signing. So I would always tell any fan base we must remain patient. However, i would argue there are deals out there that can be and should be made. We the fan base shouldnt have to settle for 2nd teir UFA signings any more.  

 

 

FYI

It was pointed out that I spelled Toronto wrong in the Title I would just like to tell anyone who cares about it I'm keeping it that way I a genuinely nice easy going person, but some people aren't and feel the need to comment on spelling mistakes maybe they are English teachers or Professors. But even English Professors make mistakes in spelling. Maybe these people are mistake free in there life I would tell you to go make a mistake and become human like the rest of us.

 

 

 

Edited by Arrow 1983
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9 minutes ago, onesmallleap said:

1 big problem , if EP even matches his production , he'll be inline for 9-12 mil salary

Which we should be able to afford in 2 years from now many contracts finish up In the next 2 years and I never said we couldn't have a 9-12 mill guy having 2 would be the problem ie. Toronto nest season

 

I would argue a team could have 2 9-12 million guys as long as 1 was on aforward and one was on Defence however it wouldn't work with the Canucks anytime soon as long as LE is making 6mill and we have to take on a contract like Marleau for a year

 

Edited by Arrow 1983
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"The time to utilize the cap and fix the forward group is now. CAP explaining and Toroto failure"

 

Toroto... quick google search =The rumor says that Totoro is the God of Death, so the persons that can seeTotoro are actually close to death, or already dead. What that means for the story is that when Mei goes missing and a sandal is found in the pond, Mei actually drowned

 

im scared

Edited by naslund.is.king
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34 minutes ago, naslund.is.king said:

"The time to utilize the cap and fix the forward group is now. CAP explaining and Toroto failure"

 

Toroto... quick google search =The rumor says that Totoro is the God of Death, so the persons that can seeTotoro are actually close to death, or already dead. What that means for the story is that when Mei goes missing and a sandal is found in the pond, Mei actually drowned

 

im scared

Basically the Leafs franchise 

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Realistically, we will be able to add one more marquee, high salary forward. And the proposal here, is that this player should be William Nylander (unless I've misread the post, in which case, I apologize).

 

I view a core group to consist of 4F2D1G and our rebuild is missing 1F and 1D (although Juolevi should fill it in one or two seasons in my opinion). Since we already have 3F: EP, Boeser, Horvat, that leaves one spot. And who that player is going to be is going to determine if we are going to construct a cup winning core or one that falls short in the playoffs.

 

EP, Boeser, Horvat, Nylander? To me, that lacks balance. It doesn't feel like a cup winning roster. I feel like Nylander is just a poor man's Brock Boeser. Boeser will and can already do everything Nylander can do but better. If our goal is to just make the playoffs and build crazy depth to support the core to win the cup, then sure, Nylander will help your team to get to the playoffs. But to justify that approach, Nylander is paid a bit too much. If he were paid 5 mil, then I'd say that would be a good idea because then, we should be able to fit in another 5 mil player on the roster.

 

I would like that last high salary forward spot to go to someone more feisty and yet skilled. A player that forechecks and wins puck battles, either through physicality, hockey IQ (e.g., positioning), or a bit of both.

 

Ideally, I want that player to be like Mark Stone, Marian Hossa, and I'd hate to say it but, like Brad Marchand (minus the antics). And if we can sign Artemi Panarin, he would do too. He is a  high skilled winger (probably more skill to make plays than Boeser) that is fundamentally different from Boeser as well as the other 2 guys. He gets in on puck battles and wins it quite often. But I think the OP's assumption was that signing a UFA is not realistic.

 

My feeling is that we should wait for the right player to become available, i.e., as Mark Stone became available. We don't have to rush the rebuild and just fill it with a good enough player. Let's get the absolute best player possible. And in the meantime, it gives us time to see who and what 10OA will turn into or if anyone else in the system will surprise. 

 

 

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OP don't worry about the title, Toronto hasn't earned that n.

Do feel like there should be a wall of text warning at the start of these posts.

WN is a lot better player than he showed this year.  Still don't think it is the right move.  We will really need a good cost controlled player coming in in 2-3 years and that is hopefully what the 10 the pic will represent.  This is around the time that a lot of our good young guys will be coming on big raises.

Now generally I am not too worried about the cap.  We have seen time and again that teams under cap stress find a way out or the league lets them off with some shady IR stuff.

Hold on to our assets as JB isn't much better at drafting than trading. 

Build from within and when we really see what this core is, then find the right players to compliment them. 

The exception to this should only be when elite talent hits the market.  Make a play there if it doesn't beggar the team because elite talent is the hardest thing to get in this league. 

Benning has already brought in a very large number of players to create a "soft landing" for our youth, a couple of them even worked out.   With the emergence of EP and the potential of Quinn becoming apparent, it is time to abandon the Benning method of moving marginal players around the margins (the throwing sh!t at the wall and seeing what sticks method).

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First, I can see you put a lot of effort into that post, good job. Second, I am hard pressed to justify giving up our 10th OA pick to do Toronto a favor. Marleau has negative value and Nylander's value is probably below our 10th OA selection. There would need to be more coming from Toronto in order for us to make that deal, IMO anyways. I think the Canucks are better off trying to draft a top 6 forward with the pick, who will come MUCH cheaper, than trying to fill that void with Nylander. Willy Nylander doesn't fill a need for us anyway; we have similar players to him, and frankly, after his playoff performance I don't want to pay 7M/season for what he provided Toronto.

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7 hours ago, onesmallleap said:

1 big problem , if EP even matches his production , he'll be inline for 9-12 mil salary

I'm not so sure JB is going to hand out huge contracts to RFA players unless there's some success behind it.  GM's will be looking at TO as an example of a path to not follow.

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You want to give up a 10th overall for Nylander and have to take Marleau (eventhough theres no way he would damn well waive and move his family to Vancouver).  I would rather gamble on one of the US wingers in the draft and see if they can crack the roster next year.  Nylander is soft and I wouldn't trade him for a 10th overall, I think the guy is going to be a really good player in the league but pulling him off that stacked Leafs roster I think you would see his production fall heavily and not look nearly as dangerous.

 

Also why are you so hell bent on the WHL?  Theres 2 other Canadian divisions, US, and Europe to all pick through so what does banging the drum at the WHL have to do with anything?

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1 hour ago, stawns said:

I'm not so sure JB is going to hand out huge contracts to RFA players unless there's some success behind it.  GM's will be looking at TO as an example of a path to not follow.

Also have to remember agents will follow Toronto and Edmontons model.  And it'll be interesting to see this summer with Rantanen, Point, etc. all needing big contracts right off their ELC to see where the trend is going.  Is it worth alienating star young players and going the Nylander route?

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