Free agency or Trade???

[TheJudge]

Try to get multiple 1rst round picks all in 2 years hopefully top 10. Need bigger defensemen for sure. Need to play puck possession not much dumping as a game plan in playoffs. 

[HOFsedins]

14 hours ago, combover said:

niether build through the draft. Get rid of the vets especially the non productive over priced ones  .. eriksdone sutter ect. 

 

 

This Teams is still to far away from being a Cup contender, just being a playoff contender is settling for medoritcy.

 

I bet you CBJ doesnt agree with you. Or better yet how about all the division leaders?

 

You will eventually need to make trades to better your team. Your whole team cannot be built through the draft. 

[Hindustan Smyl]

No one will agree with my plan, but here is what I would do (cue to the “thank god you’re not the GM” jokes).  It would be a combination of trading, UFA, and drafting.

 

1) Trade our 2019 1st with Sutter, Eriksson, and Schaller to Ottawa for Jean Gabriel Pageau.   The great value of our 1st + the negative value of those other 3 contracts should equate to Pageau.    Either way - we reduce significant cap space and get a half decent asset.

 

2). Solve the issue of our defensive depth in this off season.    We sign two of the following in the off-season:

 

-Gardiner

-Myers

-Stralman

-Jordie Benn

 

Although there are a number of reasons why we haven’t been a playoff team these last 4 years, the biggest reason is due to our lack of quality depth on defense.   

 

Sign Gardiner and Myers, and the Canucks will have atleast 5-6 2nd pairing defensemen on the team.  The Canucks can now trade from a position of strength.

 

Targetting these types of defenseman also allows us to NOT sign any one player for over 10 million......which perhaps give us a chance to get guys like Pettersson and Hughes to take discounts (8.5-8.8 million range?) when their ELC’s expire.

 

3) Trade Hutton for a forward.   Defensemen are a commodity in this league.   If Gudbranson can land Pearson, then Hutton should be able to land a respectable 2nd line forward as well.  

 

4) Move Edler and Tanev when guys like Tryamkin, Woo, and Juolevi are ready to step into the line-up.

 

5) Commit to Markstrom.  Sign him long term. Yes, it’s a risk and a leap of faith, but you have to do this.  Demko can prove his worth as a back-up over the next few years, and then the Canucks can decide what they want to do after that (ie  trade Marky or Demko).   The absolute worst thing the Canucks can do however, is move Markstrom and give the car keys to a Green Demko.   There’s a big difference between being a back-up and being THE guy.

 

6) LTIR Baertschi or move him to clear cap space.  Move him for a low end pick.

 

Virtanen-Pettersson-Boeser

Pearson-Horvat-[Hutton return]

Roussel-Gabriel Pageau-Gaudette

Motte-Beagle-MacEwan

 

Edler-Stecher

Hughes-Tanev

Gardiner-Myers

 

Markstrom

Demko.

 

 

 

[Tomatoes11]

10 hours ago, VancouverHabitant said:

2	31	NY Islanders	Mikko Koskinen	G	Blues [SM-liiga]	59	0	2	2	2	2018-19
2	32	Detroit	Landon Ferraro	C	Red Deer Rebels [WHL]	77	7	5	12	29	2017-18
2	33	Colorado	Ryan O'Reilly	C	Erie Otters [OHL]	733	183	316	499	96	2018-19
2	34	Atlanta	Carl Klingberg	L	Frolunda Jrs. (Sweden)	12	1	0	1	4	2014-15
2	35	Los Angeles	Kyle Clifford	L	Barrie Colts [OHL]	607	54	61	115	774	2018-19
2	36	Phoenix	Chris Brown	C	U.S. National Under-18 Team [Ind]	23	2	1	3	21	2015-16
2	37	Anaheim	Mat Clark	D	Brampton Battalion [OHL]	9	0	1	1	6	2014-15
2	38	Dallas	Alex Chiasson	R	Des Moines Buccaneers [USHL]	454	81	81	162	254	2018-19
2	39	Ottawa	Jakob Silfverberg	R	Brynas Jrs. (Sweden)	492	117	135	252	146	2018-19
2	40	Edmonton	Anton Lander	C	Timra IK [SEL]	215	10	25	35	56	2016-17
2	41	Nashville	Zach Budish	R	Edina H.S. (Minn.)
2	42	Nashville	Charles-Olivier Roussel	D	Shawinigan Cataractes [QMJHL]
2	43	San Jose	William Wrenn	D	U.S. National Under-18 Team [Ind]
2	44	Florida	Drew Shore	C	U.S. National Under-18 Team [Ind]	94	9	17	26	28	2016-17
2	45	Atlanta	Jeremy Morin	L	U.S. National Under-18 Team [Ind]	82	10	12	22	69	2014-15
2	46	Ottawa	Robin Lehner	G	Frolunda Jrs. (Sweden)	265	0	4	4	22	2018-19
2	47	NY Rangers	Ethan Werek	C	Kingston Frontenacs [OHL]
2	48	St. Louis	Brett Ponich	D	Portland Winter Hawks [WHL]
2	49	Colorado	Stefan Elliott	D	Saskatoon Blades [WHL]	87	8	17	25	16	2018-19
2	50	Toronto	Kenny Ryan	R	U.S. National Under-18 Team [Ind]
2	51	Carolina	Brian Dumoulin	D	New Hampshire Jr. Monarchs	319	10	64	74	84	2018-19
2	52	Tampa Bay	Richard Panik	R	Trinec Ocelari HC [Czech]	410	75	84	159	220	2018-19
2	53	Vancouver	Anton Rodin	R	Brynas Jrs. (Sweden)	3	0	1	1	0	2016-17
2	54	New Jersey	Eric Gelinas	D	Lewiston MAINEiacs [QMJHL]	189	14	41	55	92	2016-17
2	55	Washington	Dmitri Orlov	D	Novokuznetsk Metallurg [KHL]	447	33	120	153	169	2018-19
2	56	Columbus	Kevin Lynch	C	U.S. National Under-18 Team [Ind]
2	57	San Jose	Taylor Doherty	D	Kingston Frontenacs [OHL]
2	58	Toronto	Jesse Blacker	D	Windsor Spitfires [OHL]	1	0	0	0	0	2014-15
2	59	Chicago	Brandon Pirri	C	Georgetown Raiders [OJHL]	259	72	47	119	83	2018-19
2	60	Detroit	Tomas Tatar	L	Zvolen HKm [Slovak]	507	144	142	286	180	2018-19
2	61	Pittsburgh	Philip Samuelsson	D	Chicago Steel [USHL]	13	0	0	0	2	2015-16

 

 

There you go Tomatoe, I just picked a draft from 10 years ago and didn't look at any others.  Some good players there no doubt.  Let's see how many players never reached 100 games in the NHL (fizzled out of the league or never made it).  

 

19 out of 30.  So 63% of the 2nd round picks never amounted to nothing.  

 

Would you like to look at the 3rd round?  21 out 30 never stuck around the NHL.  

 

Those are the stats man, you can go and invest all of your earnings into roulette at the casino but the ODDS are that you will lose.  

You are missing the point. The point is casino roulette in no way shape or form would set our rebuild back. We would have no trouble missing the playoffs and picking 6th, 23rd, 5th, 5th, 7th, and 10th if we didn’t piss 2nds and 3rds for no reason. Why not have some chips at the roulette table when what we get for those picks are absolutely irrelevant? 

[Tomatoes11]

10 hours ago, WeneedLumme said:

Yeah, despite the fact that he continues to improve each year, and is likely to be the type of player we need in the playoffs, there are still a lot of posters who are determined to get rid of Jake. If anyone actually wanted to bet that Jake will be gone by next season, I would certainly take that bet, because I really can't see JB trading him.

We need low iq players in the playoffs? 

 

Yes, the goonery level increases in the playoffs but I don’t recall there ever being a regular season bust magically hitting a switch and beasting in the playoffs. These big power forwards that destroy the playoffs still have legit regular seasons. 

 

 

 

 

[Tomatoes11]

6 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

This is not the worst idea I have ever heard.  

 

Hmmmm?

That’s by far the worse idea I ever heard. We are more likely than not going to be a lottery team again.

[Tomatoes11]

1 hour ago, HOFsedins said:

I bet you CBJ doesnt agree with you. Or better yet how about all the division leaders?

 

You will eventually need to make trades to better your team. Your whole team cannot be built through the draft. 

Cbj agrees with him 100%. They don’t want to just make the playoffs. They went all in. They are going to lose Panarin, bobrovksky, Duchene, and dzingel because they didn’t just want to be wildcard and out like we would have 100% been. They are going for the whole thing. 

[Hindustan Smyl]

7 hours ago, Tomatoes11 said:

Cbj agrees with him 100%. They don’t want to just make the playoffs. They went all in. They are going to lose Panarin, bobrovksky, Duchene, and dzingel because they didn’t just want to be wildcard and out like we would have 100% been. They are going for the whole thing. 

I couldn’t agree more as well.

 

Chicago, LA, Boston, Pittsburgh, and Washington all followed this model.  Drafting is the cake, but you need the icing as well.  Signing and trading for players is that icing.  Graham James knows a thing or two about icing as well I believe.

Edited April 28, 2019 by Hindustan Smyl

[WeneedLumme]

7 hours ago, Tomatoes11 said:

We need low iq players in the playoffs? 

 

Yes, the goonery level increases in the playoffs but I don’t recall there ever being a regular season bust magically hitting a switch and beasting in the playoffs. These big power forwards that destroy the playoffs still have legit regular seasons. 

 

 

 

 

15 goals in 70 games, played mostly on the third line, is a bust? If you are serious about that, you are delusional. So what goal production from 70 games of 14:49/game third line minutes would not be a bust?

[aGENT]

Sign a solid, short term stop gap RD like Stralman, trade for a 2nd pair RD like Ceci (cheaper), Ristolainen (more expensive) or some of TBL/CAR right D. Trade Tanev and attempt to get Tryamkin back (which might negate the need for the UFA).

 

Avoid the high end market and the associated prices and target secondary guys like Nelson, Lee, Dzingel etc to fill in our top 6 W hole and eventually replace Baer (whom will hopefully be replaced by this year's 10th OA slotting in above them eventually).

 

And otherwise keep building from the draft. Keep developing.

 

UFA, Pettersson, Boeser

Baer, Horvat, Pearson

Leivo, Gaudette, Virtanen

Motte, Beagle, MacEwan

 

*Roussel on IR

 

Edler, Stecher/trade

Hutton, Stecher/trade

Hughes, UFA/Tryamkin

 

Sautner/Brisebois, Schenn/Biega

Edited April 28, 2019 by aGENT

[mll]

9 hours ago, Hindustan Smyl said:

No one will agree with my plan, but here is what I would do (cue to the “thank god you’re not the GM” jokes).  It would be a combination of trading, UFA, and drafting.

 

1) Trade our 2019 1st with Sutter, Eriksson, and Schaller to Ottawa for Jean Gabriel Pageau.   The great value of our 1st + the negative value of those other 3 contracts should equate to Pageau.    Either way - we reduce significant cap space and get a half decent asset.

 

2). Solve the issue of our defensive depth in this off season.    We sign two of the following in the off-season:

 

-Gardiner

-Myers

-Stralman

-Jordie Benn

 

Although there are a number of reasons why we haven’t been a playoff team these last 4 years, the biggest reason is due to our lack of quality depth on defense.   

 

Sign Gardiner and Myers, and the Canucks will have atleast 5-6 2nd pairing defensemen on the team.  The Canucks can now trade from a position of strength.

 

Targetting these types of defenseman also allows us to NOT sign any one player for over 10 million......which perhaps give us a chance to get guys like Pettersson and Hughes to take discounts (8.5-8.8 million range?) when their ELC’s expire.

 

3) Trade Hutton for a forward.   Defensemen are a commodity in this league.   If Gudbranson can land Pearson, then Hutton should be able to land a respectable 2nd line forward as well.  

 

4) Move Edler and Tanev when guys like Tryamkin, Woo, and Juolevi are ready to step into the line-up.

 

5) Commit to Markstrom.  Sign him long term. Yes, it’s a risk and a leap of faith, but you have to do this.  Demko can prove his worth as a back-up over the next few years, and then the Canucks can decide what they want to do after that (ie  trade Marky or Demko).   The absolute worst thing the Canucks can do however, is move Markstrom and give the car keys to a Green Demko.   There’s a big difference between being a back-up and being THE guy.

 

6) LTIR Baertschi or move him to clear cap space.  Move him for a low end pick.

 

Virtanen-Pettersson-Boeser

Pearson-Horvat-[Hutton return]

Roussel-Gabriel Pageau-Gaudette

Motte-Beagle-MacEwan

 

Edler-Stecher

Hughes-Tanev

Gardiner-Myers

 

Markstrom

Demko.

 

 

 

 

You can't LTIR a player that is healthy - it's CBA circumvention and can cost the team draft picks. Benning in his end of season presser was adamant that Baertschi is fully healthy.  

 

 

[Hindustan Smyl]

3 minutes ago, mll said:

 

You can't LTIR a player that is healthy - it's CBA circumvention and can cost the team draft picks. Benning in his end of season presser was adamant that Baertschi is fully healthy.  

 

 

I think that case, move Baertschi for a pick if possible.  I like Baertschi but his consistent issues with his health is a deal breaker for me.

[higgyfan]

5 minutes ago, Hindustan Smyl said:

I think that case, move Baertschi for a pick if possible.  I like Baertschi but his consistent issues with his health is a deal breaker for me.

I think it would be a deal breaker for other teams as well.  Baer needs to return in good health next season and have a great few months and then maybe another team might make a trade.  It's too bad though, I think Baer could be a valuable top 6 player, but for the injuries. 

[smithers joe]

10 hours ago, TheJudge said:

Try to get multiple 1rst round picks all in 2 years hopefully top 10. Need bigger defensemen for sure. Need to play puck possession not much dumping as a game plan in playoffs. 

multiple top ten picks will cost you, your untouchable players.

Edited April 28, 2019 by smithers joe

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

I think it would be a deal breaker for other teams as well.  Baer needs to return in good health next season and have a great few months and then maybe another team might make a trade.  It's too bad though, I think Baer could be a valuable top 6 player, but for the injuries. 

Totally agree Higgy.  For Baer to be effective he needs to go to the dirty areas.  (I remember Green sitting Baer a couple games to get that message across.).  To Baer’s Credit he did start going to the dirty areas, and was putting up good numbers, while being responsible defensively.  Trouble is with Baer, when he plays the way he has to stay in the lineup, he gets injured.  Very good player, and likeable person.  I just don’t think he’s built for contact.  

[Maniwaki Canuck]

I doubt we'd get a lot for Baer either, and since he's been good when healthy, let's just keep him as part of an increasingly deep group of forwards and let others play up the lineup if and when he's hurt. 

[189lb enforcers?]

Anything for Baer is better than nothing, but as usual, like with Tanev and Sutter, his best before trade-value date has past, all during a rebuild phase yet... 

 

JB hasn’t been very masterful in finding ways to unload broken parts.

 

The mastery is in these several Accidental Tanks which have resulted from depleted rosters of key role players. 

 

He’s missed his chance with SB, no doubt about it. Tanev is another example. 

 

[mll]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Totally agree Higgy.  For Baer to be effective he needs to go to the dirty areas.  (I remember Green sitting Baer a couple games to get that message across.).  To Baer’s Credit he did start going to the dirty areas, and was putting up good numbers, while being responsible defensively.  Trouble is with Baer, when he plays the way he has to stay in the lineup, he gets injured.  Very good player, and likeable person.  I just don’t think he’s built for contact.  

 

He never got injured in the dirty areas though.  Blind sided hits in the neutral zone and puck to the jaw on a clearing attempt. 

 

Green scratched Baertschi only once and it was more a message to the team who was playing poorly.  He had 2 assists the game before and had 4 pts in 4 games when he was sat out.  Daniel Sedin went on to have 5 hits that game he was out of the lineup.  That's atypical.  Green achieved what he wanted and caught the attention of the team which he wouldn't have scratching someone lower in the lineup.

 

[TheJudge]

In each series there has been an aspect where size dominated and won. StLouis has dmen. Carolina jettisoned small players for large. Dallas has a few bid D and big forwards. Sanjose has more bigger forwards than Avalanche forwards, the large Colorado forwards to well the small, not so much.

 

The larger team has won the cup over 90% of the time since 1968, probably more than that only the one Detroit team was smaller in the last 25 years.

 

The team needs more skill and cannot afford to waste time and money right now until they get those skill guys, and those come through the draft. I suppose there are psoters that would like to see the Canucks give up 3 or 4 1rst round picks to get Nylander and Marner. While these are the types of skill the team needs, this team is already too small, way to many under the league average. Thats great for the regular season but not what being played right now

[KyGuy123]

26 minutes ago, TheJudge said:

In each series there has been an aspect where size dominated and won. StLouis has dmen. Carolina jettisoned small players for large. Dallas has a few bid D and big forwards. Sanjose has more bigger forwards than Avalanche forwards, the large Colorado forwards to well the small, not so much.

 

The larger team has won the cup over 90% of the time since 1968, probably more than that only the one Detroit team was smaller in the last 25 years.

 

The team needs more skill and cannot afford to waste time and money right now until they get those skill guys, and those come through the draft. I suppose there are psoters that would like to see the Canucks give up 3 or 4 1rst round picks to get Nylander and Marner. While these are the types of skill the team needs, this team is already too small, way to many under the league average. Thats great for the regular season but not what being played right now

Chicago was a pretty small team when they won. Pittsburgh as well