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Trans individuals are killing female sports


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17 minutes ago, gurn said:

Slow news day:

10 pages devoted to some poster's outrage that 5-10 people in the world are "destroying women's sports".

Irony:  

I don't recall a single one of those posters commenting in any thread devoted to women's sports except this one.

its fascinating tho all the different strings it pulls for people, isn't it? 

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17 minutes ago, gurn said:

I don't recall a single one of those posters commenting in any thread devoted to women's sports except this one.

Who cares?  There is injustice being done here to women.  Should people sit idly by because they don't care about women's sports?  This threatens their education, taking away scholarships. This threatens potential earnings.  This is wrong, and it should be discussed and addressed, regardless of one's level of commitment to women's sports.

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Just now, Kragar said:

Who cares?  There is injustice being done here to women.  Should people sit idly by because they don't care about women's sports?  This threatens their education, taking away scholarships. This threatens potential earnings.  This is wrong, and it should be discussed and addressed, regardless of one's level of commitment to women's sports.

It doesn't.

 

Assuming we are talking about the same type of scholarships (post-secondary, post-graduate, athletic-based, etc), I would say - and I have no evidence or literature to back this up - that I'm fairly certain no person between the ages of 14 - 25 (roughly, the 'typical' school age range) is transitioning for any reason that is separate from their own body/gender/sex dysmorphia.

 

Until the particular women who are involved band among themselves to raise the volume on this issue (perhaps, they already have?) and qualify reasons as to why this is problematic, there is no reason why you, I, or anybody here needs to feel this is an injustice or threatening in any sense.

 

Again, we shouldn't form slopes when there aren't any.

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32 minutes ago, Kragar said:

Who cares?  There is injustice being done here to women.  Should people sit idly by because they don't care about women's sports?  This threatens their education, taking away scholarships. This threatens potential earnings.  This is wrong, and it should be discussed and addressed, regardless of one's level of commitment to women's sports.

This is literally the perfect example of the Oppression Olympics in action.  Identity politics will never end.

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38 minutes ago, Alain Vigneault said:

It doesn't.

 

Assuming we are talking about the same type of scholarships (post-secondary, post-graduate, athletic-based, etc), I would say - and I have no evidence or literature to back this up - that I'm fairly certain no person between the ages of 14 - 25 (roughly, the 'typical' school age range) is transitioning for any reason that is separate from their own body/gender/sex dysmorphia.

 

Until the particular women who are involved band among themselves to raise the volume on this issue (perhaps, they already have?) and qualify reasons as to why this is problematic, there is no reason why you, I, or anybody here needs to feel this is an injustice or threatening in any sense.

 

Again, we shouldn't form slopes when there aren't any.

It's not just scholarships though... it is also earnings, and that is evident by  news posted in this thread.

 

Also, considering the dozens of people charged and being investigated down here for getting kids into top colleges by fraudulent means, the slope is already there.  There are some people that will do whatever it takes to get ahead.  If it hasn't happened yet, it will, as long as the loophole exists.

 

If you read the whole thread, especially an incredibly long post a few pages back, you will see there is noise being made about this by female athletes. IIRC, Navratilova has also spoken out about this, but not sure if that was brought up previously in this thread.

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1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said:

its fascinating tho all the different strings it pulls for people, isn't it? 

How many posts are there in the Trump thread about "lying" about crowd sizes, polling numbers, and the massive misuse of superlatives?

 

Truly fascinating.

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2 minutes ago, Kragar said:

It's not just scholarships though... it is also earnings, and that is evident by  news posted in this thread.

 

Also, considering the dozens of people charged and being investigated down here for greetings kids into top colleges by fraudulent means, the slope is already there.  There are some people that will do whatever it takes to get ahead.  If it hasn't happened yet, it will, as long as the loophole exists.

 

If you read the whole thread, especially an incredibly long post a few pages back, you will see there is noise being made about this by female athletes. IIRC, Navratilova has also spoken out about this, but not sure if that was brought up previously in this thread.

Fair enough.  To me then, I would say that the world has a growing degree of fraudulent people who take advantage of certain categorizations/cultural ideas/political ideas to fulfill their own agenda and get ahead

 

The matter is though that this isn't a trans problem or something that we should blame on the greying of identity politics (even if it does somewhat enable this 'fraud').  This is a problem centred on the individuals who try to take advantage of certain ideas or beliefs held within these phenomena for their own personal gain.  Shame on them.

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2 hours ago, riffraff said:

Possibly did not mean literally physically fighting but who knows

This, To the T is what I was saying..fighting for your right, what you believe in and standing up for yourself..Builds character...Hence why he was my favorite player.

 

 

 

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43 minutes ago, Alain Vigneault said:

Fair enough.  To me then, I would say that the world has a growing degree of fraudulent people who take advantage of certain categorizations/cultural ideas/political ideas to fulfill their own agenda and get ahead

 

The matter is though that this isn't a trans problem or something that we should blame on the greying of identity politics (even if it does somewhat enable this 'fraud').  This is a problem centred on the individuals who try to take advantage of certain ideas or beliefs held within these phenomena for their own personal gain.  Shame on them.

Pretty much, although it might just be a trans problem.  Not that they are to blame, but it's more a situation that is a part of their lives.  

 

And I'm not sure it is an easy fix.  The easy option mentioned in this thread is having a third category, so men compete against men, women against women, and trans against trans.  

 

This simple solution has some easy-to-spot flaws, though.  Do you add a fourth category, so two trans categories, depending on which direction a person is moving towards (apologies in advance if "moving" is not the best word... nothing else comes to mind at the moment), since biologically they are different?  Regardless of adding one or two more categories, who will fund it?  It is obvious that the professional sports dollar already tends to go to male athletes.  Most people want to see the best, and at this point, biology strongly favors males for physical activity.  For the most part, women play second fiddle, and it is usually not even close.  How far a distant third place would trans athletes rank? IMO, the comparatively small number of trans people out there don't suggest there is room for additional pro sports categories... how many people are going to pay to see them compete?  Some will be bigoted and scoff, others will just want to deal with male or female sports, since the much larger pool of athletes means more people with higher skills, making experience more artistic and enjoyable.  Likewise, the costs involved in college sports might make it prohibitive for a separate category.

 

Whatever benefits trans athletes have gained from birth, puberty and/or medication creates an unfair playing field for them in many cases when they compete against women.  Especially if the medication involves a banned substance (no idea whether that is the case, I'm just allowing for the possibility).

 

It would be interesting to see what constructive solutions there are to this situation.  The question for now is whether to let the situation ruin female sports in the meantime.

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The world is changing and there are kinks to obviously be worked out.

 

On the one hand we, as women, strive for equality.  So is this just part of the other side of that?  

 

I do agree that any exploitation of competition that has people gain an advantage will need to be monitored and addressed.   But if someone fully commits to becoming the sex they know they were born as, despite their make up, then all the power to them.  Enjoy reaping the rewards of recognizing who you are and continue to shine in that light.  That's my take.

 

But it's definitely an easy fix with a "new" category.  Done.

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14 hours ago, naslund.is.king said:

are you gonna keep going with your emotion and opinion or actually tackle what 97% of us believe(were taught) is m/f

please man try instead of what your doing

read a book

 

you are no different than the racists of the '50s

 

e: at least some of them were able to present actual arguments, lol. you have still shared nothing to justify your initial claim.

 

you CANNOT make value judgments purely from empirical inquiry. how do you not understand this?

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For the sake of categorizations, a trans league/association 'works'

 

Though, I don't think any trans person would actually lobby for that.  It would easily invalidate their whole transition in the first place because it essentially says 'you are not a real man/woman'

 

At the root fo it all, nobody says anything to athletes like Abby Wambach, Serena Williams, etc about their genetic makeup and how it factors into their performance against other women.  Therefore, the issue isn't trans women blowing away the competition.

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15 hours ago, Generational.EP40 said:

 

olympics kobe GIF

Languages that do not distinguish between gender and sex, say hello. Oh, did i say those languages arnt 'quaint'- they are older and outnumber the ones who do differentiate between gender and sex ? 

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6 minutes ago, Alain Vigneault said:

For the sake of categorizations, a trans league/association 'works'

 

Though, I don't think any trans person would actually lobby for that.  It would easily invalidate their whole transition in the first place because it essentially says 'you are not a real man/woman'

 

At the root fo it all, nobody says anything to athletes like Abby Wambach, Serena Williams, etc about their genetic makeup and how it factors into their performance against other women.  Therefore, the issue isn't trans women blowing away the competition.

You are probably correct regarding their reaction.  That isn't my concern.

 

At least Wambach (I presume... I don't remember hearing her name until now) and Williams, or Michael Phelps for that matter, are competing on a fair playing field.  They do have an edge due to how their bodies were born and developed naturally.  Going through trans surgery and/or hormone therapy is not natural.  If nature is the way to go, then self-identification is not a factor.  And we all know how well that will go over.

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15 hours ago, I.Am.Ironman said:

Blaming this on language as your main argument point is not scientific backing.

It does and you provide it in the very next segment.

15 hours ago, I.Am.Ironman said:

Oh and the WHO disagrees with you: https://www.who.int/gender-equity-rights/understanding/gender-definition/en/  Gender refers to the socially constructed characteristics of women and men – such as norms, roles and relationships of and between groups of women and men. It varies from society to society and can be changed. While most people are born either male or female, they are taught appropriate norms and behaviours – including how they should interact with others of the same or opposite sex within households, communities and work places. When individuals or groups do not “fit” established gender norms they often face stigma, discriminatory practices or social exclusion – all of which adversely affect health. It is important to be sensitive to different identities that do not necessarily fit into binary male or female sex categories.

1. Thank you for proving that gender is not a scientifically valid or measurable term. Its a social construct of SOME societies. 

2. Thats the European language distinction. There are plenty of laguages where male == man and female == woman. I can cite scientific literature in those languages. Ergo, while gender may be the social role assigned to a sex, in languages where there are no gender terminologies distinguishable from sex, its terminologies differ and makes sense to differ. If man = male, then you cannot have a trans-man or trans-woman.

 

15 hours ago, I.Am.Ironman said:

 

https://www.who.int/reproductivehealth/topics/sexual_health/sh_definitions/en/ "Sex refers to the biological characteristics that define humans as female or male. While these sets of biological characteristics are not mutually exclusive, as there are individuals who possess both, they tend to differentiate humans as males and females."

And what proof do you have that it was political pressure and not just a change in stance due to scientific progression and a better understanding of the condition. The WHO recategorized it from a mental illness to a sexual health condition in 2018.. I copied and pasted this from an article at the time that happened: https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/20/health/transgender-people-no-longer-considered-mentally-ill-trnd/index.html

Sure. WHO article is in English. find me one addressed to the Mandarin, Hindi, Tamil, Arab populace, etc. And if you do, you will find that the term used for 'sex' and 'gender' in all these languages, is the same damn term. 

15 hours ago, I.Am.Ironman said:

Being transgender is no longer classified as a mental illness by the World Health Organization – a key sign of progress for an often-marginalized community.  

A key sign of politics is all it says - whether the argument is for or against it being a mental illness, this move, is a political one by a political body. 

 

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