I.Am.Ironman Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 42 minutes ago, Generational.EP40 said: I’m hoping people are mature enough to not take offense and get the point what’s being said. (removed joe rogan links for space) /thread. You can’t convince science/biological facts as to being wrong. It’s a disgrace. Make a transgender section or don’t compete at all with a clear cheating advantage. You can't claim to be all about the scientific facts then post joe rogan clips as your reference. I love the JRE as much as the next guy but he isn't a scientist or expert in the field, he is a comedian. He has some great guests on his show but the links you posted have an ex UFC fighter (Schaub) and a fellow comedian in Bryan Callen - again, hardly quality references and hardly an "/thread". You are entitled to have your opinion and position in this debate but at least back up your statements with something of quality. I am surprised Shapiro hasn't made his way into your argument yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancaster Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 Transgender people tend to have suicide rates as high as anyone with untreated psychological illness. Whether it's due to them already with mental illness or just they are treated by others and thus end up suicidal, I don't believe there's enough data on that. That being said, people can do whatever they wish as long as it's legal. As for the transgender in women's sports..... I remember reading a phrase along the lines of, "Men are so vastly superior to women that they also dominate in women's sports and even in women's beauty pageants". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naslund.is.king Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Whaleroad Train said: So what gender is someone who has XXY chromosomes? or XXXY? or XXYY? or XXX? or XXXX? or XXXXX? What Gender is X with a blank? Y with a blank? Also what gender is someone born with AIS? The human being is one hell of a lot more complicated than you have been taught in High school Biology class I'm afraid. wow...please share with us how the basic understanding of genetics,sex and gender universally is wrong..if so our education system needs serious help. Edited May 12, 2019 by naslund.is.king I wonder if 1+1 is actually one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master 112 Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 5 hours ago, naslund.is.king said: Normalizing mental illness You don't understand psychiatry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilduce39 Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 3 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: yeah I saw that, that was a bomber hissy fit. For sure there is a discussion that needs having on sport, its not like its a person applying for a regular job, e.g. Sport is probably the one of the few, maybe only, area where you could build an argument for exclusion, but it would have to be done with some care. Maybe some sports open to any athletes is the best way to go? dunno. Yeah, it’s tough to know where to start since it’s such a complex issue. There’s the differentiation in ages and between rec sports and sports with money and scholarships attached to them.... the impact of hormone therapy and gender reassignment surgery vs the advantage of being born genetically “male”.. it’s a lot to digest. Also, as someone involved in a few different youth sports in BC, I’ve never heard or witnessed an issue with this yet. I have a fairly strong suspicion a few instances are being cherry picked and broadcast as “killing female sports” for a bit of fearmongering. Plus, honestly, give the girls some credit. The average championship-caliber high school / collegiate female athlete isn’t someone you can just roll out of bed and beat in their chosen sport just because you were born with a wang. If trans athletes are winning it’s because they’re putting in a lot of time and effort to train. It’s not just a “hey I want to win so I’ll compete as a girl” situation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckistani Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 5 hours ago, Down by the River said: There is no doubt an issue with biological males competing in female sports, but I have a hard time believing that male athletes are so intent on being successful that they are willing to put on women's clothes and claiming that they are trans just to set some records. Can be especially skeptical if they suddenly switch back after they retire. But until that happens, I think it is more of an issue of clarifying that anyone competing in a woman's event must be biologically female. Not just to set some records, but have the ability to make crap ton of money via sports and sports sponsorships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naslund.is.king Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 Just now, 112 said: You don't understand psychiatry. You don't understand basic science and genetics 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master 112 Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 Just now, naslund.is.king said: You don't understand basic science and genetics No--really. You're completely misguided. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master 112 Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 Just now, naslund.is.king said: You don't understand basic science and genetics Here, some light reading: https://forlackofsomegoodwriting.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/susan-stryker-and-stephen-whittle-eds-the-transgender-studies-reader.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckistani Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 3 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said: if you bothered to check the scientific thinking on trans issues you'd see that it doesn't agree with you. And that other stuff is just silly. Science does agree with the notion that gender dysphoria is a clinical condition, aka an illness. POLITICS don't agree with that, which is why its the political bodies that have changed that to normalize this stuff. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naslund.is.king Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 1 minute ago, 112 said: No--really. You're completely misguided. plz go ahead and prove me wrong It is physiologically impossible to change someone sex, the sex of each individual is encoded in the genes—XX if female, XY if male. Surgery can only create the appearance of the other sex sexual identity is on every cell of the body and can be determined through DNA testing. It cannot be changed. Please though tell me otherwise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master 112 Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 Just now, naslund.is.king said: plz go ahead and prove me wrong It is physiologically impossible to change someone sex, the sex of each individual is encoded in the genes—XX if female, XY if male. Surgery can only create the appearance of the other sex sexual identity is on every cell of the body and can be determined through DNA testing. It cannot be changed. Please though tell me otherwise What does this have to do with psychopathology? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naslund.is.king Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 Just now, 112 said: Here, some light reading: https://forlackofsomegoodwriting.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/susan-stryker-and-stephen-whittle-eds-the-transgender-studies-reader.pdf Im not reading 770 pages if thats your attempt to prove me wrong lets be real 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Am.Ironman Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 29 minutes ago, nux4lyfe said: We live in a world where media promotes this kind of crap, d emasculating men Ala Gillette commercial , Promoting the LGBTAFGLMNOP community left and right..and it's becoming socially acceptable..I am worried for our future. If you think that commercial emasculated men your masculinity is extremely fragile. That commercial said nothing about decreasing the masculinity of men but to teach our kids to be nice to each other and treat others equally and with respect... seems like a good message to preach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckistani Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 3 hours ago, I.Am.Ironman said: I think the problem this has created in sport is that people aren't distinguishing between gender and sex. People jump to conclusions because they think the terms are synonymous which they aren't. The area of sport and how the transgender issue pertains to it is complicated because in sport there is so much physical ability involved. Physical ability that is generally more abundant in the male sex. The hormonal therapy and individualistic responses to such treatment further complicates the picture and likely benefits certain individuals receiving such therapy. In other aspects of life the playing field is more or less even so it is more of a social/moral/ideological issue - generally more gender based (identifying etc) because there are not a lot of clear (dis)advantages of one sex or the other. There is no difference between gender and sex. The only languages where such distinction exists, are crappy European languages, which are far, far inferior to most of the languages of the world, its not even funny. In Arabic, mandarin, most Indian languages, the term sex and gender- even in scientific parlayance ( and in some of those languages, the formal speak is hell of a lot more formal than in European languages), is the same damn word. So to me, this whole tolerance/intolerance/identity etc thing is just laughable - its product of a crap language, from one of the crappiest branches of the language trees i can think of. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilduce39 Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, canuckistani said: Science does agree with the notion that gender dysphoria is a clinical condition, aka an illness. POLITICS don't agree with that, which is why its the political bodies that have changed that to normalize this stuff. You’ll need to point me to the current “science” that says transgenderism is an “illness” which suggests that it’s something to be cured. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riffraff Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 28 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said: I like it. No winner is better option though.. Winnings sounds like such an outdated concept. Such exclusionary of a term..... Just give every athlete a participation sticker / badge. Play all 128 various national anthems at the awards / participation sticker awards event. Make it a montage of all 128 countries anthems... Instead of 3 tier medal podium... YOu go with a one level bench... 25 meters long ... so all athletes can stand on it at the same time and get their stickers... of participation. And everyone pees in a trough. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckistani Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 1 minute ago, ilduce39 said: You’ll need to point me to the current “science” that says transgenderism is an “illness” which suggests that it’s something to be cured. The science papers as recently as two years ago ( when transgenderism was removed from the WHO list of illnesses due to political pressure) are pretty conclusive on this, the science has not changed in its scope or outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master 112 Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 5 minutes ago, naslund.is.king said: Im not reading 770 pages if thats your attempt to prove me wrong lets be real If you haven't read one book on the subject, why are you coming in here like you're some sort of authority on it? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master 112 Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 3 minutes ago, canuckistani said: There is no difference between gender and sex. The only languages where such distinction exists, are crappy European languages, which are far, far inferior to most of the languages of the world, its not even funny. In Arabic, mandarin, most Indian languages, the term sex and gender- even in scientific parlayance ( and in some of those languages, the formal speak is hell of a lot more formal than in European languages), is the same damn word. So to me, this whole tolerance/intolerance/identity etc thing is just laughable - its product of a crap language, from one of the crappiest branches of the language trees i can think of. Oriental languages are, imo, superior in speech. European languages are far better in writing. But all have their strengths. Don't let your biases inform bad opinions, and don't speak bad opinions like they're fact. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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