[Proposal] Vancouver & Edmonton and Off season Plan

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

I'd be willing to move Sutter for less anyway. I agree that Sutter could be a good fit for the Oilers, but I doubt they move Bouchard simply because he won't be with the big club next year. It would be best for Bouchard to be developed for a year in the AHL (get a few looks in the regular season for injuries and what not) rather than be rushed into the NHL anyway. I imagine they would try to move on from Russell first when it comes to it. If Bouchard wins a spot out of camp, Benning would be movable for them for a pick or another player of similar age in a different position of need.

I agree on the development part, I'd want him to be in Utica for most of the year if not all. 

 

I just think the knives will be out and no GM is going to do Holland any favours. Sutter gives them a nice stabilizing 3C which they really need. I don't see many teams able to offer that up to them, certainly not for a bargain and they can't go to free agency for it, they don't have the cap space. 

[Seannnp]

7 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

Well I don't see any of Byram, Dach, or Cozens falling to 8, but you never know. Perhaps this would be the type of deal you have in place if somehow one of those guys did fall that far. If you like Newhook, well if management agrees, then I think he could be had at 10 anyway. So all we don't gain is the rest of the deal, which IMO isn't enough for what we would have to take on.

 

The thing with Virtanen is he's starting to round out his game defensively. His size and speed make him effective in being capable of shutting down some of the best in the league (although not there yet). This is the aspect that cannot be overlooked by just points alone. Virtanen has been increasing his offensive output every year so far and should have something to prove with next season being the end of his bridge contract. Puljujarvi unfortunately looks lost out there and that could be attributed to the Oilers factor. He now needs to be developed in the NHL with the waiver aspect which simply takes away some of his value. If he ever blossoms (much like if Virtanen does), then of course it could be promising. But like I said, we are taking on the full negative of Lucic, so the stakes are much higher for us for this to be a mistake than if it pans out. We would still have to deal with the Lucic situation even if Puljujarvi starts trending upwards with us (and thus also adding to the future cap issues).

 

It will depend on if there is a target available in the 22-26 region (say if Seider somehow falls here), but I agree that would be where we would be trading up to if we did decide to make that move. I would likely just keep both 2nds though because I think when it gets to that region, it really becomes a crapshoot and there can be many gems in the 2nd round anyway.

The final rankings are still to come out and Newhook could make it to the top 10. Caufield is in the top 5 now because of one tournament. Petey was ranked 7-10, we could've traded down and got an additional asset and I think we tried but eventually we took him with out 5th. Just because Newhook is ranked 10th doesn't necessarily mean he cant go earlier. Maybe he is in the top 8 for all the other teams on thier draft boards despite the rankings which means he wont be available at 10. The move to the 8th give us more options which I think can be huge when you have a tier of players between 6-10 that could go anywhere, otherwise at 10 you get stuck with that last player available in that tier. Hope that made sense.

 

I love Virtanen and definitely would not move him given his improvment. Virtanen has been increasing his output every year and has had an additional year to do so as well. Pujujlarvi has already attained that offensive production without the extra year playing on a team like the Oilers. I think Travis was instrumental in Virtanens development and feel he could be the same for Pool.

 

Do you propose we stay away from Lucic all together or that we try to get more out of this deal? The deal has to work for both sides and Im not willing to leave Pool, moving up two spots and an additional 2nd, which you said yourself could net us a gem (Woo, Madden, etc) just because they wont give us a little more as in my personal opinion I think the value is pretty darn close. We can figure out the waiver thing and cap issues when we get there. I have yet to see any team crumble under the cap. There has always been a way to get the needed cap relief. In our situation taking on an additional 6 million isn't a lot of cap to move. I think the only cap relief deal that was questionable was when Chicago traded away Panarin or something.

 

If we could get Holland to bite on 8th OA and Lucic for whatever, I'm all for it - I just don't think this will happen so I put forward an alternative.

[JeremyCuddles]

No thanks, I said it before our time to weaponize cap space was like 2 seasons ago. Lucic has too much term and he's complete trash. Pool party at this rate is lucky to be half as effective Virtanen. Newhook could very likely be around at 10 and if not, Krebs, Boldy, Podkolzin or another really good forward should be around.

 

And honestly I don't even think Edmonton would bite on this. Similarly to us with Virtanen they likely don't want to trade Pool party and risk him achieving his draft potential. If your first move is trading Pool party to get rid of Lucic's contract and he breaks out as a 20-30 goal scorer your career is effectively done. If they are trading him it better be for a legit roster player (top 6), not to find someone to take Lucic's contract.

[Seannnp]

14 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Don't see EDM wanting to move him (and I don't particularly want him).

 

Don't see that. It's a HUGE anchor of a contract/player. They're going to have to PAY to move that or they're going to have to buy him out (which doesn't really help with his cap hit much but would get them out of protecting him for the ED. If Holland is going to actually transform the Oilers, dumping that contract is job one.

 

And big fat NO on moving up to 8th in the draft. The players available at 8 are basically the same tier as the ones available at 10. There's almost zero value to it.

 

By all means I'm more than open to adding 8th OA (and Puljujarvi for that matter) in something involving taking back Lucic, retaining on Sutter and even taking back cap in Russel/Sekera/Manning though.

 

I'd happily take him back if it's part of getting 8th + Puljujarvi (along with Lucic ). He'd cover our need for a short term, UFA right D and his contract expires just as Hughes/Pettersson need raises. Excellent fit in fact. Would largely depend on whether he'd waive to here.

I just don't think they will move those type of assets for the Lucic contract. I think for Holland the 8th OA is a non-starter. They need help in the wings and they could potentially have someone that could end up a mainstay in their lineup the year after next like Boldy or Zegras. Holland would be more ready to add multiple 2nds then to give up a top pick. Maybe that's what needs to be added - and additional pick.

 

Ironically, no one wants to take on the Lucic contract but youre willing to take on Lucic and Sekera (11million). I'm not against it if we could get 8th AND Pool but again I just don't seen the oiler wanting to do it. We want what we want, but that doesn't necessarily equal what Edmonton wants to give up.

[aGENT]

3 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I agree on the development part, I'd want him to be in Utica for most of the year if not all. 

 

I just think the knives will be out and no GM is going to do Holland any favours. Sutter gives them a nice stabilizing 3C which they really need. I don't see many teams able to offer that up to them, certainly not for a bargain and they can't go to free agency for it, they don't have the cap space. 

Speaking of free agency, I wonder what fans would think of, if rather than spending much/any money in free agency, this is how Benning chose to 'spend' his cap space?

 

Even if that meant not moving Eriksson (if we're unable to) and have to waive him (and possibly Lucic) to Utica. Would fans be ok spending that cap space to acquire

an additional top 10 pick, Puljujarvi and say Russel? We likely wouldn't have a lot left to sign any big UFA's after that...

[aGENT]

1 minute ago, Seannnp said:

but that doesn't necessarily equal what Edmonton wants to give up.

But then EDM can pound sand dwelling in futility and mediocrity for a couple more years until McD demands a trade. 

[Seannnp]

3 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Speaking of free agency, I wonder what fans would think of, if rather than spending much/any money in free agency, this is how Benning chose to 'spend' his cap space?

 

Even if that meant not moving Eriksson (if we're unable to) and have to waive him (and possibly Lucic) to Utica. Would fans be ok spending that cap space to acquire

an additional top 10 pick, Puljujarvi and say Russel? We likely wouldn't have a lot left to sign any big UFA's after that...

I think a Lucic deal is entirely dependant on us moving out cap space from the current roster. Whether its Eriksson, Sutter, Granlund, moving on from Edler, Tanev, Baertschi. We only do the Lucic deal if we can move 3-6 million in cap space. That would be the precautionary approach that I would take to plan ahead for Petey and Hughes whilst still taking on Lucic and everything that would come with him.

[aGENT]

3 minutes ago, Seannnp said:

Ironically, no one wants to take on the Lucic contract but youre willing to take on Lucic and Sekera (11million). I'm not against it if we could get 8th AND Pool but again I just don't seen the oiler wanting to do it. 

We'd be sending cap back in that scenario (Sutter, no retention) and Sekera expires at the same time as Sutter.

[Seannnp]

2 minutes ago, aGENT said:

But then EDM can pound sand dwelling in futility and mediocrity for a couple more years until McD demands a trade. 

Unless we make some major moves I think we are going to be mediocre for at least another year or so as well. Why not give to get and take chance on improving this roster so that we can finally be done with this rebuild.

 

The Lucic deal isn't an ideal situation but I'm sure if a deal were to be had, it would return us approxiomately what I have proposed. Its upto Benning to ensure the cap space is there now, next year, and the year after that. Also his responsibility to ensure the NMC is disqualified. The Lucic deal will take a great deal of planning but I personally would like to see it done.

 

If we cant get the 8th OA, maybe we ask them to add another 3rd round pick (Benning can likely find a gem in the 3rd like Madden) 

 

Lucic, Pool, 1st in 2019, 2nd in 2019, 3rd in 2019

 

for Sutter (50%) and 10th OA

[Seannnp]

7 minutes ago, aGENT said:

We'd be sending cap back in that scenario (Sutter, no retention) and Sekera expires at the same time as Sutter.

If the Oilers want to give us Sekera for Sutter (no retention) tell me where to sign. In any scenario, I just don't see Holland giving up a top pick the first few weeks into his job.

Edited May 14, 2019 by Seannnp

[Agoork]

I'd love to see JB weaponize our cap space.   Lucic is a tough sell though. 4 years at $6 million and a NMC is not gonna happen. One condition would have to be that the NMC gets annulled, and we'd have to get a real incentive on top of that to make a trade.   I have no idea what a FAIR value is - there are lots of different opinions on that - but if it included their #8 pick without us sending our #10 pick back, then it starts sounding a lot more interesting.  Having pick #8 and pick #10 would be huge - we'd get 2 top prospects, or could try to move up to get Byram. 

 

Lucic, #8 + a good prospect would be a nice return, but what would we send that would make the trade accepted by and beneficial to both sides???   I could certainly see Sutter as a part of the trade. Is Sutter enough on his own?  Sutter at 50% retained (2 years, so it's no problem for our cap situation)?   Add a 4th round pick?   or do we need to throw in some other cap space like Schaller or Spooner?  Just spit balling....  Anyway, if the Oilers were willing to include pick #8, I'd certainly look into it.

[JM_]

15 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Speaking of free agency, I wonder what fans would think of, if rather than spending much/any money in free agency, this is how Benning chose to 'spend' his cap space?

 

Even if that meant not moving Eriksson (if we're unable to) and have to waive him (and possibly Lucic) to Utica. Would fans be ok spending that cap space to acquire

an additional top 10 pick, Puljujarvi and say Russel? We likely wouldn't have a lot left to sign any big UFA's after that...

leave out Russel and maybe. 

 

I'm not convinced that we'd have to waive either player, assuming Looch gets inspired to play again. 

 

Lucic-Petey-Brock

Peaerson-Bo-Loui 

 

could be viable for a year maybe.... ugh. 

 

Whatever happens Holland has zero leverage, so he's the one that has to overpay. Taking both Lucic and Russel makes us the over-payer I think. Thats why I was looking at something more self contained like a 1 for 1 deal.

[aGENT]

15 minutes ago, Seannnp said:

Unless we make some major moves I think we are going to be mediocre for at least another year or so as well. Why not give to get and take chance on improving this roster so that we can finally be done with this rebuild.

 

The Lucic deal isn't an ideal situation but I'm sure if a deal were to be had, it would return us approxiomately what I have proposed. Its upto Benning to ensure the cap space is there now, next year, and the year after that. Also his responsibility to ensure the NMC is disqualified. The Lucic deal will take a great deal of planning but I personally would like to see it done.

 

If we cant get the 8th OA, maybe we ask them to add another 3rd round pick (Benning can likely find a gem in the 3rd like Madden) 

 

Lucic, Pool, 1st in 2019, 2nd in 2019, 3rd in 2019

 

for Sutter (50%) and 10th OA

We're coming out of a rebuild, we're supposed to be mediocre.

 

We're holding all the leverage in a potential Lucic deal. We're one of the few teams with cap space to take him on. He's expressed interest in coming back here and has an NMC (basically dictating where he's willing to go). His contract is AWFUL and all but buyout proof and they'd need to protect in the ED. EDM has no cap space. EDM needs to get more competitive FAST before McD wants out. 

 

I think you under estimate how much that's going to cost them. We're not going to do them any favours out of the kindness of our hearts. But by all means I'm happy to take the chance on improving us FOR THE RIGHT RETURN. 

 

Taking Lucic alone is going to cost them 8th OA (or equivalent). If they want to dump additional cap (Russell etc) or have us retain on Sutter, the cost goes up from there.

Edited May 14, 2019 by aGENT

[aGENT]

4 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

leave out Russel and maybe. 

 

I'm not convinced that we'd have to waive either player, assuming Looch gets inspired to play again. 

 

Lucic-Petey-Brock

Peaerson-Bo-Loui 

 

could be viable for a year maybe.... ugh. 

 

Whatever happens Holland has zero leverage, so he's the one that has to overpay. Taking both Lucic and Russel makes us the over-payer I think. Thats why I was looking at something more self contained like a 1 for 1 deal.

Lucic will not be playing with Pettersson and Boeser. Get over it. He'd probably be a 12th/13th F.

 

And yeah, I'm only taking on  Russel for additional assets and/or as an alternative to retaining on Sutter.

Edited May 14, 2019 by aGENT

[IBatch]

Really?  We are helping them way more then ourselves.   We get a loser in Puljajarvi, a huge anchor in Lucic just to move up two spots and get their second pick?  Ok that’s a bit harsh but not too far from the truth.  I’d much rather do what HinduSmyl suggested which is trade our tenth plus LE,  for Lucic and Bouchard.  We won’t get a player as good as him with out 10th and he’d be an upgrade on the season opener.    Not that EDM would do that.   

 

This draft more than any the past couple years doesn’t matter at all if we pick 5-12.  Any of those guys could end up becoming the fifth best guy in a re-draft. There is three tiers.  Hughes and Kakko, then Byram, Dach and Cozens who are just above the next eight or so guys.  It doesn’t make sense at all to move up unless the cost is very small.

 

AND there is NO away EDM or anyone else in our division considers a trade like this.  We just don’t do medium to big trades within our division.  Let go of this EDM fetish.  Steve Staois is probably the biggest trade we’ve ever made, which back then was a smaller trade then today trading Hutton. 

[JM_]

5 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Lucic will not be playing with Pettersson and Boeser. Get over it. He'd probably be a 12th/13th F.

 

And yeah, I'm only taking on  Russel for additional assets and/or as an alternative to retaining on Sutter.

get over it  no I demand it. 

 

I dunno, I really don't see Milan fitting in anywhere else, not on the bottom 6, not on the PP, or PK. If he can't fit on the top 6 we shouldn't trade for him at any price. 

[aGENT]

2 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

get over it  no I demand it. 

 

I dunno, I really don't see Milan fitting in anywhere else, not on the bottom 6, not on the PP, or PK. If he can't fit on the top 6 we shouldn't trade for him at any price. 

 

9 minutes ago, aGENT said:

He'd probably be a 12th/13th F.

 

Honestly, I'd only see him playing with injuries or subbing in against heavier/slower teams. Him and Motte can swap  

 

Playing COL = Motte

Playing ANA = Lucic

 

The reason you trade for him is the sweetener, not the player. PRECISELY why EDM is going to need to PAY to dump him.

[JM_]

5 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

 

Honestly, I'd only see him playing with injuries or subbing in against heavier/slower teams. Him and Motte can swap  

 

Playing COL = Motte

Playing ANA = Lucic

 

The reason you trade for him is the sweetener, not the player. PRECISELY why EDM is going to need to PAY to dump him.

true, I just dont want to see 10 million for 2 years in meh players for the 8th oa. And then watch the Oilers beat us to the playoffs. 

 

[aGENT]

Just now, Jimmy McGill said:

true, I just dont want to see 10 million for 2 years in meh players for the 8th oa. And then watch the Oilers beat us to the playoffs. 

 

 

20 minutes ago, aGENT said:

And yeah, I'm only taking on  Russel for additional assets and/or as an alternative to retaining on Sutter.

 

[6string]

                                                                             Seannnp, I'm sorry but....