[Discussion] PK Subban to Vancouver might make sense

[JM_]

2 hours ago, mll said:

Toronto was interested in Ellis.  Nylander has struggled in the playoffs and Nashville needs guys who won't disappear in the post-season.

true, but i wonder if they feel like the could surround him with players that can compensate for that? hard to say, I don't know that there's going to be a big market for PK.

[N7Nucks]

5 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Interesting how some people still believe PK Subban is elite and that he could be a positive part of a "team".   Drama follows this dude around as does a game that has eroded to the point where his underlying stats are "ok" (his OIGF and OIGA stats continue in wrong direction per 60) but his hits/game and points/game continue to slide which are the two key things this kind of player needs to bring.   Given where the Canucks are in the rebuild process, a Trouba would make waaaaaaay more sense.

Why cause a bunch of old white guys have a problem with his antics? I haven't heard one bad thing about him from coaches or teammates. He donated a crap ton of money to charity. His game, yes it was pretty average at best but to say he is bad to have around or he causes drama because Montreal management/coaching staff had a problem with him and Carey Price having a signature high fight is pretty absurd. 

[Rob_Zepp]

Just now, N7Nucks said:

Why cause a bunch of old white guys have a problem with his antics? I haven't heard one bad thing about him from coaches or teammates. He donated a crap ton of money to charity. His game, yes it was pretty average at best but to say he is bad to have around or he causes drama because Montreal management/coaching staff had a problem with him and Carey Price having a signature high fight is pretty absurd. 

The players in the room are old white guys?   I will admit most of the NHL doesn't scream racial diversity but seems tad harsh dude.   As far as not hearing "one bad thing from him or coaches" have you been living in a cave?   I guess "bad" is relative but many would like him to tone it down, be less of a focus and to simply make it team first.   He has had the buzz since he broke into the league.   Just rubs some guys the wrong way.    

 

What old white guys to you refer to if not the players?   I wasn't aware of anything other then the game personnel buzz.

[IBatch]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

 PK is pretty much a cap dump, and you have us giving up prime assets for him!

Just No.

i don’t want anything to do with PK on our team.  There’s a very good reason too.

 

PK  is no longer a top defenseman and his reign was short and arguably stolen (his Norris).   If anyone is interested dig a little and you will find that Weber is a much better defenseman.   And he’s no longer at or near the top either (although I’d bet he could still have a great season or two left in him).  Subban is overrated, always has been, MTL figured it out and made a smart trade.  I want nothing to do with him, sure he’s pretty good, but he’s not as good as he thing he is and not worth what it would cost to get him or the cap hit.   If he was a UFA I’d still pass and rather have Duchene, Panarin, EK or Skinner.  Subban can go pick out suits and enjoy his multi millionaire lifestyle somewhere else thank you.

[N7Nucks]

1 minute ago, Rob_Zepp said:

The players in the room are old white guys?   I will admit most of the NHL doesn't scream racial diversity but seems tad harsh dude.   As far as not hearing "one bad thing from him or coaches" have you been living in a cave?   I guess "bad" is relative but many would like him to tone it down, be less of a focus and to simply make it team first.   He has had the buzz since he broke into the league.   Just rubs some guys the wrong way.    

 

What old white guys to you refer to if not the players?   I wasn't aware of anything other then the game personnel buzz.

To clarify, I wasn't saying "old white guys" as they are racist. I am saying that they are boring. Subban is bombastic, exciting, and in your face. Everyone likes the old school, soft spoken guys of the old days. Subban's not a problem in terms of drama cause he celebrates super enthusiastically or has fun high fives with teammates. The only real argument against Subban is his play. He's 30, D-men either age well or they fall off cliffs. His play this season was very poor and for a 9mil price tag it's a risk. But I don't see a problem with him as far as antics. He's not a cheapshot artist, I don't think he's an ego maniac and only cares about his numbers. I think he is a team guy and well liked by teammates. I don't think there should be any question about his character. Also, pretty much the entire Nashville team played average at best this season. Subban is not alone as a guy that had a subpar year in Nashville.

[Rob_Zepp]

4 minutes ago, N7Nucks said:

To clarify, I wasn't saying "old white guys" as they are racist. I am saying that they are boring. Subban is bombastic, exciting, and in your face. Everyone likes the old school, soft spoken guys of the old days. Subban's not a problem in terms of drama cause he celebrates super enthusiastically or has fun high fives with teammates. The only real argument against Subban is his play. He's 30, D-men either age well or they fall off cliffs. His play this season was very poor and for a 9mil price tag it's a risk. But I don't see a problem with him as far as antics. He's not a cheapshot artist, I don't think he's an ego maniac and only cares about his numbers. I think he is a team guy and well liked by teammates. I don't think there should be any question about his character. Also, pretty much the entire Nashville team played average at best this season. Subban is not alone as a guy that had a subpar year in Nashville.

I don't know who keeps telling you is is "well-liked by his teammates" but you may want to check on where they are hearing that.    As far back as 2012 there was lots of chatter about his relationship with teammates and it has followed him to Nashville....here be but one example:

 

Subban keeps getting in fights.....with him teammates

 

 

I still don't understand what old white guys you are talking about and if they aren't his teammate why does it matter?   

Edited May 18, 2019 by Rob_Zepp
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[Dixon Ward]

I would think that in Tenessee, Subban has a chance of helping attract the african-american fans to buy tickets, jerseys, etc... and pay for his big ticket.  Had an off year, but I bet he is worth much more to them than to us.  I would not give up those assets for him.

 

If we want to spend that kind of money, Karlsson is younger and much better and would really sell tickets in Vancouver.  He would also allow everybody to play where they belong.  The top 4 would be very good and would give time for Juolevi, Woo and Tryamkin to work their way into the lineup.  Edler, Tanev, Schenn will peel away over time and they will fill in.

 

Edler Karlsson

Hughes Tanev

Hutton Stecher

Juolevi Schenn

[Hindustan Smyl]

5 hours ago, Dixon Ward said:

I would think that in Tenessee, Subban has a chance of helping attract the african-american fans to buy tickets, jerseys, etc... and pay for his big ticket.  Had an off year, but I bet he is worth much more to them than to us.  I would not give up those assets for him.

 

If we want to spend that kind of money, Karlsson is younger and much better and would really sell tickets in Vancouver.  He would also allow everybody to play where they belong.  The top 4 would be very good and would give time for Juolevi, Woo and Tryamkin to work their way into the lineup.  Edler, Tanev, Schenn will peel away over time and they will fill in.

 

Edler Karlsson

Hughes Tanev

Hutton Stecher

Juolevi Schenn

I get whole Karlsson argument, but I highly doubt that Karlsson would sign here for less than 10 million (likely 10.5-11 would be his market value) and as we’re seeing in today’s NHL, teams that have 10 million dollar players on their teams’ end up in “bridesmaid territory.”

 

Karlsson’s term of 7 years would also be concerning.  Karlsson is slowly becoming more injury prone, and so there’s a good chance that atleast 2-3 of those years that we’d have Karlsson would be a broken down and past-his-prime version of Karlsson.

 

If Karlsson signs here for 10.5-11 million, then there’s no way that our other Upcoming RFA’s take any discounts of any kind.   We’d basically become a poor man’s version of the current Toronto Maple Leafs (ie massive future cap complications).

[Hindustan Smyl]

11 hours ago, Blömqvist said:

Would rather trade for Trouba at this point.

 

That said, I would still be open for Subban depending on the price... I'm assuming it would take Tanev (replacement RHD), a top prospect, a 1st round pick, and an additional mid-round pick.

 

In terms of said top prospect, it's too bad we traded Dahlen away so quickly...

 

 

I would also be extremely open to making a move for Jacob Trouba, assuming that Trouba still has a long term interest in playing in Canada.

[theo5789]

Here's what I've gathered from the comments of this thread. Subban is a supposed trash overpaid player that is declining and is a locker room headache, but is going to costs major assets to acquire. It seems contradictory to me.

 

If he is a poor player, then wouldn't Nashville be looking to dump his cap and if he's a locker room problem (and took 3 seasons to figure that out?), would they not try to get rid of him as soon as possible even if not at full value? If he's worth major assets, it's because he is indeed still a top player in the game otherwise no GM would be making the deal that some are expecting anyway.

 

So why would Nashville consider moving Subban? They want to give Fabbro more time and want to unload the cap to try and go for a top 6 target (Duchene seems to be rumoured and also rumoured to cost maybe 9 million a season conveniently as well). So for me, I like the idea of Subban at a cap dump value, but at full value I would pass. I'm open to moving the 10th overall for Subban, but I'd be looking to be taking on their 24th overall in the deal instead of losing our 1st rounder altogether. I think a 14 spot jump into the top 10 would be significant value. And hopefully if we are targetting a dman this draft anyway that maybe someone like Seider/Soderstrom/Broberg/York or even Bjornfot is available at that point anyway so we would accomplish our draft goal on top of improving a current team need.

 

The OP brings up some important aspects especially for those concerned about signing aging vets that could be declining that the impact of Subban's remaining contract will not have a major impact and opens up the possibility of re-signing him at a lower hit for another contract rather than locking into a major deal now with someone and having that deal's full impact into the real declining years potentially. I'd like to spin his character in another way in that he would take the pressure off from the young guys. For example, EP this year was hounded by fools who got the "death stare" and the media jokes about it and tried to push him on it. Horvat (if named captain) can handle the media by giving the dull answers, but the media that wants a sound bite are going to hunt down someone else. Why not him? And the team will know his role in doing this as long as he doesn't go overboard.

 

And regardless of how he is in the locker room, he's clearly a good community guy in which our team is very adamant about. His sizeable donation to the children's hospital and I read an article about how he went out of his way to meet one of his fans despite being busy with team meetings and such and could've easily ignored them.

[Blömqvist]

19 hours ago, mll said:

Unless they completely change their system, which is a possibility,  Tanev is not the kind of D Nashville would be looking for.  Laviolette says if you think defence than you spend more time defending than attacking.  He wants Ds who know how to generate offence - that's not Tanev.  Also the reason to move a D is to give more responsibility to Fabbro.  

 

Their window is also wide open now.  They want to fix their 2nd line and a prospect who needs development time doesn't fill that need.

 

 

Maybe an indirect trade if they want to fix their 2nd line. They can trade the additional prospect and picks for extra offensive help at the deadline.

 

NSH: Kapanen + [VAN Top Prospect] + [2020 VAN 1st round pick] + [2019 VAN 3rd or 4th round pick]

TOR: Tanev

VAN: Subban

[mll]

6 hours ago, Blömqvist said:

 

Maybe an indirect trade if they want to fix their 2nd line. They can trade the additional prospect and picks for extra offensive help at the deadline.

 

NSH: Kapanen + [VAN Top Prospect] + [2020 VAN 1st round pick] + [2019 VAN 3rd or 4th round pick]

TOR: Tanev

VAN: Subban

 

Toronto is more likely to trade with Carolina.  They had discussions but were unwilling to move Kapanen - if he's available they should be able to make a deal.  

 

Tanev is a free agent in one year so he's not going to bring back that kind of return.  He also brings no offence and defensively he has not been as solid as in the past. 

 

Kapanen has mostly played with Matthews. It's not a given that he can put up that kind of numbers playing with a C like Turris.  

 

Edited May 19, 2019 by mll

[aGENT]

No opposed to bringing him here but we're an ill fit as a trade partner/can't afford the assets. They'd be looking for Boeser or Horvat.

 

No thanks.

 

 

[HughMungus]

I think he is a class act outside the rin and would definitly pursue. He would do great work with the Childrens Hospitals.

 

 

[HughMungus]

Tanev, Julevi, 2020 1st?

[mll]

1 hour ago, HughMungus said:

Tanev, Julevi, 2020 1st?

Nashville's window is wide open.  That's a step back.  If Subban gets traded it's for a difference maker that helps them immediately.  Poile says Subban is a top top player.  He also says that ever since they traded for him there have been rumours that they want to trade him - nothing different this year.  He makes their team better.   There are other players they can move before him. 

 

Tanev is not the kind of D that fits under Laviolette's system.  For Laviolette there is no positional play in the offensive zone - everyone has to be able to generate offence.  He also says if you think defence you spend more time defending.  He wants to play keep away and defend by pushing for offence.  That's not Tanev.  

 

Also Tanev is a free agent in one year.  Juolevi is not NHL ready and the comments by coach Agnew in Utica suggest that he still has a fair bit of work to do on his defensive game and needs to learn how to play at AHL pace.  

 

[PhillipBlunt]

Well written and thought out post. That being said, I'd rather have Shea Weber than PK Subban.

[GB5]

I Subban is off the books in a few years then he is of no use to this team. A few years is when this team will be competitive again and that is when they should be considering trades like this.

[Calvin's Dog]

I think Subban and his contract are a perfect fit for Vancouver. I thought he played his best hockey right after the trade from Montreal. I think it would take more than what if being offered and should not include this year's 10th or Stetcher. 

 

Maybe: 2019 2nd rd

             2020 1st (top 5 protected, no protection for 2021 if bumped ) & 2020 3rd

             2023 2nd (turns to first if re-signed in Vancouver) 

             Jalen Chatfield 

 

To Van: Subban

             2019 3rd 

 

I think 1 first (+1st if resigned) 

           2nd Rd

           3rd Rd

           Jalen Chatfield 

for an aging and high priced but high end right shot dman is not overpayment.

 

This of course would be based on them wanting to sign a Free Agent Forward like Duchene. 

Canucks could also take Bonino as a partial cap dump if they needed. Might need a Granlund+ going the other way to play with brother and cheap forward?

[JayDangles]

On 5/18/2019 at 3:40 AM, Twilight Sparkle said:

i wouldn't trade a moldy hot dog for PK subban. that guy's the definition of overrated. his only storyline has always been "look at that suit he's wearing! wow! he's so different!"

Thats not true. Remember when he blew up Marchand... still gives me the gooses!