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18W-40C-6W

[Proposal] Draft day for Florida 1st Rounder #13 Overall

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33 minutes ago, HughMungus said:

I think you are wrong about Tryamkin 100% and JB wouldnt have dumped Dahlen for Karlsson were he not a player and I trust Benning. 

 

So your analysis and mine will never see eye to eye. Fla clearly needs to pick at 13 and wait 3 years rather than inject youth and clear up cap for FAs according to you. I disagree. 

 

Also see Gudbranson trade and yes i know the GM is diff but he was an unprovrn 3rd OA. I think the value is fair.

 

 

Tryamkins value is pretty uncertain.  He’s playing in the KHL, two leagues down from the NHL, maybe one depending on who you think is right.   And he left us.  At this point I would consider him a throw in for a trade more than anything.  Like the guy but how good he really is and if he’s developed well is very debatable.   Should have stayed if he wanted the best competition which also grates me.  Heart matters and that shows his heart isn’t really in it. 

 

As far as the Dahlen trade goes it looks like a knee jerk reaction more than anything, for a player that’s a much lesser prospect both at the same age and definitely as of right this moment.  Probably the biggest thing that Bennings done that bugs me.   EPs best friend check.   Trending up in the AHL check.  SJ is giddy over this no doubt.  Maybe he will never play in the NHL, but his odds of doing so are much much higher than this Karlsson kid we added.   Curiously EPs production went off a cliff after this too.  Not saying it’s because of it (think it has more to do with the grind and lack of detterence) but it does line up time wise.  

 

 

 

 

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51 minutes ago, HughMungus said:

I think you are wrong about Tryamkin 100% and JB wouldnt have dumped Dahlen for Karlsson were he not a player and I trust Benning. 

 

So your analysis and mine will never see eye to eye. Fla clearly needs to pick at 13 and wait 3 years rather than inject youth and clear up cap for FAs according to you. I disagree. 

 

Also see Gudbranson trade and yes i know the GM is diff but he was an unprovrn 3rd OA. I think the value is fair.

 

 

I’m sure Florida will be more than happy to keep their pick, or trade it for a player who’s actually signed to an NHL contract rather than sell it off for a couple of Vancouver’s magic beans 

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3 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

I’m sure Florida will be more than happy to keep their pick, or trade it for a player who’s actually signed to an NHL contract rather than sell it off for a couple of Vancouver’s magic beans 

Are you old enough to remember how we got Ernhoff?

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10 minutes ago, HughMungus said:

Are you old enough to remember how we got Ernhoff?

The circumstances behind the Ehrhoff trade and you’re proposal aren’t remotely similar 

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2 hours ago, Calvin's Dog said:

I think Florida's problem next year would be goaltending and D.

 

Goaltending because if Luongo is done and rides out his contract on LTIR (which I have heard in a rumour and only a rumour) then they have Reimer at 3.4 million. I am not sure Reimer has the full confidence of Tallon but I don't know that for sure either. But even if Tallon does like Reimer, does he like him at 3.4 when he could have Goalie Bob (with Panarin) if rumours are true that he and Panarin would like to play together). This rumour appears so often I am starting to think it is more than just rumours.

 

So if Panthers want Panarin and Bobrovski that could be combined, 20 million, though they might get them for less, together, and playing in Florida with less taxes. But even if they get them both for 17 million 8.5 each, they will have to shed cap.

 

If I were JB I would phone DT and ask him if were interested in moving up to 10th overall. 

 

If so would DT, wanting the 10th overall and somehow knowing he had Goalie Bob and Panarin in place* then make a deal like:

 

To Florida: 

10th overall: Better chance at one of the US elite wingers

3rd 2021 (if Hoffman included)

Thatcher Demko (back up to goalie Bob) @ 1.05 for 2 years

Virtanen $1.25 for 1. year (RFA)

Goldobin RFA rights (Thinking that DT might see him as a possible reclamation with Panarin and Barkov)(?)

Sutter 50% retained @ $2.188+- for 2 more years

Tanev 50% retained @ $2.225 for next year

 

Cap implications: 4 players at $6.7 million plus Goldobin (same as Virtanen?) 1.25 million?

They get third line centre who should be healthy finally

Veteran right side D help

DT gets 5 players for less than the price of the two (or three) that he is giving up. 

If Luongo goes on LTIR, then he has lots of Cap to add a free agent too. Karlsson? Eberle?

 

To Vancouver

 

13th overall (Vancouver probably still gets Soderstrom or Newhook or Broberg or even Seider)

Reimer $3.4 for 2 more years

Huberdeau $5.9 for 4 more years

Hoffman (if they want to take a run at Karlsson)

 

Vancouver gives up a lot but gets Huberdeau on a great contract to play with Petey. Reimer expires when Petey and Hughes get (hopefully) big raises.

 

I realize DT might just as easily flip Reimer (if he signs Goalie Bob) and trade Hoffman if he want Karlsson.

 

*I forget where the UFA courting period and draft work out. I could also see DT trading for their rights from Columbus in order to get the 8th year to lower the cap.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Take Huberdeau out and maybe they bite.  Sutter and Tanev are cap dumps and we have to pay for it.   We’d end up with two of their best players on great contracts, Demko and the 10th aren’t worth that.  Hoffman will either re-up with them or get traded for something very nice later at the TDL...

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3 hours ago, IBatch said:

You never really do know.   GMJB might have no desire at all to weaken our right side further even if it meant another shot at a very good prospect this draft.  Or maybe he’s on the phone now because he his minions read these threads and see some point to it. 

 

Personally im all for shedding both Tanev and Sutter from the roster for whatever we can get even if it’s peanuts.   I don’t like guys that don’t play because they are always in the infirmary, I find it disruptive to the team both when they leave and when they come back.   It messes with the baseline of the club as well.  How good are we really?  If we are almost good enough without their help then maybe that money should be used to bolster different things like toughness for EP etc.   I get the need for vets, they pass down intangibles like how to be a pro and how to make it through a season.   Bear is another guy that falls into this bracket.   It’s frustrating as a fan to wonder when Tanev will go down, Edler will go down, Bear will go down, Sutter will go down etc.  It’s part of the game no doubt, but a GM can mitigate this somewhat by avoiding such players.

 

I must be mental because at the same time I’d welcome EK into the fold with open arms. 

I think we could land Stralman to replace Tanev, and go with Stralman, Stecher, and let Pysyk and Schenn battle it out for the 3rd pair right side. 

 

So much depends on what FLA is looking to do its hard to know how they'd view it. 

 

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26 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I think we could land Stralman to replace Tanev, and go with Stralman, Stecher, and let Pysyk and Schenn battle it out for the 3rd pair right side. 

 

So much depends on what FLA is looking to do its hard to know how they'd view it. 

 

I’m all for it.  If Benning can add a first round pick for Tanev, Sutter plus a later pick and get something back ... I will bow before every time he picks this draft.   

 

Im a little torn about what he should do this summer.   Standing Pat has some downfalls, i really think we need to add a bruiser (doesn’t need to cost us much) either from the AHL or another team ) to keep the things honest first and foremost.  After that I’d rather see him make a move for an elite UFA than more troops or someone in the LE territory (other than Skinner, I think he’s worth it).

 

Just as good don’t do anything other than minor transactions (recycle Goldobin maybe).   Let the team work on getting better organically, by getting a year older and more mature, give OJ his shot and see how much of an impact QH has.   You get better bang for your buck at the TDL, even if we are close or still in it I’d sell what we can then.  One more draft year with a top ten pick on top of this year, will keep the talent trickling in at a good rate for four more years.  

 

That said at some point Benning needs to address the defense...he says it’s this off season so nobody should be suprised if we overpay Stralman, Myers, Edler, Garbdiner or even EK.   We have exactly two prospects in the pipe that are big maybes as far as impact defenseman goes, OJ and Woo.   Pretty thin pickings.  Good thing we have Hughes.   

 

Definitely looking forward to the draft to see if anything is in the works, and July 1 to see where 90% of the unsigned guys go.  

 

Boring might be the best strategy of them all and I’d be ok with that.   We could strike after next season or even the one after that, when we’ve gone through the expansion draft and Luongos never ending contract. The next CBA is looming too.  More buyouts will come available although by then Benning won’t need any, but he can put them (probably two) in his pocket for later.  

 

 

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6 hours ago, IBatch said:

The main problem with Tanev and Sutter is health and a little on the cap hit for both guys.  Who would you want on your team Tanev and Sutter and no 13th overall, or Panarin?   If Panarin gets 9 million in Florida it’s like getting paid 11 million in 28 other teams given no state taxes.    I do get they both have a fair amount of value when they are healthy but I don’t think that would be the ask from Florida.  They’d want AG and our second minimum, or maybe Markstrom back and AG.  That’s a more realistic deal for them.  Sutter has virtually no trade value at the moment given his recent play and his health issues combined with his cap hit.   Tanev has some, there is a reason TO keeps popping up given their shot suppression issues.   

 

In the real world Tanev might get us a second,  Sutter would almost be like a cap dump and we might have to add to get rid of him for nothing in return, maybe a 3rd at best or a B level prospect that is IF Benning could actually find a trading partner.  

 

No team wants the dissonance that comes with players that are often injured, it’s distracting for the coaches and the teammates.  It makes things harder.  Salo was a good player when he played...kind of like Edler.  Frustrating for fans and coaches and GMs alike and trade value goes way, way down when trying to flog them. 

They have 22 mil in cap space and could afford all three, if we retain some and maybe take a contract back they can afford Bobrovski as well. And if Bob is signed, that means Lu's 4.3 is off the cap due to failing his physical

 

They can make it work if they call up a young player like Tippet and we retain 2.79 mil (plus they could trade Reimer and get a cheaper backup)

 

FORWARDS (12)
Right wing: Mike Hoffman ($5,187,500) - Evgeni Dadonov ($4,000,000) - Colton Sceviour ($1,200,000) - Owen Tippett ($863,333)
Centre: Aleksander Barkov ($5,900,000) - Vincent Trocheck ($4,750,000) - Brandon Sutter ($4,375,000) - Henrik Borgström ($925,000)
Left wing: Jonathan Huberdeau ($5,900,000) - Artemi Panarin ($9,350,000) - Frank Vatrano ($2,533,333) - Garnet Hathaway ($1,350,000)

 

DEFENSE (6)
Right: Aaron Ekblad ($7,500,000) - Christopher Tanev ($4,450,000) - Mark Pysyk ($2,733,333)
Left: Keith Yandle ($6,350,000) - Michael Matheson ($4,875,000) - Joshua Brown ($675,000)

 

GOALTENDER (2)
Sergei Bobrovsky ($8,850,000) - James Reimer ($3,400,000)

RETAINED SALARY TRANSACTIONS (1)
Jason Demers ($562,500)

DETAILS
Roster Size: 20
Salary Cap: $83,000,000
Cap Hit: $85,729,999
Cap Space: -$2,729,999

 

 

 

Edited by 18W-40C-6W

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39 minutes ago, IBatch said:

I’m all for it.  If Benning can add a first round pick for Tanev, Sutter plus a later pick and get something back ... I will bow before every time he picks this draft.   

 

Im a little torn about what he should do this summer.   Standing Pat has some downfalls, i really think we need to add a bruiser (doesn’t need to cost us much) either from the AHL or another team ) to keep the things honest first and foremost.  After that I’d rather see him make a move for an elite UFA than more troops or someone in the LE territory (other than Skinner, I think he’s worth it).

 

Just as good don’t do anything other than minor transactions (recycle Goldobin maybe).   Let the team work on getting better organically, by getting a year older and more mature, give OJ his shot and see how much of an impact QH has.   You get better bang for your buck at the TDL, even if we are close or still in it I’d sell what we can then.  One more draft year with a top ten pick on top of this year, will keep the talent trickling in at a good rate for four more years.  

 

That said at some point Benning needs to address the defense...he says it’s this off season so nobody should be suprised if we overpay Stralman, Myers, Edler, Garbdiner or even EK.   We have exactly two prospects in the pipe that are big maybes as far as impact defenseman goes, OJ and Woo.   Pretty thin pickings.  Good thing we have Hughes.   

 

Definitely looking forward to the draft to see if anything is in the works, and July 1 to see where 90% of the unsigned guys go.  

 

Boring might be the best strategy of them all and I’d be ok with that.   We could strike after next season or even the one after that, when we’ve gone through the expansion draft and Luongos never ending contract. The next CBA is looming too.  More buyouts will come available although by then Benning won’t need any, but he can put them (probably two) in his pocket for later.  

 

 

I think we have some bottom 6 depth in Sautner and Breisbois, and thats not exciting but its not nothing. We need cheap capable guys too. I also think Rathbone is going to be a dark horse pick, the kid keeps getting bigger and better with a nice solid year at Ha-vaaard last season. We might see him make the jump at the end of next year if he takes off on his own without Fox.

 

I'm leaning go big or go home on signings. Panarin or bust on the Fs. I like Stralman, don't see it as "big" but watching EK this playoffs I just want to call an ambulance for him. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Jimmy McGill

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23 minutes ago, 18W-40C-6W said:

They have 22 mil in cap space and could afford all three, if we retain some and maybe take a contract back they can afford Bobrovski as well. And if Bob is signed, that means Lu's 4.3 is off the cap due to failing his physical

True but they have 15 guys currently on their roster and they need to fill it up.  We have 30.5 million by the same thinking but have our own guys to pay and UFAs (Edler) to consider.   Why they heck would they encumber themselves with someone else’s encumbersomes?   Tanev and Sutter don’t have nearly the trade value that they did a few years ago, that boat is sailed and sunk.  

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1 minute ago, IBatch said:

True but they have 15 guys currently on their roster and they need to fill it up.  We have 30.5 million by the same thinking but have our own guys to pay and UFAs (Edler) to consider.   Why they heck would they encumber themselves with someone else’s encumbersomes?   Tanev and Sutter don’t have nearly the trade value that they did a few years ago, that boat is sailed and sunk.  

see my last post again, its very doable cap wise, I made a roster on cap friendly. You disagree with my premise of why FLA would do  it, ok, but cap is not the issue - see my edit

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9 hours ago, IBatch said:

How about AG and our second.  That would work.  Or Tanev and our second and third, that would work.  Screw that.  

How do you really feel.....LOL

 

Alls good Bud...it would not be the first time I have been wrong!

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On 5/20/2019 at 2:02 PM, Pears said:

Two overpriced injury prone players will not get you a 13th overall pick. 

 

On 5/20/2019 at 2:11 PM, 18W-40C-6W said:

Yes they will

 

See your opinion isn't fact, don't portray it as such

Having read only to this point, I would suggest that your assumptions aren't fact and the potential injury issue is only part of why Florida might not do this. As I recall Florida likes to run on cheap gas, so adding almost $9 million to their cap may not sit well with management, even if it is for only one year. 

 

This being said, if Benning could get this done, hey why not?  :)

 

                                                      regards,  G.

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3 hours ago, 18W-40C-6W said:

They have 22 mil in cap space and could afford all three, if we retain some and maybe take a contract back they can afford Bobrovski as well. And if Bob is signed, that means Lu's 4.3 is off the cap due to failing his physical

 

They can make it work if they call up a young player like Tippet and we retain 2.79 mil (plus they could trade Reimer and get a cheaper backup)

 

FORWARDS (12)
Right wing: Mike Hoffman ($5,187,500) - Evgeni Dadonov ($4,000,000) - Colton Sceviour ($1,200,000) - Owen Tippett ($863,333)
Centre: Aleksander Barkov ($5,900,000) - Vincent Trocheck ($4,750,000) - Brandon Sutter ($4,375,000) - Henrik Borgström ($925,000)
Left wing: Jonathan Huberdeau ($5,900,000) - Artemi Panarin ($9,350,000) - Frank Vatrano ($2,533,333) - Garnet Hathaway ($1,350,000)

 

DEFENSE (6)
Right: Aaron Ekblad ($7,500,000) - Christopher Tanev ($4,450,000) - Mark Pysyk ($2,733,333)
Left: Keith Yandle ($6,350,000) - Michael Matheson ($4,875,000) - Joshua Brown ($675,000)

 

GOALTENDER (2)
Sergei Bobrovsky ($8,850,000) - James Reimer ($3,400,000)

RETAINED SALARY TRANSACTIONS (1)
Jason Demers ($562,500)

DETAILS
Roster Size: 20
Salary Cap: $83,000,000
Cap Hit: $85,729,999
Cap Space: -$2,729,999

 

 

 

 

Luongo is not going to fail his physical.  It's either early retirement or he will be their backup.  It's by far more convenient for Florida that he retires early rather than have him on the roster.  They can offer him a front office job to compensate for the loss of salary in retiring early.  

 

Florida is talking of buying out Reimer.

 

Panarin is looking for upwards of 10M per LeBrun/McKenzie.    

 

Who are their physical players?   Tampa is their biggest rival and CBJ beat them by physicality.  Tallon was looking for a big punishing D last off-season.  Doubtful he'd want an oft injured Tanev with just 1 year to free agency.

 

Nashville can offer them Bonino who has the same role as Sutter and has been more productive.  He is a +27 player in a shutdown role. 

 

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1 hour ago, mll said:

 

Luongo is not going to fail his physical.  It's either early retirement or he will be their backup.  It's by far more convenient for Florida that he retires early rather than have him on the roster.  They can offer him a front office job to compensate for the loss of salary in retiring early.  

 

Florida is talking of buying out Reimer.

 

Panarin is looking for upwards of 10M per LeBrun/McKenzie.    

 

Who are their physical players?   Tampa is their biggest rival and CBJ beat them by physicality.  Tallon was looking for a big punishing D last off-season.  Doubtful he'd want an oft injured Tanev with just 1 year to free agency.

 

Nashville can offer them Bonino who has the same role as Sutter and has been more productive.  He is a +27 player in a shutdown role. 

 

Florida will be hit with cap penalties if he retires. The “way around” that is if a player fails his physical. It’s known he’s having knee and hip issues. It’s very plausible he fails his physical. So much so many have talked about it in the media. A physical for you and me is not the same for a NHL goalie. Their bodies are tested to see if they can also manage to “play the game” not just a butt finger probe and blood tests guy. Smh 

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/roberto-luongos-playing-future-looking-uncertain/

Edited by 18W-40C-6W
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2 hours ago, 18W-40C-6W said:

Florida will be hit with cap penalties if he retires. The “way around” that is if a player fails his physical. It’s known he’s having knee and hip issues. It’s very plausible he fails his physical. So much so many have talked about it in the media. A physical for you and me is not the same for a NHL goalie. Their bodies are tested to see if they can also manage to “play the game” not just a butt finger probe and blood tests guy. Smh 

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/roberto-luongos-playing-future-looking-uncertain/

I get that it's not the same standards.  The cap penalty is minimal for Florida vs having them to keep 4.5M on their books.  It's a nuisance to have a LTIR player because it doesn't allow to bank cap space and Florida wants to spend right up to the cap.

 

Luongo says he's not injured and is fully healthy.  He shot down reports that his health could be a deciding factor.  He actually linked that article to his twitter account asking if it's April Fools.  

 

Both Tallon and Luongo say he is healthy and it's up to him to decide whether he wants to return or not - he knows it's a backup role with them looking for a new starter.

 

 

4 hours ago, Gollumpus said:

 

Having read only to this point, I would suggest that your assumptions aren't fact and the potential injury issue is only part of why Florida might not do this. As I recall Florida likes to run on cheap gas, so adding almost $9 million to their cap may not sit well with management, even if it is for only one year. 

 

This being said, if Benning could get this done, hey why not?  :)

 

                                                      regards,  G.

Owner Viola has given Tallon the green light to spend right up to the cap.  Tallon is going to be very aggressive in the off-season.  They want to bring in star power to attract fans.  They apparently offered up a significant package for Mark Stone per Tallon.  Ottawa probably didn't want to trade within the division - similar to them sending Hoffman to SJS rather than Florida directly.  

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10 hours ago, mll said:

I get that it's not the same standards.  The cap penalty is minimal for Florida vs having them to keep 4.5M on their books.  It's a nuisance to have a LTIR player because it doesn't allow to bank cap space and Florida wants to spend right up to the cap.

 

Luongo says he's not injured and is fully healthy.  He shot down reports that his health could be a deciding factor.  He actually linked that article to his twitter account asking if it's April Fools.  

 

Both Tallon and Luongo say he is healthy and it's up to him to decide whether he wants to return or not - he knows it's a backup role with them looking for a new starter.

 

 

Owner Viola has given Tallon the green light to spend right up to the cap.  Tallon is going to be very aggressive in the off-season.  They want to bring in star power to attract fans.  They apparently offered up a significant package for Mark Stone per Tallon.  Ottawa probably didn't want to trade within the division - similar to them sending Hoffman to SJS rather than Florida directly.  

I really don’t think FLA is going to tie up close to $15 mil on goalies for 3 more years Dude. That’s not going to help their team win. If they sign Bobrovski, and Lou is healthy they will move him. You can’t afford that in a cap world if the goal of their team Is to compete 

Edited by 18W-40C-6W

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Whilst the value is close for the 13th OA and its exactly what the Panthers need, I don't think the Panthers pull the trigger given its close to 9m in salary and they have plans to pursue both Bob and Panarin. I am of the opinion that we are better suited to split them up in two separate trades and maximize our return. I also included some other trades.  

 

TO EDM

Sutter (50%)

TO VAN

Lucic, 8th OA, 38th OA

 

Whilst most will see this as a favor to Edmonton, I think this is a package a lot of teams with cap space would jump on (if they had a 3c to move). We get 2 top 4 picks in a deep 1st round. With the amount of salary we are hoping to move or get off the books in the next two years. The additional 6 million is nothing.

 

 

TO DAL

Tanev, Goldobin, 3rd in 2020 (Conditional, changes to a 2nd if Tanev plays less than 65 games)

TO VAN

18th OA, Honka

 

Dallas needs a top 4 right handed dman that can help keep the puck out of the net. I think with an easier travel schedule and easier matchups playing behind Klingberg, Heiskanen, Tanev will thrive. We exchange projects in Goldobin and Honka who I still believe can turn out to be better than Hutton. We give them a 3rd to bring value closer and it changes to a 2nd if Tanev plays less than 65 games.

 

 

TO CAR

Hutton, Baertschi

TO VAN

29th OA

 

Carolina needs more forward depth and are particularly weak at LW especially with Ferland likely gone in free agency. They get a LHD defenseman that can play in the top 6 and top 4 minutes for a limited time if required. This allows them to move a more valuable defenseman for more forward depth.

 

TO PITS

29th OA (CAR), 38th OA (EDM)

TO VAN

21st OA

 

Pits is still looking to complete with Crosby and Malkin. The 21st doesn't hold the same value to them as it would for teams beginning their rebuild. I think dropping 8 spots in the latter 1/3 if the first round and getting an extra 2nd allows them to begin stocking up their depleted prospect pool.

 

TO OTT

Eriksson, 3rd round in 2019

TO VAN

6th round in 2020

 

6m cap hit, not much actual salary to be paid, 3rd round pick this year. Melnyk is all overt this as it gets him to the cap floor without having to pay the cap hit salary!!!

 

 

Granlund, Spooner, Schaller out for 5th, 6th, or 7th picks

 

We go into the draft with

8thOA - Krebs/Podkolzin/Boldy

10thOA - Krebs/Podkolzin/Boldy

18thOA - Seider

21stOA - Lavoie

40thOA - Korczak

 

 

 

OUT

Sutter (2.25)

Hutton (3.0)

Baertschi (3.5)

Eriksson (6.0)

Tanev (4.5)

Goldobin (1.5)

Granlund (2.0)

Schaller (1.9)

Spooner (3.25)

Pouliot (1.5)

Gaunce (1.5)

3rd in 2019

3rd in 2020

 

 

 

IN

Lucic(6m)

Honka (1.5)

Krebs

Podkolzin

Sieder

Lavoie

Korczak

6th in 2020

Whatever we get for Schaller, Granlund, Spooner

 

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On 5/21/2019 at 2:21 PM, IBatch said:

Take Huberdeau out and maybe they bite.  Sutter and Tanev are cap dumps and we have to pay for it.   We’d end up with two of their best players on great contracts, Demko and the 10th aren’t worth that.  Hoffman will either re-up with them or get traded for something very nice later at the TDL...

Yeah maybe it's off, but it was based on Florida wanting to get rid of Reimer and bring in goalie Bob and Panarin and therefore they needed the cap dump. I disagree that Sutter and Tanev are cap dumps at 50% retained and have good value. Their injury misfortunes have to change sometime and at 50% salary they figure nicely into 3rd line centre 2nd or third pairing right side D.

 

The Hoffman for a third was if they decide to go after EK65.

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