Jump to content
The Official Site of the Vancouver Canucks
Canucks Community

Canada to spend $16 Billion on new Coast Guard Ships - Irving's Rewarded


Rob_Zepp

Recommended Posts

57 minutes ago, Violator said:

It would be pretty nice for our forces and being built in Canada would definitely be an advantage in the competition for our new fighter. I just hope that the upcoming election, whoever wins, doesn't delay the process even further...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Ronaldoescobar said:

It would be pretty nice for our forces and being built in Canada would definitely be an advantage in the competition for our new fighter. I just hope that the upcoming election, whoever wins, doesn't delay the process even further...

I actually think if the cpc wins they will act quicker on getting new fighters only because they keep attacking the liberals on the length of this process.

 

The new Gripen is a great jet and I like that offer but I'm positive Canada will buy a US jet and I wouldn't be surprised to see them go with a mixed fighter fleet, f18 and f35.

 

I'm not sure if Sweden can offer a full technology transfer as they put American and British technology in their jets.

But it's a very "smart fighter." It's not the gripen of old.

 

 

Edited by Ryan Strome
  • Cheers 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, Ryan Strome said:

I actually think if the cpc wins they will act quicker on getting new fighters only because they keep attacking the liberals on the length of this process.

 

The new Gripen is a great jet and I like that offer but I'm positive Canada will buy a US jet and I wouldn't be surprised to see them go with a mixed fighter fleet, f18 and f35.

 

I'm not sure if Sweden can offer a full technology transfer as they put American and British technology in their jets.

But it's a very "smart fighter." It's not the gripen of old.

The Gripen has an Achilles heel : it is quite literally the most patchwork, frankeinstien fighter in the world, in terms of # of vendors for parts, spread across too many nations. 
Their engines are American, Its avionics suite is British + Israeli +Swedish. Its airframe gets manufactured in France, Germany and Sweden. Its actuators are American, its sensors are also American.Its weapons load is a mix of French and American.

 

As the saying goes , 'too many moving parts' there. Its failed in a few bids precisely due to this problem : buying the Gripen and dealing with its lifecycle upgrades + repairs etc. involves dealing with too many nations. 
Going with US, French or Russian would ideally be much, much easier.

 

Ideally, Canada should buy Japan's F-15 fleet. They want to offload it, as they want to transition into the F-35 scene. For them, it makes operational sense: they get to prioritize stealth and much greater signal noise/power issues due to a much more radar & ECM saturation zone of their operational theatre (ie, East China Sea). We don't need that. What we need, are air superiority fighters to protect the vast Canadian air space and be able to project power into the arctic ocean as it thaws and becomes a shipping hot spot. 

F-15s have a ferry range of 5000kms and are basically an older air-frame Su-30. The Russians will be using Su-35s and Su-51s in the region for the concievable future, where Su-35s are basically superior Su-30s and Su-51s are stealthier versions of those, though apparently 'not as stealthy' as F-35, let alone F-22. 

Japan will be looking to offload this fleet at a bargain and they got enough for our needs. They got about 155 of them, thats the equivalent of 8-10 squadrons. Probably can be had at a bargain price of 40 million each or near abouts  0.75 billion. 

 

 

In terms of cost to benefits ratio for Canada, these second hand F-15s will be extremely hard to beat. But Trudeau will not go this direction likely, as there is always money to be made by offering mega-bucks in defense deals, the world over. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/22/2019 at 4:43 PM, Ryan Strome said:

I agree!!

 

You see all parties in Canada neglect our military because so many Canadians want more and more free hand outs. 

 

 

Personally I could give a **** about that so as long it goes to those really in need.  What bothers me is sending these guys in harms way without the proper equipment to defend themselves.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Personally I could give a **** about that so as long it goes to those really in need.  What bothers me is sending these guys in harms way without the proper equipment to defend themselves.  

Imo this gets overblown as we have a very well trained, arguably the best in the world military that is well armed in their missions however with increasing capability gaps in the future if we don't act will directly leave our men and women without the tools necessary.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Ryan Strome said:

Imo this gets overblown as we have a very well trained, arguably the best in the world military that is well armed in their missions however with increasing capability gaps in the future if we don't act will directly leave our men and women without the tools necessary.

Yeah maybe I still am stuck in the 80s where the armed forces were forced to deal with equipment circa the Korean war thanks to Justin Senior.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, gurn said:

F-35 has parts being built in 9 different nations

https://www.f35.com/global

 

"Suppliers in all nine of the program's partner countries are producing F-35 components for all aircraft, not just those for their country. "

Yes, but that is for production cost & logistics reasons, not due to propreiterial rights and technical capability reasons. Saab CANNOT make a jet engine to power the gripen, period. They *MUST* by it from the Americans or French or Russians or the Ango-German consortium. Thats it. Same with avionics, etc. When push comes to shove, LM and rest of USA is perfectly fine in making the entire F-35 by itself. Saab cannot do it and it makes the user of Gripen perpetually reliant on multiple nations not just one. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, canuckistani said:

The Gripen has an Achilles heel : it is quite literally the most patchwork, frankeinstien fighter in the world, in terms of # of vendors for parts, spread across too many nations. 
Their engines are American, Its avionics suite is British + Israeli +Swedish. Its airframe gets manufactured in France, Germany and Sweden. Its actuators are American, its sensors are also American.Its weapons load is a mix of French and American.

 

As the saying goes , 'too many moving parts' there. Its failed in a few bids precisely due to this problem : buying the Gripen and dealing with its lifecycle upgrades + repairs etc. involves dealing with too many nations. 
Going with US, French or Russian would ideally be much, much easier.

 

Ideally, Canada should buy Japan's F-15 fleet. They want to offload it, as they want to transition into the F-35 scene. For them, it makes operational sense: they get to prioritize stealth and much greater signal noise/power issues due to a much more radar & ECM saturation zone of their operational theatre (ie, East China Sea). We don't need that. What we need, are air superiority fighters to protect the vast Canadian air space and be able to project power into the arctic ocean as it thaws and becomes a shipping hot spot. 

F-15s have a ferry range of 5000kms and are basically an older air-frame Su-30. The Russians will be using Su-35s and Su-51s in the region for the concievable future, where Su-35s are basically superior Su-30s and Su-51s are stealthier versions of those, though apparently 'not as stealthy' as F-35, let alone F-22. 

Japan will be looking to offload this fleet at a bargain and they got enough for our needs. They got about 155 of them, thats the equivalent of 8-10 squadrons. Probably can be had at a bargain price of 40 million each or near abouts  0.75 billion. 

 

 

In terms of cost to benefits ratio for Canada, these second hand F-15s will be extremely hard to beat. But Trudeau will not go this direction likely, as there is always money to be made by offering mega-bucks in defense deals, the world over. 

 

Dont think we really need f-35 to be honest its overkill

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Violator said:

Dont think we really need f-35 to be honest its overkill

We don't need more than a squadron or two of F-35s. What we do need however, are proven technology & sturdy planes that can be based 2000 kms from the arctic and still patrol them when required. Currently, the platforms that are proven technology, can cover 4000 km round trip ( with ariel refuelling or drop tanks) and exert air dominance are Rafales, F-15s, Su-30s and Su-35s. F-22 qualifies as well but its a moot point since USAF will not part with F-22 for anyone. Take out the Russian platforms because we all know that Canada, as a NATO member will not go to Russian suppliers over NATO companies. This leaves Rafale & the F-15. Well Japan is getting rid of their F-15s as soon as they have a buyer. So we get them at discount. They do the job, they are proven tech and will be the cheapest option out there. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Yeah maybe I still am stuck in the 80s where the armed forces were forced to deal with equipment circa the Korean war thanks to Justin Senior.

Yes under PET the military did not have the equipment it needed.

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, canuckistani said:

We don't need more than a squadron or two of F-35s. What we do need however, are proven technology & sturdy planes that can be based 2000 kms from the arctic and still patrol them when required. Currently, the platforms that are proven technology, can cover 4000 km round trip ( with ariel refuelling or drop tanks) and exert air dominance are Rafales, F-15s, Su-30s and Su-35s. F-22 qualifies as well but its a moot point since USAF will not part with F-22 for anyone. Take out the Russian platforms because we all know that Canada, as a NATO member will not go to Russian suppliers over NATO companies. This leaves Rafale & the F-15. Well Japan is getting rid of their F-15s as soon as they have a buyer. So we get them at discount. They do the job, they are proven tech and will be the cheapest option out there. 

 

Rafale backed out of the competition a while back. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Ryan Strome said:

Yes under PET the military did not have the equipment it needed.

 

 

 

 

Dont think the liberals like defence spending they seem to cut it to put money into other things.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/30/2019 at 5:38 PM, canuckistani said:

We don't need more than a squadron or two of F-35s. What we do need however, are proven technology & sturdy planes that can be based 2000 kms from the arctic and still patrol them when required. Currently, the platforms that are proven technology, can cover 4000 km round trip ( with ariel refuelling or drop tanks) and exert air dominance are Rafales, F-15s, Su-30s and Su-35s. F-22 qualifies as well but its a moot point since USAF will not part with F-22 for anyone. Take out the Russian platforms because we all know that Canada, as a NATO member will not go to Russian suppliers over NATO companies. This leaves Rafale & the F-15. Well Japan is getting rid of their F-15s as soon as they have a buyer. So we get them at discount. They do the job, they are proven tech and will be the cheapest option out there. 

 

Canada should try to get the F-15X. Buying old airframes could work as a stopgap but I think it'll increase maintenance costs a lot in the long run. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/30/2019 at 5:37 PM, Ryan Strome said:

Imo this gets overblown as we have a very well trained, arguably the best in the world military that is well armed in their missions however with increasing capability gaps in the future if we don't act will directly leave our men and women without the tools necessary.

I think military in Canada has been underfunded since the 80’s.

As of right now closest operational naval base for Arctic defense is in Halifax.

 

It is hard to win a war with 4 dozen old fighter jets, no attack helicopters and 30 or so ships.

Biggest military advantage that Canada has, is its geographical location.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, CBH1926 said:

I think military in Canada has been underfunded since the 80’s.

As of right now closest operational naval base for Arctic defense is in Halifax.

 

It is hard to win a war with 4 dozen old fighter jets, no attack helicopters and 30 or so ships.

Biggest military advantage that Canada has, is its geographical location.

 

"But Canada should only be 'peacekeepers' not aggressors!"  /s

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, D'Angelo Russell said:

Canada should try to get the F-15X. Buying old airframes could work as a stopgap but I think it'll increase maintenance costs a lot in the long run. 

 

true. It depends on how much hours the Japanese F-15s have flown and what the metal fatigue on the airframes and engines are like. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hope future planes can run on auto pilot....

 

Defence Watch podcast: Beards, dope and families — How the Canadian military plans to attract a new generation of recruits

 

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/defence-watch-podcast-beards-dope-and-families-how-the-canadian-military-plans-to-attract-a-new-generation-of-recruits

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...