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Evgeny Kuznetsov in some trouble maybe...(re-updated suspended for 3 games)

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Wow!  People actually think that a pro athlete should have his contract cancelled for drug use that doesn’t enhance performance???  If we fired everyone who has ever done drugs there would be no one left working. Where do we draw the line?  Drunk in public is a crime?  Had more than two drinks on a Friday, you’re fired! Jay walking is a crime...you’re fired!  I think the IIHF was really hard on him already, good on the NHL and the Caps for trying to help him. I don’t support drug use, nor do I do any illegal drugs (now that my favourite one is legal) but come on people, get off the high horse (pun intended) and face the real world. Not everyone goes to church on Sunday and some people blow off steam differently than others. The only person getting hurt is himself...until that changes I’m gonna keep watching these guys play hockey. 

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On 8/23/2019 at 11:07 PM, WHL rocks said:

He did get banned from IIHF for 4 yrs. I think that's too long.. 1 year would be enough unless repeat offender. 

 

Not being allowed in NHL means losing his job. That's ridiculous. About a third of the country would lose their jobs if everyone was tested. 

 

25% of Canadians are abusing drugs. Many many more have experimented with them..

 

If he's in a position of responsibility for others including minors while at work, yes he should be fired. Example a teacher or police officer. But a hockey player or football player partying on his own time. I couldn't care less..  

 

People watching are paying him for his entertainment services. He's not getting charity. He's just like Hollywood actors or musicians. Getting paid to entertain. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If that is an excuse, it sure is a lame one.

 

If the numbers you mention are even remotely accurate, I wouldn’t be so proud about it. I’m assuming you are referring to Canada here btw. Without giving it more thought than this here, I’d say that overlooking the problem and negligent attitude towards the issue is why there is such a large number of people using drugs. And if the general sense is that people need to do what they like, then the numbers sure ain’t going down.

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On 5/27/2019 at 10:55 PM, Alflives said:

Wouldn’t being a Coke head make a guy play worse?  

Just saw this thread.  Probert used coke fairly regularly when partying - also a regular occurrence while with Detroit.  In his book he said he used it before a game once (on another teammates request bet it was Kocur ha ha how else could he punch that hard at barely 200lbs) and it  he said it was the worst experience of his life - felt like his feet were made of concrete and his heart was going to explode out of his chest.

 

Averys book goes into detail in how much stuff trainers have in their bags that they give to any player that asked for it - shots of Torodal which in his own words made him feel invincible and used all the time before games.   Funny how if it’s a pharmaceutical it’s no big deal - but if it’s coke it’s a big deal.   Especially when one players won’t use more then once or twice and play with (at least if they had Proberts reaction - he took it because he was hung over and usually that’s the quickest way out of one) when the other makes you feel like superman and elevates your play - isn’t that the whole idea of performance enhancing drugs?  Avery did say he knew players  that did coke - quite a few - recreationally - but he stayed away because he knew with his personality he wouldn’t be able to stop if it was really as good as all the hype (which it isn’t). 

 

Edit:  Coke was considered a garbage drug by the countries that have the plants - one of the biggest scams in human history is Pablo hooking North Americans on it and it getting promoted as a glamorous thing etc.  

 

An even bigger scam is that pharmaceutical companies create legal herion and pushed it on all pain patients to people with small surgeries or boo-boos to the point where they addicted a much greater demographic then cocaine ever affected.  And now we are paying the cost for a lot of human suffering.   The affects are a lot worse as are the withdrawal symptoms.   It’s shunned now and the medical community knows better, but an entire generation is still feeling the affect of their “miracle drug” oxy-contin and others like it.   I grew up in the eighties and coke didn’t ruin anyone I know personally.   I bet everyone on the CDC knows someone personally or someone that knows someone that doctors ruined though.  

 

Going full circle back to Probert - he was on painkillers (narcotics) after he retired and hooked - his wife would hide his pills all over the house to keep him from running out.   Perception is everything - if you plan to go to the US make sure you don’t have any pot talk on your phone or in your history - and plan to lie that you don’t know anyone that smokes it and don’t smoke yourself or they won’t let you in and whatever holiday you had planned will be over before it started.   They still view pot as bad - the same way many still think taking drugs from a doctor isn’t nearly as bad as sniffing coke or shooting heroine (in many cases it’s worse).  Although that perception is changing a dealer is a dealer.  

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On 8/24/2019 at 3:42 PM, Amebushi said:

Wow!  People actually think that a pro athlete should have his contract cancelled for drug use that doesn’t enhance performance???  If we fired everyone who has ever done drugs there would be no one left working. Where do we draw the line?  Drunk in public is a crime?  Had more than two drinks on a Friday, you’re fired! Jay walking is a crime...you’re fired!  I think the IIHF was really hard on him already, good on the NHL and the Caps for trying to help him. I don’t support drug use, nor do I do any illegal drugs (now that my favourite one is legal) but come on people, get off the high horse (pun intended) and face the real world. Not everyone goes to church on Sunday and some people blow off steam differently than others. The only person getting hurt is himself...until that changes I’m gonna keep watching these guys play hockey. 

I don't think he should have his contract canceled 

 

But saying cocaine has 0 anabolic affects on athletic performance is pretty silly if you ask me. 

 

Wouldn't surprise me if he was a guy that does lines during big games 

 

It makes u more aggressive and sharp and in control... It really should be considered as a steroid if u ask me. 

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1 hour ago, apollo said:

I don't think he should have his contract canceled 

 

But saying cocaine has 0 anabolic affects on athletic performance is pretty silly if you ask me. 

 

Wouldn't surprise me if he was a guy that does lines during big games 

 

It makes u more aggressive and sharp and in control... It really should be considered as a steroid if u ask me. 

for about 20-30 minutes and then you feel useless. it'd be something you have to keep up throughout the game. It would also decrease your awareness a whole bunch. you'd probably end up thinking you're killing it when really you're all over the ice aimlessly. there's a million things i'd rather take to do better on the ice than cocaine.

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9 minutes ago, Yung1 said:

for about 20-30 minutes and then you feel useless. it'd be something you have to keep up throughout the game. It would also decrease your awareness a whole bunch. you'd probably end up thinking you're killing it when really you're all over the ice aimlessly. there's a million things i'd rather take to do better on the ice than cocaine.

I certainly don't condone it and would never. But if they do it throughout periods for the full game, I'd see it enhancing performance. 

 

The kings are heavily rumored to have been doing it for both their cup "wins" 

 

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3 hours ago, apollo said:

I certainly don't condone it and would never. But if they do it throughout periods for the full game, I'd see it enhancing performance. 

 

The kings are heavily rumored to have been doing it for both their cup "wins" 

 

Not during the game.  You would definitely notice a player sitting on the bench doing a line.  If a guy was using as much as you're suggesting, it would be very, very noticeable. 

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3 hours ago, apollo said:

I certainly don't condone it and would never. But if they do it throughout periods for the full game, I'd see it enhancing performance. 

 

The kings are heavily rumored to have been doing it for both their cup "wins" 

 

The only literature on it that I’ve read is Probert using it once and it was a horrible experience for him.  For sure guys use it recreationally especially in the eighties when it was everywhere but you’d think since enough of them are in their late middle age that they’d have come out with stories of using and playing but none of them have - because they didn’t do it.  Factually it’s a garbage drug that’s main party purpose is to wake you up so you can drink more..cocaine is not considered a performance enhancer in the NHL for a reason.  It doesn’t make muscles or do anything that’s going to make you a better athlete.   They should be looking more into the the things that they do allow such as Toradol shots before games before they worry about junk drugs like coke.   The only stories coming out of the LA locker room had to do with Richards crossing the border with pain killers he didn’t have a prescription for.   Now there is a problem that deserves some air time.  How many  NHLers have taken those over the years for nagging injuries?  Almost everyone.  If you know more then I do about coke and LA I’d love to hear about it.   Surely that’s the reason they snuck by us and won two cups.

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7 minutes ago, IBatch said:

The only literature on it that I’ve read is Probert using it once and it was a horrible experience for him.  For sure guys use it recreationally especially in the eighties when it was everywhere but you’d think since enough of them are in their late middle age that they’d have come out with stories of using and playing but none of them have - because they didn’t do it.  Factually it’s a garbage drug that’s main party purpose is to wake you up so you can drink more..cocaine is not considered a performance enhancer in the NHL for a reason.  It doesn’t make muscles or do anything that’s going to make you a better athlete.   They should be looking more into the the things that they do allow such as Toradol shots before games before they worry about junk drugs like coke.   The only stories coming out of the LA locker room had to do with Richards crossing the border with pain killers he didn’t have a prescription for.   Now there is a problem that deserves some air time.  How many  NHLers have taken those over the years for nagging injuries?  Almost everyone.  If you know more then I do about coke and LA I’d love to hear about it.   Surely that’s the reason they snuck by us and won two cups.

https://globalnews.ca/news/2069012/kings-jarret-stoll-charged-with-felony-cocaine-possession/

 

Agree with all the rest of your post though.

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5 hours ago, apollo said:

I don't think he should have his contract canceled 

 

But saying cocaine has 0 anabolic affects on athletic performance is pretty silly if you ask me. 

 

Wouldn't surprise me if he was a guy that does lines during big games 

 

It makes u more aggressive and sharp and in control... It really should be considered as a steroid if u ask me. 

Guy Lafluer used to smoke darts between shifts.  

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7 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

How does that equate to the LA Kings snorting their way to the cup as the previous poster suggested?  He’s in Vegas and got nabbed for recreational use.  This wouldn’t make the penny saver as far as news goes back in the eighties.  He’s their third line center too, not exactly a linchpin star or Conn Smythe candidate.  I’m sure a lot of other players snort some lines every now and then but I seriously doubt any of them are doing it before games..:it just doesn’t work that way.  Go snort some coke and sprint for 45 seconds - 2:00 mins every 2-3 minutes for a couple hours - I gaurantee it won’t be fun.  

 

What they do after hours is up to them.  Only a total chronic or complete addict would even attempt this - and there is absolutely no way guys were doing lines inbetween periods (isn’t that when you take a piss and listen to what the coach wants you to do??!!) ... that said the trainers have all sorts of “candies” waiting for them if they want it in their toolbox.   If anything that’s where doping might occur. 

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3 minutes ago, IBatch said:

How does that equate to the LA Kings snorting their way to the cup as the previous poster suggested?  He’s in Vegas and got nabbed for recreational use.  This wouldn’t make the penny saver as far as news goes back in the eighties.  He’s their third line center too, not exactly a linchpin star or Conn Smythe candidate.  I’m sure a lot of other players snort some lines every now and then but I seriously doubt any of them are doing it before games..:it just doesn’t work that way.  Go snort some coke and sprint for 45 seconds - 2:00 mins every 2-3 minutes for a couple hours - I gaurantee it won’t be fun.  

 

What they do after hours is up to them.  Only a total chronic or complete addict would even attempt this - and there is absolutely no way guys were doing lines inbetween periods (isn’t that when you take a piss and listen to what the coach wants you to do??!!) ... that said the trainers have all sorts of “candies” waiting for them if they want it in their toolbox.   If anything that’s where doping might occur. 

Yep, we agree there; just giving an example of where people were getting their information from.  To suggest they're doing it during games is ludicrous. 

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13 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Guy Lafluer used to smoke darts between shifts.  

Yep.  And he’s one of the best skaters the league ever saw, plus self taught like EP so could do things never seen before.   Actually between periods.  He could score from any angle and dangle with the best of him - one of a kind for sure and much deserved top 100 player all-time.   He liked to smoke and wasn’t the only one - even guys in the 90-early 2000’s did it.   He’s just not embarrassed about it.   Probert did - Avery did too and many others occasionally.   Even some Canucks.  Quin did.  If you can’t chain smoke through an action movie in the 80’s and 90’s you couldn’t beat the bad guys right?  Must have something to do with it.

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4 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Yep.  And he’s one of the best skaters the league ever saw, plus self taught like EP so could do things never seen before.   Actually between periods.  He could score from any angle and dangle with the best of him - one of a kind for sure and much deserved top 100 player all-time.   He liked to smoke and wasn’t the only one - even guys in the 90-early 2000’s did it.   He’s just not embarrassed about it.   Probert did - Avery did too and many others occasionally.   Even some Canucks.  Quin did.  If you can’t chain smoke through an action movie in the 80’s and 90’s you couldn’t beat the bad guys right?  Must have something to do with it.

Lots of my teammates smoked during intermissions.  And that was grade nine mixed inter-mural dodgeball!  :lol: 

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37 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Yep.  And he’s one of the best skaters the league ever saw, plus self taught like EP so could do things never seen before.   Actually between periods.  He could score from any angle and dangle with the best of him - one of a kind for sure and much deserved top 100 player all-time.   He liked to smoke and wasn’t the only one - even guys in the 90-early 2000’s did it.   He’s just not embarrassed about it.   Probert did - Avery did too and many others occasionally.   Even some Canucks.  Quin did.  If you can’t chain smoke through an action movie in the 80’s and 90’s you couldn’t beat the bad guys right?  Must have something to do with it.

Lemieux's original agent was constantly trying to get him to quit.  Not sure if he ever did.

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41 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Yep.  And he’s one of the best skaters the league ever saw, plus self taught like EP so could do things never seen before.   Actually between periods.  He could score from any angle and dangle with the best of him - one of a kind for sure and much deserved top 100 player all-time.   He liked to smoke and wasn’t the only one - even guys in the 90-early 2000’s did it.   He’s just not embarrassed about it.   Probert did - Avery did too and many others occasionally.   Even some Canucks.  Quin did.  If you can’t chain smoke through an action movie in the 80’s and 90’s you couldn’t beat the bad guys right?  Must have something to do with it.

Bertuzzi did as well 

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12 hours ago, canuck73_3 said:

Bertuzzi did as well 

Kipper, Phaneuf, Risto, Ulnark a few others seen smoking - and a lot of guys chew Karlsson looks like he’s got some bad cavities in some photos - just his snuff...that’s pretty prevalent in pro hockey - and it gets spit all over the ice too which is gross.   Oh and Kadri also smokes...

 

edit: the way hockey is played in short sprints with frequent breaks coupled with the cardio work and the age of the players doesn’t mean you can’t smoke and succeed.  French Canadians smoke often still and a lot more of them used to - like Mario Lemieux - and even Jagr became a cigar afficiaondo I’d sorts...like Quin..

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15 hours ago, King Heffy said:

Not during the game.  You would definitely notice a player sitting on the bench doing a line.  If a guy was using as much as you're suggesting, it would be very, very noticeable. 

They do use smelling salts while on the bench. It would be a simple thing to substitute cocaine.

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On 8/23/2019 at 8:38 AM, Alflives said:

For you and me and most I agree.  However, employees of private companies behaviour can hurt the business’s bottom line.  In those cases employees can and are fired.  

Hmmm, not necessarily.  EAP was sort of developed on the concept that people are human beings and, therefore, will have "issues".  And most companies will provide opportunity for assistance in order to resolve the issues and be a better employee/person.

 

Hockey is like any other profession, in that, he should be offered help to overcome any drug issues he may have and then the expectation is that he follows that path.

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