[Speculation] Boeser not close to extension

[mll]

12 hours ago, 18W-40C-6W said:

Yes, the problem has become that somewhere along the line, agents were able to convince some gms to start paying ufa numbers at RFA levels. This has caused the issue in the league of very small windows for teams to win before cap issue hit them as they are now paying younger players money that typically went to them at 28/29 once they’d earned it. It used to be rookie contract for 3 years,  stud player gets a 4-5year bridge at 4-5 mil then PAID at 27/28 Now they are getting that ufa money at 22. I’d be curious to look back and seen what contracts started this, and who were the gms

It seems to be the last 3 years where there has been a shift.

 

In 2014 Kekalainen refused to give in to Johansen's salary demands with Davidson even going to the media to talk of how unreasonable his ask was - he finally signed in October.   In 2016, Trouba held out until November.   

 

At the end of June 2016 Jones signed for 5.4M in Columbus and 2 days later Tom Rowe gave Ekblad 7.5M.  Things seem to have escalated further a year later with Draisaitl getting 8.5M after a 77pt season.  

 

There was also those UFA signings in 2016 where several veterans haven't lived up to their contracts just one year in - Ladd, Eriksson Backes with others adding themselves to that list over time.  Agents/young players no longer feel it's fair that they are paid less than guys who are not contributing as much as they are to the success of their teams. 

 

It could get even more problematic with agents looking at Matthews' contract.   Point's agent talked about how it opened up new options.  Tkachuk made reference to it when talking of his own situation. Matthews will be a free agent before he even turns 27.  He can negotiate another high contract to make allowance for the increase in cap and on the team of his own choosing.  

 

Edited June 2, 2019 by mll

[DrJockitch]

56 minutes ago, mll said:

It seems to be the last 3 years where there has been a shift.

 

In 2014 Kekalainen refused to give in to Johansen's salary demands with Davidson even going to the media to talk of how unreasonable his ask was - he finally signed in October.   In 2016, Trouba held out until November.   

 

At the end of June 2016 Jones signed for 5.4M in Columbus and 2 days later Tom Rowe gave Ekblad 7.5M.  Things seem to have escalated further a year later with Draisaitl getting 8.5M after a 77pt season.  

 

There was also those UFA signings in 2016 where several veterans haven't lived up to their contracts just one year in - Ladd, Eriksson Backes with others adding themselves to that list over time.  Agents/young players no longer feel it's fair that they are paid less than guys who are not contributing as much as they are to the success of their teams. 

 

It could get even more problematic with agents looking at Matthews' contract.   Point's agent talked about how it opened up new options.  Tkachuk made reference to it when talking of his own situation. Matthews will be a free agent before he even turns 27.  He can negotiate another high contract to make allowance for the increase in cap and on the team of his own choosing.  

 

All good points, can't use UFAs as a comparison, or at least shouldn't be able to.  As you highlighted though some GMs have just not been willing to make that stand.

Brock is the type of guy that should sign a classic bridge deal or something like Matthew's that end early enough that he can sign a long deal later as the cap goes up.  I think he should be bridged because as much as I think he is a great player and seems like a great person there certainly should be some red flags there.

He has played 2 seasons, had multiple wrist surgeries, a near career ending back injury and a significant groin injury.  He also plays wing.  Right wing is that the easiest position to replace. 

Again a big fan but he should be signing for 2-3 years somewhere around Bo money.  Won't happen but that is likely what should happen.

In what world is Ekblad worth more than Jones.  If I was building a D Jones would be close to the top of my list with his youth skating and all around game.  If he was in a big city he would get more of the attention he deserves.  Ekblad is good, don't get me wrong but Jones is top tier.  Man Ekblad is a dirty player as well, hacks the feet and ankles all game long.  He is like Chelios in that he just keeps taking cheap, dirty shots all game long and since the refs can't call all of it they mostly call none of it.

[theo5789]

2 hours ago, DrJockitch said:

All good points, can't use UFAs as a comparison, or at least shouldn't be able to.  As you highlighted though some GMs have just not been willing to make that stand.

Brock is the type of guy that should sign a classic bridge deal or something like Matthew's that end early enough that he can sign a long deal later as the cap goes up.  I think he should be bridged because as much as I think he is a great player and seems like a great person there certainly should be some red flags there.

He has played 2 seasons, had multiple wrist surgeries, a near career ending back injury and a significant groin injury.  He also plays wing.  Right wing is that the easiest position to replace. 

Again a big fan but he should be signing for 2-3 years somewhere around Bo money.  Won't happen but that is likely what should happen.

In what world is Ekblad worth more than Jones.  If I was building a D Jones would be close to the top of my list with his youth skating and all around game.  If he was in a big city he would get more of the attention he deserves.  Ekblad is good, don't get me wrong but Jones is top tier.  Man Ekblad is a dirty player as well, hacks the feet and ankles all game long.  He is like Chelios in that he just keeps taking cheap, dirty shots all game long and since the refs can't call all of it they mostly call none of it.

That is the difference between signing a guy above his value and hoping he becomes a projected view versus paying a player what he is worth at the time of the deal. Both good dmen, but Jones is far more valuable at the lower cost. Ekblad does have 3 more years to his deal, but at what point are they going to be "saving" on that contract? Jones has a shorter deal, but gave the team a very healthy window to compete and he will be paid well once his deal is up and rightfully so.

[Jetliner]

trade brock and horvat for mcdavid, get it done JB

[theo5789]

34 minutes ago, Jetliner said:

trade brock and horvat for mcdavid, get it done JB

McDavid is certainly skilled no doubt, but I don't get a good team vibe from him. I rather have a team of guys that are playing for each other. It has a greater effect than individual stats especially when everyone buys in.

[The Lock]

10 hours ago, theo5789 said:

McDavid is certainly skilled no doubt, but I don't get a good team vibe from him. I rather have a team of guys that are playing for each other. It has a greater effect than individual stats especially when everyone buys in.

Next year will likely show us whether McDavid's a team player or not. If he can't show us that team player vibe under Tippett then what coach is he going to be able to show it under?

[NewbieCanuckFan]

12 hours ago, theo5789 said:

McDavid is certainly skilled no doubt, but I don't get a good team vibe from him. I rather have a team of guys that are playing for each other. It has a greater effect than individual stats especially when everyone buys in.

Tough for anyone to look good in that cesspool of an organization.  And frankly nothing else brings a smile to my face.  Well....unless it's the Laffs or Flamers 

Edited June 3, 2019 by NewbieCanuckFan

[theo5789]

16 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Tough for anyone to look good in that cesspool of an organization.  And frankly nothing else brings a smile to my face.  Well....unless it's the Laffs or Flamers 

The question is does he contribute to the cesspool? He really doesn't exude captain material to me other than being a go-to offensive player. He's no Sidney Crosby in this regard. Probably not a popular opinion to suggest McDavid isn't the greatest team guy and I really have nothing to base it on other than my own feeling/personal opinion.

[stawns]

On 6/2/2019 at 7:11 AM, DrJockitch said:

All good points, can't use UFAs as a comparison, or at least shouldn't be able to.  As you highlighted though some GMs have just not been willing to make that stand.

Brock is the type of guy that should sign a classic bridge deal or something like Matthew's that end early enough that he can sign a long deal later as the cap goes up.  I think he should be bridged because as much as I think he is a great player and seems like a great person there certainly should be some red flags there.

He has played 2 seasons, had multiple wrist surgeries, a near career ending back injury and a significant groin injury.  He also plays wing.  Right wing is that the easiest position to replace. 

Again a big fan but he should be signing for 2-3 years somewhere around Bo money.  Won't happen but that is likely what should happen.

In what world is Ekblad worth more than Jones.  If I was building a D Jones would be close to the top of my list with his youth skating and all around game.  If he was in a big city he would get more of the attention he deserves.  Ekblad is good, don't get me wrong but Jones is top tier.  Man Ekblad is a dirty player as well, hacks the feet and ankles all game long.  He is like Chelios in that he just keeps taking cheap, dirty shots all game long and since the refs can't call all of it they mostly call none of it.

if he wants more than Bo and long term, I'd be more than happy to see Benning move him for a big return.  BB isn't a play driver and shouldn't be paid like one.  He is a sniper, but he is a secondary player on a line, relying mainly on his teammates to get him the puck in scoring areas.  He's a great player, but he isn't worth a massive contract that will hamstring the team.

[stawns]

2 hours ago, theo5789 said:

The question is does he contribute to the cesspool? He really doesn't exude captain material to me other than being a go-to offensive player. He's no Sidney Crosby in this regard. Probably not a popular opinion to suggest McDavid isn't the greatest team guy and I really have nothing to base it on other than my own feeling/personal opinion.

I like McD, but I'd agree with that assessment.  I think they bowed to media/league pressure and gave him the C far too early.  It was a foregone conclusion that he was going to get the C at some point, but they really should have let him grow into it, imo.

[Where'd Luongo?]

Would you guys be happy if JB signed him to a max length contract for $6M / season but he had to give him a NMC to get it done?

Edited June 3, 2019 by Where'd Luongo?

[Sbriggs]

On 6/1/2019 at 2:18 PM, CptCanuck16 said:

Agreed. Expecting more than $6-6.5m when you are a 20 goal scorer with only two years experience under your belt is laughable. Let Brock shop around, he won't find any other teams willing to pay him $9-10m and the Canucks shouldn't either. 

How do you know he wants 9-10 mil? We have no idea what is holding this up maybe its term. I hardly think he's looking for 9-10 mil and hasn't broken 30 goals yet

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, stawns said:

if he wants more than Bo and long term, I'd be more than happy to see Benning move him for a big return.  BB isn't a play driver and shouldn't be paid like one.  He is a sniper, but he is a secondary player on a line, relying mainly on his teammates to get him the puck in scoring areas.  He's a great player, but he isn't worth a massive contract that will hamstring the team.

So Benning does a Hall like deal and gets booed forever.   Who would you think he could trade for?  Parayoko? Have Sanheim or Provorov?  There is a lot of risk in doing this, we could end up on the losing side easily.   If he becomes a PPG 40-50 goal scorer in his prime ... well it would have to be one hell of a defenseman or player coming the other way.   Just pay the man and be done with it.  Going to be a long summer the longer this goes on, and Boeser doesn’t need to rush with all the other top tier RFAs up...in fact the longer he waits the higher the likelihood of more ammunition...same with the rest of the group.  

[IBatch]

38 minutes ago, Where'd Luongo? said:

Would you guys be happy if JB signed him to a max length contract for $6M / season but he had to give him a NMC to get it done?

Absolutely.   That would be the deal of the decade for us.   It’s not like we aren’t going to protect him from expansion anyways, and at that price our cap would be in great shape going forward.  I’d do it for 7.0 even. 

[mll]

56 minutes ago, Where'd Luongo? said:

Would you guys be happy if JB signed him to a max length contract for $6M / season but he had to give him a NMC to get it done?

NMC only possible on years 6, 7 and 8.  The 1st 5 years are RFA years and trade clauses aren't permitted on RFA years.  

 

Boeser might prefer to bet on himself and do like Matthews.  Take 5 years to reach free agency and then negotiate another contract to allow for the increase in cap and have the freedom to choose his team - he knows that he'll get plenty of interest.

 

Edited June 3, 2019 by mll

[spur1]

Either way we will know by October. 

[DrJockitch]

4 hours ago, stawns said:

if he wants more than Bo and long term, I'd be more than happy to see Benning move him for a big return.  BB isn't a play driver and shouldn't be paid like one.  He is a sniper, but he is a secondary player on a line, relying mainly on his teammates to get him the puck in scoring areas.  He's a great player, but he isn't worth a massive contract that will hamstring the team.

I think taking Bo money for two years is fair.  Then he can look at a longer deal and still be young enough to get another contract.

Not in any way condoning moving him.  He started good and is getting better. 

Just feel that with his injuries, he probably hasn't shown enough for a big, long extension.  

We need wingers, don't need to move our best one out. 

Petterson is a play driver and sniper.  

Only truly special players do it all.

Guys like Kessel are important too and I think Brock will be a better player than Kessel was/is.

Still need another couple snipers, and probably another play driver. 

Soon we will find out what Quinn can be a play driver at the NHL level.

 

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

I think taking Bo money for two years is fair.  Then he can look at a longer deal and still be young enough to get another contract.

Not in any way condoning moving him.  He started good and is getting better. 

Just feel that with his injuries, he probably hasn't shown enough for a big, long extension.  

We need wingers, don't need to move our best one out. 

Petterson is a play driver and sniper.  

Only truly special players do it all.

Guys like Kessel are important too and I think Brock will be a better player than Kessel was/is.

Still need another couple snipers, and probably another play driver. 

Soon we will find out what Quinn can be a play driver at the NHL level.

 

I think Boeser, considering that back injury he suffered before, might be wanting a long term deal.  

[DrJockitch]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

I think Boeser, considering that back injury he suffered before, might be wanting a long term deal.  

Yeah, a long term deal should come at a discount given how few NHL games he has actually had.  

Mostly very good games but not a lot of them.  

[Alflives]

Just now, DrJockitch said:

Yeah, a long term deal should come at a discount given how few NHL games he has actually had.  

Mostly very good games but not a lot of them.  

That’s my thinking too.  If Ntock gets the security of a long term, he might take less than if it was a shorter term.  7x7?