NDP set to unveil $15-billion climate plan that would slash greenhouse gas emissions

[sam13371337]

just look at the attitudes of other countries when it come to environmental issues.

 

the ganges a sacred river in India that has such a special place in both tangibile and spiritual terms for India. is literally one of the most polluted dirtiest things on planet earth.   

 

 

 

 

if this is the attitude of polluting countries when it comes to environmental issues.  forget taxes to Ottawa, the entire Canadian population could commit mass suicide, remove itself from the planet and it still wouldn't be a drop in the ocean.. 

 

is it worth it to ruin our economy to give the government a new cash cow, and let some virtue signallers feel good about themselves?

[MystifyNCrucify]

9 hours ago, kingofsurrey said:

Are u alluding to albertas current wildfires ???

Thats really a stupid thing to say, but not surprising coming from you. Vancouver is owned by dirty foreign money, and the best you can come up with is that albertans deserve forest fires?

 

If the fire was in the okanagan would they also deserve it? 

[Russ]

19 hours ago, goalie13 said:

It's easy to say whatever you want when there's no chance of actually forming government.

Exactly its a lot of talk when chances are they will the the 4th or 5th party in total votes at the end of the day.  Even PPC might get more with a lot of support I seem to see these days and we know Greens will have more following than the NDP.  The Federal NDP can go screw themselves, they are the last party I want to see in power.

[Russ]

5 hours ago, sam13371337 said:

just look at the attitudes of other countries when it come to environmental issues.

 

the ganges a sacred river in India that has such a special place in both tangibile and spiritual terms for India. is literally one of the most polluted dirtiest things on planet earth.   

 

 

 

 

if this is the attitude of polluting countries when it comes to environmental issues.  forget taxes to Ottawa, the entire Canadian population could commit mass suicide, remove itself from the planet and it still wouldn't be a drop in the ocean.. 

 

is it worth it to ruin our economy to give the government a new cash cow, and let some virtue signallers feel good about themselves?

Wow juts wow..... I can't believe anyone would ever go anywhere near that river or get drinking water from it.

[thejazz97]

6 hours ago, sam13371337 said:

jaghmeet and Trudeau can tax everyone to death.  and it wouldn't be a drop in the ocean.   

 

why are there idiots still alive that believe the governments 1 stop solution to every problem is..... more taxes!!!!? how gullible and stupid can the human species get? 

 

if global warming is the earth ending issue, then  squeezing more taxes out of Canadians is not the solution.  You boycott, blockade, sanction, or outright declare war on countries like china and india whos farts in the air create more pollution then all of Canada put together.  

 

 

Best thing we can do is to set an example for the rest of the world. I believe Ireland (ran by conservatives) are looking to copy how our carbon tax works, Democrat candidate Pete Buttigieg has included a carbon tax in his platform IIRC, and China's had carbon regulations for years. Alberta was using roughly the same plan proposed by the CPC back in 2008(?). The world is, overall, heading in that direction. Making enemies of India and China - the two most populous countries on the planet - is not going to make things better.

 

More taxes, by the way, allows for the government to provide more services. While I think people shouldn't be taxed more than what they should be able to afford, it does help to provide a stronger society. ~20% for someone making 35k (7k in tax) is fine, but 50% (17.5k) would not be, unless the services they were getting would be significantly more. For someone who's making, say, 600k, 33% is a lot more reasonable, because they still have 400k to live on. They aren't being overtaxed. And they can still receive most of the essential services that tax money provides - healthcare, roads, police, fire dept, education, national security, public transit, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. There's something to be said for earning what you make, and keeping what you earn, but some people make far more than what they earn.

[Ryan Strome]

1 hour ago, thejazz97 said:

Best thing we can do is to set an example for the rest of the world. I believe Ireland (ran by conservatives) are looking to copy how our carbon tax works, Democrat candidate Pete Buttigieg has included a carbon tax in his platform IIRC, and China's had carbon regulations for years. Alberta was using roughly the same plan proposed by the CPC back in 2008(?). The world is, overall, heading in that direction. Making enemies of India and China - the two most populous countries on the planet - is not going to make things better.

 

More taxes, by the way, allows for the government to provide more services. While I think people shouldn't be taxed more than what they should be able to afford, it does help to provide a stronger society. ~20% for someone making 35k (7k in tax) is fine, but 50% (17.5k) would not be, unless the services they were getting would be significantly more. For someone who's making, say, 600k, 33% is a lot more reasonable, because they still have 400k to live on. They aren't being overtaxed. And they can still receive most of the essential services that tax money provides - healthcare, roads, police, fire dept, education, national security, public transit, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. There's something to be said for earning what you make, and keeping what you earn, but some people make far more than what they earn.

Straight out of the ndp playbook... Punish those who study and work hard to make money or punish business. More taxes on people and business have failed time and time again but yet some figure it could still work. Look at all the failures of the ndp in Ab and city council in Calgary... Both are tax and spend left wing governments and you see the mess both are in and the average joe and small business are the ones suffering. Boart lomgyear is leaving Alberta for Saskatchewan yet your policies would have them leaving back to Alberta.

[Ryan Strome]

@thejazz97 Tell me what you think of this, I will also bring in @Jimmy McGill because also loves taxes, kind of like a chong conservative. 

 

So what if we raised the gst to 10%? That should generate 30-40 billion annually and with that we have universal/national dental plan, pharmacare and daycare? Certainly the increased gst would cover that and then some. We could use the left over for investments for our military, green tech initiatives and lowering corporate taxes. Obviously I don't support taxes but these initiatives would put more parents to work, possibly cutting back a little on mass immigration. We would also have healthier children and our seniors would get the care they need.

 

The downside is places like BC and Sask with pst's at 7 and 6 percent that tax bill would start to get excessive for everyone outside Alberta.

 

Feel free to tell me what you guys think. @ForsbergTheGreat I know you're anti tax like myself could you be alright with a plan like this? Would either party propose it?

 

I came up with this idea a few weeks ago based on polls that showed strong majorities support having  these programs but are people prepared to pay for them? 

 

 

Edited June 1, 2019 by Ryan Strome

[thejazz97]

14 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

Straight out of the ndp playbook... Punish those who study and work hard to make money or punish business. More taxes on people and business have failed time and time again but yet some figure it could still work. Look at all the failures of the ndp in Ab and city council in Calgary... Both are tax and spend left wing governments and you see the mess both are in and the average joe and small business are the ones suffering. Boart lomgyear is leaving Alberta for Saskatchewan yet your policies would have them leaving back to Alberta.

Norway's doing alright for themselves. Most of Scandinavia is. Denmark as well. America was doing alright when they had the 90% wealth tax. And while the ANDP weren't perfect, they only had what the previous 40 years of Conservative govt left them to work with.

 

Federal governments, IMO, should tax high(er) and spend high(er). Provincial governments and municipal governments should strive to keep a relatively balanced budget, but cutting things to get one for only the short-term is shortsighted and wrong. Debt is okay, but what Wynne was doing in Ontario was ridiculous (what Ford is doing now is worse, but it's beside the point). I can't speak to Calgary's city council. 

 

And it's not punishing. Think of it as a social contract.  

 

Just so you're aware, I do support the TMX. I probably find myself along Trudeau's lines, where trying to balance the economy and environment winds up with a price on carbon emissions and a pipeline here or there. That being said, the subsidization of oil companies needs to end. If it's a strong industry, it doesn't need subsidization and the $3b+ can be saved or spent elsewhere. If it's a weak industry, then perhaps we're better looking at getting ahead of the curve when it comes to technology and subsidizing other, cleaner, greener types of energy companies. No need to try to save the cart-and-buggy industry.

 

I do find the NDP's proposal here spectacularly ambitious, though. I wish other parties would follow suit - in attitude, at least - towards fighting climate change.

 

In response to your second post, I do think we should raise the GST, but by 2%, not 10%. If it hadn't been cut down to 5 in the first place, maybe Harper wouldn't have needed to create recessions in the first place  

[kingofsurrey]

6 hours ago, MystifyNCrucify said:

Thats really a stupid thing to say, but not surprising coming from you. Vancouver is owned by dirty foreign money, and the best you can come up with is that albertans deserve forest fires?

 

If the fire was in the okanagan would they also deserve it? 

No one deserves a catastrophe.......  wow really you are going to far on this one.

 

But soon we as humans will need to see our industrial activities are in fact contributing to climate change.  Climate change deniers like you are slowly disappearing luckily though...

Edited June 1, 2019 by kingofsurrey

[kingofsurrey]

9 hours ago, Violator said:

All started by alberta obviously

Climate change is real.   People need to start to put our environment ahead of personal profit.

That is pretty tough for many people but more and more people are starting to realize our planet is in crisis. 

[Ryan Strome]

9 minutes ago, thejazz97 said:

Norway's doing alright for themselves. Most of Scandinavia is. Denmark as well. America was doing alright when they had the 90% wealth tax. And while the ANDP weren't perfect, they only had what the previous 40 years of Conservative govt left them to work with.

 

Federal governments, IMO, should tax high(er) and spend high(er). Provincial governments and municipal governments should strive to keep a relatively balanced budget, but cutting things to get one for only the short-term is shortsighted and wrong. Debt is okay, but what Wynne was doing in Ontario was ridiculous (what Ford is doing now is worse, but it's beside the point). I can't speak to Calgary's city council. 

 

And it's not punishing. Think of it as a social contract.  

 

Just so you're aware, I do support the TMX. I probably find myself along Trudeau's lines, where trying to balance the economy and environment winds up with a price on carbon emissions and a pipeline here or there. That being said, the subsidization of oil companies needs to end. If it's a strong industry, it doesn't need subsidization and the $3b+ can be saved or spent elsewhere. If it's a weak industry, then perhaps we're better looking at getting ahead of the curve when it comes to technology and subsidizing other, cleaner, greener types of energy companies. No need to try to save the cart-and-buggy industry.

 

I do find the NDP's proposal here spectacularly ambitious, though. I wish other parties would follow suit - in attitude, at least - towards fighting climate change.

 

In response to your second post, I do think we should raise the GST, but by 2%, not 10%. If it hadn't been cut down to 5 in the first place, maybe Harper wouldn't have needed to create recessions in the first place  

The worst recession in 100 years wasn't created by Harper. As for corporate welfare I oppose however we in Canada make it harder on business than nearly anyone in the free world. 

 

A carbon tax is a complete joke. Alberta's and Canada's emmisions each went up. I believe BC's has gone up almost every year since implementing their carbon tax scheme. Lets invest in jobs and build luxury high speed rail from Saskatoon to Regina, Calgary to Edmonton, throughout the golden horseshoe in southern Ontario, the whole lower mainland, etc. 

 

Raising it back to 7% wouldn't pay for my proposal... Well maybe in a ndp world.

[Ryan Strome]

12 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

Climate change is real.   People need to start to put our environment ahead of personal profit.

That is pretty tough for many people but more and more people are starting to realize our planet is in crisis. 

Certainly not the people in Australia or the United States.

[thejazz97]

1 minute ago, Ryan Strome said:

The worst recession in 100 years wasn't created by Harper. As for corporate welfare I oppose however we in Canada make it harder on business than nearly anyone in the free world. 

 

A carbon tax is a complete joke. Alberta's and Canada's emmisions each went up. I believe BC's has gone up almost every year since implementing their carbon tax scheme. Lets invest in jobs and build luxury high speed rail from Saskatoon to Regina, Calgary to Edmonton, throughout the golden horseshoe in southern Ontario, the whole lower mainland, etc. 

 

Raising it back to 7% wouldn't pay for my proposal... Well maybe in a ndp world.

Harper started his deficits a year before the recession. Obviously the recession didn't help, but you'd think an economist could've had the foresight for the biggest recession in 100 years. Business will always be around no matter what regulations - abolition of slavery, abolition of child labour, creation of weekends, taxes, minimum wage, etc - it just needs to know the rules of the game. Uncertainty is the only thing businesses absolutely can't work with.

 

I agree, we should be investing into high speed rail. Airplanes are disastrous for carbon emissions.

[Ryan Strome]

19 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

No one deserves a catastrophe.......  wow really you are going to far on this one.

 

But soon we as humans will need to see our industrial activities are in fact contributing to climate change.  Climate change deniers like you are slowly disappearing luckily though...

So we go broke and make no difference to the environment?

 

Let me know when you get China, India and the U.S on board.

[JM_]

43 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

 

 

So what if we raised the gst to 10%? That should generate 30-40 billion annually and with that we have universal/national dental plan, pharmacare and daycare? Certainly the increased gst would cover that and then some. We could use the left over for investments for our military, green tech initiatives and lowering corporate taxes. Obviously I don't support taxes but these initiatives would put more parents to work, possibly cutting back a little on mass immigration. We would also have healthier children and our seniors would get the care they need.

 

The downside is places like BC and Sask with pst's at 7 and 6 percent that tax bill would start to get excessive for everyone outside Alberta.

 

 

 

this kind of idea is common in many countries - there is a basic fairness to consumption taxes that makes sense, and its not even close to the value added taxes seen in Europe. 

 

a "Chong conservative" ouch 

 

Edited June 1, 2019 by Jimmy McGill

[Ryan Strome]

3 minutes ago, thejazz97 said:

Harper started his deficits a year before the recession. Obviously the recession didn't help, but you'd think an economist could've had the foresight for the biggest recession in 100 years. Business will always be around no matter what regulations - abolition of slavery, abolition of child labour, creation of weekends, taxes, minimum wage, etc - it just needs to know the rules of the game. Uncertainty is the only thing businesses absolutely can't work with.

 

I agree, we should be investing into high speed rail. Airplanes are disastrous for carbon emissions.

I would cut corporate welfare, the carbon tax, some red tape and lower the corporate tax to 8% but business is on their own, make or break..

 

I would only offer certain rebates based on job creation for veterans, first nations people, youth and peoples with disabilities.

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

I would cut corporate welfare, the carbon tax, some red tape and lower the corporate tax to 8% but business is on their own, make or break..

 

I would only offer certain rebates based on job creation for veterans, first nations people, youth and peoples with disabilities.

are you sure that you're not a red tory in hiding? 

 

I could get behind all of this. 

[Ryan Strome]

2 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

this kind of idea is common in many countries - there is a basic fairness to consumption taxes that makes sense, and its not even close to the value added taxes seen in Europe. 

 

a "Chong conservative" ouch 

 

Did you just say my plan emulates European countries? 

[kingofsurrey]

10 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

So we go broke and make no difference to the environment?

 

Let me know when you get China, India and the U.S on board.

I thought oil , natural gas and electricity was less than 10% of Canada GNP.....

 

I don't think Canada will go broke by reducing bitumen production.  Scare tactics by Big Oil  simply won't work any longer.....

Edited June 1, 2019 by kingofsurrey

[Ryan Strome]

3 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

I thought oil , natural gas and electricity was less than 10% of Canada GNP.....

 

I don't think Canada will go broke by reducing bitumen production.  Scare tactics by Big Oil  simply won't work any longer.....

The economy came to a grinding halt when wcs crashed. Canada would also lose the billions in equalization from Alberta.