2020 Draft Said To Be Best Since 2003 Draft

[Samgagner'sface]

7 hours ago, HOFsedins said:

I did watch him growing up. It is just my opinion of 2 players that Ive had to pleasure to watch during their careers. Gretzky, Kurri and Coffey was just unfair and nuts. But I feel the game today is just so much faster and rougher. He was never fast but just had exceptional hockey IQ. You have to remember that goals were scored alot more back in the day. So I think his stats are inflated. Could you honestly tell me you believe he could rack up all those points he currently has in today's game?

 

Look, at the end of the day, I dont think Crosby is nowhere near Gretzky on talent level. It is just a personal opinion primed for argument deservedly so. 

Unsure  of how many goals and points he would get in today's game,  but an interesting way to look at Gretzky's dominance was how far  away second place was when he was winning scoring titles. 

[IBatch]

6 hours ago, Samgagner'sface said:

Unsure  of how many goals and points he would get in today's game,  but an interesting way to look at Gretzky's dominance was how far  away second place was when he was winning scoring titles. 

Another way to do it is see who he was outproducing in the second half of his career, and out of those players who was better then the next crop etc.etc...if Gretzky could outscore Hull, Yzerman, Jagr, Bure, Selanne, Modano, Federov, Sakic etc, as a 33 year old when they were in their primes, and when these guys were older they still held up well against the likes of Naslund, Bertuzzi, and Iginla in their primes....and so on, you can make a case pretty easily that he could play in today’s game and still dominate.   He’s not like Ovi who scores his goals based on shot volume and ability,  so better SP wouldn’t make as much of a difference for his goal totals as people think, plus what is the average percentage difference between .888 and .915 anyways? Or later on when SP in the 90’s rose above .905 and .910 which is close to the average average sp of the past 20 years?   He did play his last few years in the dead puck era too....and even Jagr managed to get some points back then too, part of it was a lack of skill too in my mind...Bure could still score, same with Selanne, same with Sakic, Naslund and Bertuzzi for a couple years did ok too.

 

Anyways no he would not score as much today, for a few reasons.  One you could never keep that team together for long, although they were all close to the same age so maybe you’d get two of his 200 point like years in there ... which based on sp difference alone  would be less then 10% change but let’s go with that anyways, so 215 points would become 194 ish.   Still pretty gaudy.   And 92 goals would become 83....still not  bad considering the most anyone has scored since Ovi came in is Ovi at 65...Ovi is still grea.  For those that doubt he could try and find and early 90s vhs tape called his 50 greatest goals....some eye popping stuff.   Like a snap shot off a face off through all the guys far top corner.  As far as accuracy goes that was one laser beam.    And just like EP he could hammer the puck.

 

Its nice to see scoring up again too.  It’s more exciting.

[IBatch]

6 hours ago, Samgagner'sface said:

Unsure  of how many goals and points he would get in today's game,  but an interesting way to look at Gretzky's dominance was how far  away second place was when he was winning scoring titles. 

One more thing.  When Gretzky was scoring 200 plus points the rest of the best was scoring 100....maybe I should have just said that and left it at there.  

[mll]

New Jersey feels that this draft is stronger:

 

[HKSR]

7 hours ago, IBatch said:

One more thing.  When Gretzky was scoring 200 plus points the rest of the best was scoring 100....maybe I should have just said that and left it at there.  

That's all there is to the argument.  Comparing apples to apples.  Gretzky with 200+ pts, and the next guy is about 50% less.  So in today's NHL?  That means Kucherov would have had to have scored 174 pts this season (in Gretzky terms) lol. 

 

There's no argument here.

[IBatch]

34 minutes ago, HKSR said:

That's all there is to the argument.  Comparing apples to apples.  Gretzky with 200+ pts, and the next guy is about 50% less.  So in today's NHL?  That means Kucherov would have had to have scored 174 pts this season (in Gretzky terms) lol. 

 

There's no argument here.

The U-tube generation may have taken some shine out of Gretzky’s records..until you start looking deeper and the quality of competition he played against, which to be frank, I think was the best this league has ever seen.  Hawerchuk and Yzerman would have been multiple Hart winners if it weren’t for Gretzky and Lemuiex.  If he’s better then them, and Yzerman is still one of the best players in the league in 2002...on one leg actually on no legs both his knees were shot...against guys that played against guys that are currently playing then you have to say OK aye he was really a few levels above everyone else.  When he’s outscoring Jagr when he’s in his prime without any real support (his last Art Ross)...then that pretty much closes any debate against him. 

 

Even today when the first ten years of his career would decimate the record books.  He was so good he saved the league and helped expansion into the US as Hollywood was crazy over him.  Messier too I hate to say it, they were legendary before they were 30, and it carried through right until he retired.  

[filthycanuck]

On 6/2/2019 at 2:55 PM, Roger Neilsons Towel said:

I would have to agree. Crosby was and is just too dominant. The stats don’t lie. 

 

 

 

Crosby is a generational talent but nowhere near Gretzky. 

I’m going to guess that you are too young to have seen Gretzky play. 

If Crosby is generational, Gretzky and Mario are once in a lifetime

[filthycanuck]

19 hours ago, IBatch said:

Another way to do it is see who he was outproducing in the second half of his career, and out of those players who was better then the next crop etc.etc...if Gretzky could outscore Hull, Yzerman, Jagr, Bure, Selanne, Modano, Federov, Sakic etc, as a 33 year old when they were in their primes, and when these guys were older they still held up well against the likes of Naslund, Bertuzzi, and Iginla in their primes....and so on, you can make a case pretty easily that he could play in today’s game and still dominate.   He’s not like Ovi who scores his goals based on shot volume and ability,  so better SP wouldn’t make as much of a difference for his goal totals as people think, plus what is the average percentage difference between .888 and .915 anyways? Or later on when SP in the 90’s rose above .905 and .910 which is close to the average average sp of the past 20 years?   He did play his last few years in the dead puck era too....and even Jagr managed to get some points back then too, part of it was a lack of skill too in my mind...Bure could still score, same with Selanne, same with Sakic, Naslund and Bertuzzi for a couple years did ok too.

 

Anyways no he would not score as much today, for a few reasons.  One you could never keep that team together for long, although they were all close to the same age so maybe you’d get two of his 200 point like years in there ... which based on sp difference alone  would be less then 10% change but let’s go with that anyways, so 215 points would become 194 ish.   Still pretty gaudy.   And 92 goals would become 83....still not  bad considering the most anyone has scored since Ovi came in is Ovi at 65...Ovi is still grea.  For those that doubt he could try and find and early 90s vhs tape called his 50 greatest goals....some eye popping stuff.   Like a snap shot off a face off through all the guys far top corner.  As far as accuracy goes that was one laser beam.    And just like EP he could hammer the puck.

 

Its nice to see scoring up again too.  It’s more exciting.

There could also be an an arguement made on the technology on what todays players have. Gretz, Mario, Modano all played with inferior gear and most notably the sticks. Todays sticks are a galaxies from the wood, or aluminum shaft twigs they were using before. I mean, could you IMAGINE Brett Hull, Al Macinnis using one piece sticks lke what they have today? They'd be putting holes through goalies

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, filthycanuck said:

There could also be an an arguement made on the technology on what todays players have. Gretz, Mario, Modano all played with inferior gear and most notably the sticks. Todays sticks are a galaxies from the wood, or aluminum shaft twigs they were using before. I mean, could you IMAGINE Brett Hull, Al Macinnis using one piece sticks lke what they have today? They'd be putting holes through goalies

Old Al, early composite sticks were in by then (and did help hit harder but also broke a lot)  and he’d still blast his 100 plus mph shots with his wooden faves....good point ... no red line would help too..

[aGENT]

On 6/1/2019 at 3:11 PM, theo5789 said:

If 2020 is going to be a strong draft year (assuming that means a deep draft year) then shouldn't that be more incentive to make the playoffs and get as far as possible because you'll likely still end up with a pretty good player late in the 1st round anyway?

 

For example, in the 2nd half of the 1st round in 2003, there was Parise, Getzlaf, Burns, Kesler, Perry, and Richards with some secondary guys like Stuart, Eaves, Boyle, Fehr and Bernier who had decent lasting careers. There were some major busts still in that top 15. This just goes to show that tanking doesn't really matter still as the top end of the draft wasn't necessarily stronger than the bottom, but there was simply a lot of NHL players to come from the group. And looking at that list, if I had to do a re-draft for 1st overall, I think I would pick Bergeron who was drafted in the 2nd round (middle of the round).

 

Agreed. The only thing this might effect is when we move guys like Sutter or Tanev (if we even move them for picks). If Benning feels he can extract more value by moving them later and/or for next year's picks, then that's what he'll do. Otherwise, we just keep trucking along rebuilding and ignoring all the armchair GM's who are sure they had better plans.