[Proposal] VAN-TOR (Weaponizing Cap Space)

[NuckForReal!!!]

3 minutes ago, The Lock said:

It would be the more expensive way for them to do so. It would be only easy because it's expensive since there are likely many cheaper paths for Dubas to take and he would likely keep his 2nd rounder in doing so. He might even keep all of his picks!

 

It's not the other GM in the driver's seat if there is more than one team who would be interested in Marleau, which is a more likely scenario in my opinion.

Tell me a cheaper and easier way to do so

[NuckForReal!!!]

2 minutes ago, WHL rocks said:

We are not the only other team in the league. They don't need a favour from us.  

 

Actually the favour would be to us if they gave us Kapanen or a 2nd rounder to take Marleau. 

 

They can trade him to a number of teams for nothing close to that. 

 

Datsyuk went to AZ as a cap dump. His cap hit was 7.5 million 3 years ago. So like 8.5 mill today. 

 

It cost DET the 16th overall for AZ 20th 53rd over all + Joe Vitale. 

 

So AZ took on Datsyuks 7.5 mill cap hit to to move up 4 spots in a draft AND they gave up the 2nd round pick to move up. 

 

What if Datsyuk wasn't involved. Just to move up 4 spots they would give up pretty close to what they gave up. Maybe the same package even. AZ has lots of cap space. No issue to take on Marleaus contract what so ever. 

 

Marleau might just retire after the trade. Then AZ wouldn't even have to pay his 1.25  mill salary. They get a extra late round pick for nothing. Why wouldn't they do that

 

I don't think Dubas needs JB to do any favours for hi. with Marleau. 

 

Maybe something else later but not with this. 

 

 

 

I don't think any team should be doing Toronto a favour. Getting Marleau is basically allowing Toronto to resign Marner. No team should do it unless something good is coming their way.

[The Lock]

Just now, NuckForReal!!! said:

Tell me a cheaper and easier way to do so

It's not really worth my time to sort out Toronto's dealings, but even a simple roster swap of a player on another team with a lower cap hit would be better even. There are a number of players in this league on the trade block or available to trade and not all of them are of a high cap hit. It could even be a team looking to reach the cap floor.

 

There is literally a plethora of options for Dubas that's cheaper.

[The Lock]

3 minutes ago, NuckForReal!!! said:

I don't think any team should be doing Toronto a favour. Getting Marleau is basically allowing Toronto to resign Marner. No team should do it unless something good is coming their way.

And this is just your personal bias, and you have every right to be biased like that, but in reality, Toronto is a team like any other and teams will treat that as such. GM's are unlikely to let such hatred towards teams get in the way of dealings. It's a business in the end and it has to be treated as such.

[NuckForReal!!!]

1 minute ago, The Lock said:

And this is just your personal bias, and you have every right to be biased like that, but in reality, Toronto is a team like any other and teams will treat that as such. GM's are unlikely to let such hatred towards teams get in the way of dealings. It's a business in the end and it has to be treated as such.

But how is letting Toronto sign Marner so easily good for other teams "business." I'm not saying teams should play hardball just because it is Toronto but Toronto is the team in this situation in this case.

[WHL rocks]

12 minutes ago, NuckForReal!!! said:

I don't think any team should be doing Toronto a favour. Getting Marleau is basically allowing Toronto to resign Marner. No team should do it unless something good is coming their way.

I understand your sentiment. 

 

However GMs have relationships around the league. They've been involved in hockey all their lives and are friends for decades.  

 

Shannahan is the real power holder in Toronto. Not Dubas. 

 

Shanny can make one call and have Marleau traded within an hour at even value. No doubt about it. 

 

Dubas has built relationships around the NHL as well and in this case he doesn't even need Shannys help.

 

This is a very minor issue. Not a big deal at all to trade Marleau.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 3, 2019 by WHL rocks

[NuckForReal!!!]

1 minute ago, WHL rocks said:

I understand your sentiment. 

 

However GMs have relationships around the league. They've been involved in hockey all their lives and are friends for decades.  

 

Shannahan is the real power holder in Toronto. Not Dubas. 

 

Shanny can make one call and have Marleau traded within an hour at even value. No doubt about it. 

 

 

 

 

We'll have to wait and see

[WHL rocks]

Just now, NuckForReal!!! said:

We'll have to wait and see

Yes we will. 

 

And I'll say this now. If JB can get a 2nd rounder or Kapanen or Dermott or anything remotely close to that I'll buy you 2 tickets to a Canucks game next season. Cheers. 

[The Lock]

1 minute ago, NuckForReal!!! said:

But how is letting Toronto sign Marner so easily good for other teams "business." I'm not saying teams should play hardball just because it is Toronto but Toronto is the team in this situation in this case.

Because there are a lot of other teams looking to sign their RFAs this off-season and there are a lot of big names on that list: Marner, Boeser, Aho, etc. Toronto's not going to be the only team in this situation.

 

Some teams will play hardball (I mean look at what San Jose did with Hoffmann for example) and the cap will have some impact on trades so don't get me wrong. I'm not meaning to say that won't happen at all. However, I haven't seen any indication Dubas is ready to be fleeced like Ottawa was under their pressure. Keep in mind this is the same guy that got Nylander to under a 7mil cap hit. While some hate how that deal unfolded, the cap hit's actually pretty good.

 

Let me ask you this: would you trade away Eriksson and our 2nd round pick if we had less cap space than we did? Put us in their shoes and ask the same questions.

[WHL rocks]

@The Lock

 

Exactly on point and great example about LE..

 

Puts things in perspective for Canucks fans. 

 

Loui has 3 years at 6 mill cap hit remaining. And he makes 9 mill total over those 3 years. 

 

Would we pay Gaudette or Virtanen or Juolevi or our 2nd etc. to move his contract ? Heck no....

 

Marleau has 1 year. 1.25 mill salary.  That's like almost minimum league salary.

 

Why the heck would anyone pay so much to move him. 

 

Late round pick and/or a 2nd tier prospect who may or not make the NHL 100 games played club is all it costs. 

 

We paid Tim Schaller 1.9 mill to sit in the press box all year last year and will again next year. 

 

Marleau at 1.25 mill is a problem? I don't think so. 

 

In COL imagine a Sedin went there last year for 1.25 mill. That's Marleau. A Sedin at end of career. 

[Hindustan Smyl]

9 hours ago, Fanuck said:

They'd need to offer more than simply a 2nd imo. 

 

Not just because of Marleau's contract,  but because we would be doing them an ENORMOUS solid essentially enabling them to keep their core together.   

 

This isn't just a cap-dump situation like has been done many times in the past - for TO it's about keeping a 22yo hometown franchise player in their organization for the better part of the next decade. 

 

Surely that's worth more than a throw-in 2nd if you ask me.

Agreed with this.

 

If we’re taking Marleau, we are taking their 1st as well.

 

Having said that, Marleau won’t be coming here.  Patrick Marleau’s wife dislikes living Canada according to the rumors.  Marleau ends up back in Cali or in Arizona I think.

[Wolfgang Durst]

7 minutes ago, Hindustan Smyl said:

Agreed with this.

 

If we’re taking Marleau, we are taking their 1st as well.

 

Having said that, Marleau won’t be coming here.  Patrick Marleau’s wife dislikes living Canada according to the rumors.  Marleau ends up back in Cali or in Arizona I think.

TOR do not have a 1st this year. They used their 1st round pick to acquire Jake Muzzin from the L.A. Kings.

[Hindustan Smyl]

2 minutes ago, Wolfgang Durst said:

TOR do not have a 1st this year. They used their 1st round pick to acquire Jake Muzzin from the L.A. Kings.

Ahhh.  I completely forgot about that.

 

In that case, perhaps them giving us Liljegren would be an option?

[Agoork]

LA was interested, but couldn't do a deal because of the cap hit.   Maybe we step in as a middle man.  Leafs trade Marleau to Vancouver, we retain 50% and then trade him to LA.  We have lots of low cost non essential players we can add in there if something needs to go back to Toronto (Schaller, Spooner, Gaunce, LaPlante, Boucher, or a late round pick for example).  Maybe include a Kapanen or Johnsson for Goldobin swap.  LA would also have to send us something back. Heck, LA is even talking about buying out Phaneuf, so we could even include him in the deal and gain another asset.   LA has 2 1st round picks... so that #22 pick looks enticing.  Would Marleau at 50% retained be enough for Phaneuf and pick #22 ?  Values may be off, but we have lots of pieces and the cap space to make something like this work.

 

[NuckForReal!!!]

9 hours ago, WHL rocks said:

Yes we will. 

 

And I'll say this now. If JB can get a 2nd rounder or Kapanen or Dermott or anything remotely close to that I'll buy you 2 tickets to a Canucks game next season. Cheers. 

I don't think it's the canucks inability to get a 2nd but rather aquilini not wanting to pay the money for a bad contract.

[cowboy644]

Marleau and Toronto 1st in 2020 for Vancouver 1st in 2021 top 5 protected.The Canucks by all accounts should be picking somewhere in the middle by then I would think.They say next years draft is supposed to be really good.If the Canucks struggle in the coming season and draft top 10 then they may be able to package their's and the Leafs first and move up.In 2021 the Canucks first should be middle or lower if the rebuild is done well.Now the Leafs can keep their entire team together.Also garnering a little good will with the Leafs brass  by helping them now could set up a good trade down the road.

Edited June 3, 2019 by cowboy644

[Alflives]

7 minutes ago, cowboy644 said:

Marleau and Toronto 1st in 2020 for Vancouver 1st in 2021 top 5 protected.The Canucks by all accounts should be picking somewhere in the middle by then I would think.They say next years draft is supposed to be really good.If the Canucks struggle in the coming season and draft top 10 then they may be able to package their's and the Leafs first and move up.In 2021 the Canucks first should be middle or lower if the rebuild is done well.Now the Leafs can keep their entire team together.Also garnering a little good will with the Leafs brass  by helping them now could set up a good trade down the road.

Don't we give up more here in the exchange of draft picks, and take on Marleau's contract?

[DrJockitch]

I would want to see what else happens in the offseason but don't think it is a bad deal.  

Marleau would be a useful player on the wing for us and a second round pic is decent value.  

It is just money and we have the cap space.  Only one year so won't affect signing any of the kids.

I would do this if Benning gets a jump start on adding other players to make us competitive.  

If he can't really rebuild the D or add some other high end assets (ie: Panarin) then I probably wouldn't do this deal as it is the sort of deal that makes you competitive for a worse draft pic next year but not really competitive for the Stanley cup.

[JM_]

10 hours ago, WHL rocks said:

 

Marleau has 1 year. 1.25 mill salary.  That's like almost minimum league salary.

 

Why the heck would anyone pay so much to move him. 

 

thats true, but Dubie is also under a lot of pressure to not let Marner get to the state of receiving offer sheets. 

 

Marleau is still serviceable and has a low salary for 1 year but given the RFA bind TO is in I do think this is a case where Jim could get that 2nd rounder this year and maybe the 2020 as well if other GMs are asking for the moon right now. Jim can slip in there and help out TO a lot. 

 

Maybe something like Our 2019 3rd for Marleau, their 2019 2nd and 2020 2nd could work for them. TO drops 53 to 71 this year which is better than losing the pick entirely. 

[groovy]

Wouldn`t Marelau have a NMC? Take him on for a year but TO needs to pay for it.