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(Discussion) canucks players in reverse eras


Krumpalicious

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So let’s look At this in 2 separate questions with 2 answers each. 

 

Which  top Canuck players in the current era of high speed, end to end action, better goalies, better fitness etc etc.. would Be hindered most from going back to the clutching and grabbing era. And who would actually benefit from it based on their style of plays. 

 

Also on the flip side. Which top Canuck players from the clutching and grabbing era, be hindered the most in a high speed more skill etc. As well as who would have most benefited from playing in the current era. 

 

My picks are:

New era going back,

hindered: Sedins

benefit: Kesler

 

Old era moving forward

hindered: linden 

benifit: bure

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1 hour ago, Krumpalicious said:

So let’s look At this in 2 separate questions with 2 answers each. 

 

Which  top Canuck players in the current era of high speed, end to end action, better goalies, better fitness etc etc.. would Be hindered most from going back to the clutching and grabbing era. And who would actually benefit from it based on their style of plays. 

 

Also on the flip side. Which top Canuck players from the clutching and grabbing era, be hindered the most in a high speed more skill etc. As well as who would have most benefited from playing in the current era. 

 

My picks are:

New era going back,

hindered: Sedins

benefit: Kesler

 

Old era moving forward

hindered: linden 

benifit: bure

The Sedins didn’t play much in the “ new era” which has only been around for two or three years (the need for speed).  Also skill and speed are not synonyms.   Speed is a skill, just like grabbing and holding became a requirement during the clutch and grab era, Ludwig and Hatchers golden era.    The death of the enforcer has more to do with the skill level going up than anything else, now fourth liners are expected to play 10-12 mins and not hurt their team.   The skill level of the third line and up is same as it ever was IMO.  

 

Linden wouldn’t be hindered, he’d also benefit.   As would most skilled guys not having to work through he rodeo era.  He was on the downhill when he came back and played a smaller roll in the dead puck era then he did before it.   The Sedins played in it and didn’t do well until the rules changed so yes they did better in this era.   Kessler is done so won’t use him.

 

Current player:  Benifit going back NONE.  They’d  hate...Horvat could survive of the guys under 25 ... but wouldn’t flourish either.

 

Previous players going forward :  Benefit ALL of them except the enforcers.  No redline check, no interference  check, no clutching and grabbing check.  Better equipment check.  No enforcer jobs check. 

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Gordie Howe, Mario Lemieux, Bobby Orr all would have thrived in any era. I agree with IBatch Linden would have been fine in any era. It would have been interesting to see what he'd have been like if he was a winger instead of being converted to centre. I think it's a testament to the player he was that he adapted to the role of playing centre. 

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2 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Gordie Howe, Mario Lemieux, Bobby Orr all would have thrived in any era. I agree with IBatch Linden would have been fine in any era. It would have been interesting to see what he'd have been like if he was a winger instead of being converted to centre. I think it's a testament to the player he was that he adapted to the role of playing centre. 

There is a small chance Linden would of had over 450 goals and 1000 points if he never changed position.  Before he was a lock for 30 plus goals ... it’s a testament to the type of player he was that he switched to center (OTTO) becuase the team needed him to, and that he could excel as a two-force for a long time after.  At some point the HHOF needs to reflect and consider what the dead puck era did to certain players, and reconsider them.  Zubov is a great example, a high scoring defenseman before ... still managed 50 points during... and as soon as it was gone scored 70 plus points as a 35 year old.  He was a huge reason Dallas won their cup and returned to the final the next year...Näslund has more first line selections than any player the Canucks ever had and managed it all during the lowest scoring the league has post and mostly pre expansion.   Imagine how easy it would be for him now? 

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mogilny, bure, the courtnalls maybe...

 

dang, there's so many guys that might have loved today's game.. 

 

Other way around..? I don't know.. actually think that might have been Gud's era to shine

 

edit:

can you imagine Dana Murzyn playing today? yikes.?. 

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Gotta wonder how Hansen would fair if he were just starting out and to a lesser degree, Raymond or Tambelini.  Ballard would probably do a lot better nowadays.  Kesler would be incredible if he were 20yrs old today.

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Bure would have been unstoppable in this era.  He's basically a McDavid/Ovechkin hybrid -- how scary is that?  I'd be willing to bet he'd consistently score 70+ a season without the clutching and grabbing he had to battle through.

 

 

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9 hours ago, Krumpalicious said:

So let’s look At this in 2 separate questions with 2 answers each. 

 

Which  top Canuck players in the current era of high speed, end to end action, better goalies, better fitness etc etc.. would Be hindered most from going back to the clutching and grabbing era. And who would actually benefit from it based on their style of plays. 

 

Also on the flip side. Which top Canuck players from the clutching and grabbing era, be hindered the most in a high speed more skill etc. As well as who would have most benefited from playing in the current era. 

 

My picks are:

New era going back,

hindered: Sedins

benefit: Kesler

 

Old era moving forward

hindered: linden 

benifit: bure

I think you're sadly mistaken with the Sedins. I think they would have benefited from clutch and grab. The Sedins were so good on the boards and being elusive in the dirty areas. They would have dominated with the passing plays they could make.

Also don't think Bure benefits in this new era of hockey. I think his speed is what gave him the edge back then. Barely anyone could skate like that back then, and now there are tons of speedsters. Jenner, Virtanen, McDavid, Larkin, Pettersson,etc...

Kesler would have been a force back then... Also this is assuming they keep their skills and IQ of their peak in the modern era.

NewEra

Hindered: Pettersson, One Scott Stevens away from retirement,
Benefit: Sedins. When they slowed down they lost a lot of space in the new era. That's why their offence fell off a cliff, really. Clutch and grab, they would have made the pass before the guy groping him knew what happened. This would be utter domination circa 2011.

Old Era

Hindered: Bure. Goalies aren't so easy to dangle out of their crease anymore and everyone else is a step quicker, not to mention cherry picking doesn't happen in todays game that often.
Benefit: It's hard to pick a guy from this era who would do better against better competition, but I would have to say Alexander Mogilny. He was just so good, I think he would translate well.

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18 hours ago, IBatch said:

The Sedins didn’t play much in the “ new era” which has only been around for two or three years (the need for speed).  Also skill and speed are not synonyms.   Speed is a skill, just like grabbing and holding became a requirement during the clutch and grab era, Ludwig and Hatchers golden era.    The death of the enforcer has more to do with the skill level going up than anything else, now fourth liners are expected to play 10-12 mins and not hurt their team.   The skill level of the third line and up is same as it ever was IMO.  

 

Linden wouldn’t be hindered, he’d also benefit.   As would most skilled guys not having to work through he rodeo era.  He was on the downhill when he came back and played a smaller roll in the dead puck era then he did before it.   The Sedins played in it and didn’t do well until the rules changed so yes they did better in this era.   Kessler is done so won’t use him.

 

Current player:  Benifit going back NONE.  They’d  hate...Horvat could survive of the guys under 25 ... but wouldn’t flourish either.

 

Previous players going forward :  Benefit ALL of them except the enforcers.  No redline check, no interference  check, no clutching and grabbing check.  Better equipment check.  No enforcer jobs check. 

Agreed for sure about Linden.  I think he was third one year in the All Star Game's fastest skater competition.  He was strong and able to still move around some with guys hanging onto him, but more freedom wasn't going to hurt a guy with his speed.

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It really is ridiculous to think about what Bure could have done these days.  

His speed was way too much to handle  even in the day when you could just grab and hold the guy. 

Now he would just burn everyone.  

The speed and skill of McDavid, but not a total bitch.  

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On 6/4/2019 at 5:21 PM, 5Fivehole0 said:

I think you're sadly mistaken with the Sedins. I think they would have benefited from clutch and grab. The Sedins were so good on the boards and being elusive in the dirty areas. They would have dominated with the passing plays they could make.

Also don't think Bure benefits in this new era of hockey. I think his speed is what gave him the edge back then. Barely anyone could skate like that back then, and now there are tons of speedsters. Jenner, Virtanen, McDavid, Larkin, Pettersson,etc...

Kesler would have been a force back then... Also this is assuming they keep their skills and IQ of their peak in the modern era.

NewEra

Hindered: Pettersson, One Scott Stevens away from retirement,
Benefit: Sedins. When they slowed down they lost a lot of space in the new era. That's why their offence fell off a cliff, really. Clutch and grab, they would have made the pass before the guy groping him knew what happened. This would be utter domination circa 2011.

Old Era

Hindered: Bure. Goalies aren't so easy to dangle out of their crease anymore and everyone else is a step quicker, not to mention cherry picking doesn't happen in todays game that often.
Benefit: It's hard to pick a guy from this era who would do better against better competition, but I would have to say Alexander Mogilny. He was just so good, I think he would translate well.

They played in that era and weren’t very good, and that’s why they were given their “sister” moniker.  They cycled the puck fine but struggled to do much else.  They were tougher then they were given credit for and started to use their sticks more to gain space, but were not actively pursuing contact which was the game back then.  

 

After the lock-out they had a big bump in offense which plateaued quickly and then two boffo seasons around 2010...I don’t think they ever would have managed that back then, only a few players ever broke 100 during that time... 

 

Edit:  no way Bure would have been hindered, he scored against some of the best goalies that ever played...and would have way more chances to score in the current game then during anytime of his career with no red line ... he’d light goalies up today just like he did in the dead part of the dead puck era.   SP difference between .905 and .915 means ten less goals every 1000....a tiny tiny difference same with .888 and .920 really.  This goalies are way better now idea is ridiculous, the butterfly evened the playing field as an average goalie can figure that out and make a lot more saves...before  you had 5’ 7” guys like Vernon doing accrobatics and making most of the saves, while mostly standing up, today you have 6’6” guys with bigger equipment filling most of the net dropping down sometimes as soon as a puck goes near a players stick ... because 9 out of 10 goals were scored along the ice...pretty easy to get to .900 then right?  And way less net to shoot at ... Bure would ventilated them and turn them inside out, just like he did over 400 times in just over 700 games..

 

Goalies are bigger now and sticks are better...those thing make a differences.  Are they better?  Not IMO, just better at playing the averages ... also by the mid-nineties Roy’s style was in and a better crop of goalies existed, Bure played against those guys.  Hasek still was the most dominant goalie during a six or seven year stretch that the league has ever had ... Belfour, Roy, and on and on there were some great goalies then too.   Binningtons stats are very comparable and he’s the front runner for the Smythe right now.   Edit : not comparable to Hasek, he was otherworldly with some of the best sp ever including compared to anything since...Also EPs penalty shot goal against Rinne was something I saw Bure do probably close to 200 times in his career..he’d go one way then either go back and put it five hole on the way back or go all the way and tuck it in before the goalie could get back .. and then slam into the boards at full speed...

 

edit:  as per the better competition...well I just don’t buy it.  Jagr played in the 90’s through the dead puck era and right up until a few years ago, and his second to last year scored almost 70 points...in his forties.   

The same guy that managed more during the dead puck era than anyone (although J Thornton had one great season too)...and was getting outscored by an aging Gretzky who also played a few years in the dead puck era and managed over 100 points just before retiring...the ONLY better competition is the fourth line.  Stars then would be stars today as would they inversely, it’s easily proven by comparing how stars in their 30’s compared to the stars in their 20’s and you can go back as far as you want doing that. 

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