[Proposal]Artemi Panarin has listed Vancouver and Toronto as “Canadian options” (and Toronto can’t afford him)

[Hindustan Smyl]

1 minute ago, logic said:

Sutter and godly in our top 6 = no playoffs 

You could easily put Virtanen or LE up there.

 

Also - right wing is the easiest position in the NHL to address, bar none.  Not only that, but in the Summer of 2020 for instance......you don’t think UFA RW’ers out there would be absolutely licking their chops at the idea of playing alongside Panarin and Pettersson?  We would be seen as a future cup contender by many players and said players might see themselves as a missing piece.  

 

-Pettersson and Panarin on the top line

-Horvat as a 2nd line C

-Hughes and [BoeserTrade] as your future NHL elite defensive pairing.

-Markstrom or Demko as your solid goalie of the future.

 

Trust me.  It would NOT take long for the Canucks to address their impotency on RW.  I would even go as far as saying that on October 1st 2020 (opening night), we’d very likely be icing a legit 2nd round+ caliber team (ie Signing Panarin and trading Boeser for a D in this off-season + addressing RW issues during the Summer of 2020).

 

[redhdlois]

18 minutes ago, Hindustan Smyl said:

My concern with EK is that his body is starting to break down.   I’m not so sure how effective he’ll be after a few years.  He’s already nearing 30.  Also - Given that Karlsson is a Norris Trophy winner, I think his asking price would be 11 million minimum.  I’m just not sure if he’s the type of guy that we should be looking at.

 

I’d rather have the next ‘alpha’ top pairing D for the next 10+ years!

I’ll agree with you there.....I am one of the few that aren’t onboard with getting EK.

[BCNate]

-Sign Panarin

-Sign Meyers

-Re-sign Edler

-Re-sign Shenn

 

Panarin-EP-Brock

Pearson-Bo-Baer

Leivo-Gaudette-Virtanen

Rouselle-Beagle-Motte

 

Edler-Tanev

Meyers-Stecher

Schenn-Hughes

 

Trade bait/Waiver wire: Sutter,Goldobin,Schaller,Spooner,Eriksson,Granlund, Hutton

 

[Kanukfanatic]

8 hours ago, Hindustan Smyl said:

Artemi Panarin has listed Vancouver and Toronto as “Canadian options” (and Toronto can’t afford him)

 

For those of you poor souls that have been reading my posts these past few months, you’ll know that I’ve never been aboard the Artemi Panarin train.    

 

Why?  Because - I’ve yet to see evidence of a team winning a cup when the core takes up an inappropriately high percentage of the cap.  Washington was the only team to have “kinda sorta” achieved this feat last year (even then, Ovie’s 9.5ish cap hit isn’t outrageously high in today’s NHL), but aside from that, all cup winning teams these past 10 years had relatively (relatively being the key word) cost controlled cap hits to their top players, whether it was Chicago, LA, Boston, Pittsburgh, or one of St.Louis/Boston this year.

 

Cost Controlled elite talent + depth is the key.

 

Having said that, I now do see one HUGE opportunity in signing Panarin.....an opportunity that I didn’t see before.

 

IF the Canucks can sign Artemi Panarin on July 1st, I would absolutely move Brock Boeser for a young proven defenseman....preferably one that plays the right side.  

 

I’m talking Miro Heiskanen, Charlie McAvoy, etc.  Those kind of guys.  (Although I can’t see Dallas moving Heiskanen).

 

NOW all of a sudden, the Canucks would have one of the future strongest and most balanced line-ups in all of hockey.  Furthermore, trading Boeser for someone with a year left on an ELC (McAvoy) would give the Canucks more future cap flexibility and would increase our window.

 

Panarin-Pettersson-Sutter (I’d use Sutter here since he can score goals when placed in offensive roles and also has a strong defensive sense.  As a winger, his non-existent playmaking ability also wouldn’t be an issue.  Just go to the net and the two superstars will find you).

Pearson-Horvat-Goldobin

Baertschi-Gaudette-Virtanen

Roussel-Beagle-Eriksson (put LE on a higher line if one of the above 3 RW’s falter.  Given LE’s success with EP at the World’s, maybe you can just put LE on the Pettersson/Panarin line to begin with.....and have Sutter on the 4th).

 

Edler-McAvoy

Hughes-Tanev

Hutton-Stecher

 

Markstrom

Demko

 

Bringing In a guy like McAvoy would also allow us to move on from Tanev (via trade or letting walk away) without having to worry about our RD being completely shackled in his absence.

 

From an organizational depth standpoint, prospects such as Lockwood and Jasek might be able to realistically step into the line-up sooner than later since there would be an extra vacancy on that RW side.

 

 

The Tl;dr version of this post:

 

If the Canucks sign Panarin, they should trade Boeser for a young proven RD on an ELC like Charlie McAvoy since we would now have an extremely balanced line-up with no major organizational weaknesses.

Boeser does not get you McAvoy. Not even close. Not to mention the small detail that teams do not trade players like McAvoy.

 

Edit: the bolded is the only part of your post that makes sense lol.

Edited June 7, 2019 by Kanukfanatic

[Hindustan Smyl]

1 minute ago, Kanukfanatic said:

Boeser does not get you McAvoy. Not even close. Not to mention the small detail that teams do not trade players like McAvoy.

Fair enough.  

 

What about Dumba from Minnesota?    Minnesota's wants Boeser while we need a young RD.   

[Kanukfanatic]

28 minutes ago, Hindustan Smyl said:

Fair enough.  

 

What about Dumba from Minnesota?    Minnesota's wants Boeser while we need a young RD.   

Go read their boards. Minnesota fans would like Boeser but not a single one say they would trade Dumba. Same old thing....teams don't trade young #1 D men unless there are issues with them (but then that usually means they are not #1 D men).

[Tinky-Winky]

1 hour ago, BCNate said:

 

 

Trade bait/Waiver wire: Sutter,Goldobin,Schaller,Spooner,Eriksson,Granlund, Hutton

 

None want them, and i bet JB couldn't even give them away for free either....only deal i see happening with any of those, is eriksson > lucic  ...and even that is sketchy

[BCNate]

28 minutes ago, Dave "The Hammer" Schultz said:

None want them, and i bet JB couldn't even give them away for free either....only deal i see happening with any of those, is eriksson > lucic  ...and even that is sketchy

Sutter has value for sure, especially if we retain.  Someone would likely take a flyer on Goldobin for a mid round pick.  Hutton absolutely has value. Schaller and Spooner to Utica.  Granlund we can just walk away from.  LE, who knows what to do with him.  Whatever it is, he likely isn't back.  Playing awful and bashing your coach usually don't go well together.

[higgyfan]

6 minutes ago, BCNate said:

Sutter has value for sure, especially if we retain.  Someone would likely take a flyer on Goldobin for a mid round pick.  Hutton absolutely has value. Schaller and Spooner to Utica.  Granlund we can just walk away from.  LE, who knows what to do with him.  Whatever it is, he likely isn't back.  Playing awful and bashing your coach usually don't go well together.

Goldy will probably flee to Russia before JB gets a chance to trade him.

 

If Sutter goes, it will mean Gaudette is running the 3rd line and he is just not ready for such a huge role.  It always falls back onto Bo's shoulders to tend to the defensive zone starts, which ultimately takes away from the 2nd line's offensive threat.

 

Schaller and Spooner can be sent down to Utica, but the AHL only allows so many pros on the team.  Granlund is better than those 2 guys as he is very versatile and an ideal depth player.

 

Unless Loui gets traded for another cap dump (which is an awful idea), he will likely remain with the team for the upcoming season.  His contract will be much easier to move after that.

[mpt]

5 hours ago, Hindustan Smyl said:

Yes, and the Penguins didn’t win a cup for another 7 years.   It was only after Chicago and LA gave raises to Kane, Toews, and Kopitar, combined with the cap continuing to increase, that Pittsburgh was able to re-emerge as the alpha.

If we sign big contracts and 7 years we win Stanley Cups like the Penguins, I’m good with that

[IBatch]

6 hours ago, Hindustan Smyl said:

I’m also intrigued at the idea of having Panarin-Pettersson-Boeser as a top line, but that could just as easily make us a poor man’s Toronto or even an Edmonton.

 

Having that top alpha defensive pairing is just so crucial in my opinion.  

It would be a risk no doubt ... EK would likely cost a bit more and there’s no guarantees that Hughes is going to do that and nothing in our system screams alpha dog either.   This was my issue with drafting Hughes in the first place over Bouchard, one guy is a man child that can play 30 plus minutes a game and is yet to miss any time (and despite his size still was top ten in pull-ups so you know he’s strong too), best passer in the draft and has great point shot, the other is a rover more suited to the current “trend” which soon might come to a grinding halt given who made the last two finals.  Yes he didn’t have a good WJs but he made mincemeat of his competition in the playoffs ... 

 

Edler is still going to be our best all-round defenseman for the foreseeable future and he’s about to sign his last contract..and fans have been beating on him forever (because he never took the next step, is injured all the time etc)...

 

That said Ive never seen a guy like Hughes in a Canucks uniform ever...and am excited to see what he can do...been watching hockey a long time so have some difficulty with his size ... only Housley is in the HHOF that had a similar build and even he was bigger.   How he will handle the NHL sized guys for a season is yet to be determined but the sample size so far is great.   

 

Personally I think our future somewhat lies on OJs shoulders.  If he can be the guy he was drafted to be, sign Panarin and be on our way.  He could be like Tanev 2.0 with more offense, think Vlasic who was a perennial top 50 player in the league ranked by THN for a decade or so...not just defenseman but ALL players , because that’s how important top two-way or defensive defenseman are.    If that’s the guy we have in OJ then we are set despite the weak right side.   If Tree comes back our bottom pairing is upgraded too, although part of me wants to see what he could do with Hughes as his wingman on the opposite side.  

 

Could we afford Panarin, Edler and Myers too?  He’d undoubtedly be our best option on the right side, not suited for a top line role on his own but is definitely top four material....

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, BCNate said:

Sutter has value for sure, especially if we retain.  Someone would likely take a flyer on Goldobin for a mid round pick.  Hutton absolutely has value. Schaller and Spooner to Utica.  Granlund we can just walk away from.  LE, who knows what to do with him.  Whatever it is, he likely isn't back.  Playing awful and bashing your coach usually don't go well together.

LE will be back as he’s untradeable at the moment....Hutton we could definitely find a place for, decent cap hit, decent defenseman and he’s entering his prime years.   Spooner was a cap dump we are stuck with him, and Boston owes us for Schaller (ha ha of course they don’t but I hope that’s it for their castaways )  agree he could be AHL bound.  

 

Sutter wont get traded unless he rebounds well after an awful season.  He has very little value even if we retain.  Nobody wants someone made of glass.

 

 

Of these guys Hutton is the only one that would definitely  get us a pick or something back.. Granlund maybe...Goldobin teams just might wait and see if he goes on waivers and then nab him if that’s what they really want. 

[IBatch]

8 hours ago, Hindustan Smyl said:

Yes, and the Penguins didn’t win a cup for another 7 years.   It was only after Chicago and LA gave raises to Kane, Toews, and Kopitar, combined with the cap continuing to increase, that Pittsburgh was able to re-emerge as the alpha.

Is that really why though?  They had the same team then or arguably better on paper then won least their first of two cups when Letang was out and Shultz took over for him (gulp the same guy who was defensively challenged to say the least).   Might have a lot more to do with Crosby’s concision woes then the percentage of overall cap he was using ...and somewhat to do with MAFs yo-yo very unflattering playoff stats during that time too.   It’s no surprise that after Crosby was back, his game matured and he was healthy again that they won back to back cups again.   It’s entirely possible that if he never did have his health issues that they would have won sooner (assuming MAF was .920-.930 MAF and not .889 MAF too).  

 

I get what your saying about CHI, Kane and Toews signing those monster deals and later Seabrook screwed them big time...but so did Hossa aging out and their own goaltending drama.   LA...well personally I think that’s all Quick anyways, the luckiest cup winners in recent memory (the 93 Habs come to mind) don’t re-call any 8th seed winning ever before or since them.  And they did it twice...now the games changed too much and they are too old to compete, if they re-tool properly maybe they can have another go before Doughty and Kopitar are too old but I seriously doubt it, they had a hard enough time as it was just MAKING the playoffs before ... wish they never won...

[WHL rocks]

15 hours ago, sonoman said:

You lost me at trade Boeser

Don't worry. No way Heiskanen or McAvoy can be had for Boeser.  He's just dreaming by posting that.   

 

 

[Hindustan Smyl]

3 minutes ago, WHL rocks said:

Don't worry. No way Heiskanen or McAvoy can be had for Boeser.  He's just dreaming by posting that.   

 

 

You’re probably right.

 

If we’re talking young RHD’s however, who do you think would be fair value for Boeser?     Surely, a young 1st line sniper like Boeser could land a very good and young RHD.....or am I incorrect here?

Edited June 8, 2019 by Hindustan Smyl

[sonoman]

19 minutes ago, WHL rocks said:

Don't worry. No way Heiskanen or McAvoy can be had for Boeser.  He's just dreaming by posting that.   

 

 

No worries.  His proposals are usually pretty entertaining anyway

Edited June 8, 2019 by sonoman

[WHL rocks]

2 minutes ago, Hindustan Smyl said:

You’re probably right.

 

If we’re talking young RHD’s however, who do you think would be fair value for Boeser?     Surely, a young 1st line sniper like Boeser could land a very good and young RHD.....or am I incorrect here?

 

A guy like Trouba. If he agrees to an extension. Jets need a C though. Not a winger. Tyson Barrie from COL. Ristolinen BUF Pullock NYI 

 

 

 

But we aren't in a position to trade players like Boeser. We're already in need of 2 more top 6 forwards. 

 

For the next couple of years you just try to sign a Panarin or EK (unlikely) and keep drafting and developing... 

I see JB going after the likes of Lee,  Eberle or Johansson and Gardiner, Myers, Edler.

 

Make trades using other players but not the top 4 young studs. But our other players don't have much value and some have negative value.

 

EP Boeser Horvat Hughes don't get traded. They stay and you continue to build with them

 

[Kobayashi Maru]

I feel if we keep drafting our depth and sign Panarin and Myers as a boost we are in really good shape.

[Hindustan Smyl]

Hey guys,

 

Thank you for the feedback.

 

As usual, I enjoyed the responses and different perspectives.   I’ll leave this thread with a few final thoughts:

 

1) I don’t think I would ultimately sign Panarin as that cap hit will be outrageous.  I think he’d be looking at 10.5 million.....and if you’re paying him 10.5 million, you’d likely be paying EP around that much in a few years as well.  Teams with an inappropriately high percentage of their cap to their top players don’t win cups (atleast as of this writing).

 

2)  I actually don’t like the idea of trading Boeser for the reasons that many people on here stated (young asset, 1st line sniper, etc.). The only way that I would have considered trading Boeser was if we got Panarin, and then moved Boeser for a young elite dman.  Based on the feedback I received however, some of the caliber defenseman that I’d want (McAvoy, Heiskanen, Makar, Dumba) wouldn’t be available, and the ones that would be available (Ristolainen, Pulock, etc.) aren’t good enough for Boeser in my opinion.

 

Another Boeser option that I considered, was Boeser + 10th to LA for Toffoli + 5th IF Byram was still available, but I’m not even really sure if I’d do that.

 

3) The need for a long term heir apparent to Chris Tanev.   One thing that did surprise me in this thread, was how little emphasis many posters placed on our D.    Teams without a top elite NHL pairing will NOT win cups.  Period.  While it looks like we have one half of that equation in Quinn Hughes, we’re still going to need someone on that right side that can replace Tanev one day.  Guys like Woo, Stecher, Schenn, etc, aren’t those guys to be that top #1 RD pairing.  The only guy in UFA that meets that bill, is Erik Karlsson.........but again, if you pay EK the amount of money that he’ll want, you’re basically putting yourselves in the same future cap mess that Toronto is facing right now........and decreasing your “window” as a result.   If EK gets paid at a premium, our other young core players that hit RFA status will want premium money as well.   I also believe that EK’s health is slowly starting to decline, and so he’s not really a guy that I would target.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 8, 2019 by Hindustan Smyl