Single use plastic ban coming in 2021

[bishopshodan]

44 minutes ago, Kragar said:

Depends on what you mean by "smart".  It could easily work politically, satisfying his base.  And it can be smart in practice, depending on its actual implementation.  If Scheer's comment is accurate, the plan is not clear yet, so for now it sounds like political news only.

 

Plastic bans in the US and in some other countries have struggled to meet respectable achievements, as other plastic consumption has increased as a result (people who were using "single use" grocery bags for light trash collection move to heavier "legal" trash bags, and "single-use" paper consumption rises.

 

If it makes sense, great, because we do have a consumption problem that needs addressing.  I just hope you (Canada) can learn from others' mistakes and implement it more successfully.

Yeah, I meant a smart political move.

 

And I think it is absolutely something the planet needs to address, so it is a timely topic.

 

As you mention though we will see what the plan is first.

[Lancaster]

2 hours ago, inane said:

and?

 

This whole 'other people do it so why don't we' line of thinking is so lazy. Race to the bottom.

 

It's all about the value of the input and what's the overall output.  The amount of time/energy invested to ban plastic straws and to replace them with cardboard straws, which may not be environmentally friendly, could better be directed towards actual environmental abusers.

North America can stop using plastic straws overnight and it wouldn't make any difference globally.  

 

Not saying do nothing, but getting China and the next 9 countries to cut back 1% is way more than what could be done by banning straws or shopping bags or whatever feel good fad faux eco-activism going forward for Canada and the US.  

 

You want people to be less irritated, give people options and choices.  Let the people choose if they want to keep using plastic straws or use some alternatives, not some holier-than-thou directive.  

[kingofsurrey]

My family is pretty Green now.

 

We are thinking to make the switch to reusable toilet paper.....

 

[EdgarM]

7 minutes ago, Lancaster said:

It's all about the value of the input and what's the overall output.  The amount of time/energy invested to ban plastic straws and to replace them with cardboard straws, which may not be environmentally friendly, could better be directed towards actual environmental abusers.

North America can stop using plastic straws overnight and it wouldn't make any difference globally.  

 

Not saying do nothing, but getting China and the next 9 countries to cut back 1% is way more than what could be done by banning straws or shopping bags or whatever feel good fad faux eco-activism going forward for Canada and the US.  

 

You want people to be less irritated, give people options and choices.  Let the people choose if they want to keep using plastic straws or use some alternatives, not some holier-than-thou directive.  

The only way to beat a problem such as this is to talk the language that they know and love...…...Money. Take away the demand and then maybe places like China look for other non-plastic products to sell. Options? It is much too late for the luxury of options for this earth. If you want to give options then it will be a paper straw or nothing. People have to stop looking at things as "black and white" and see what can be done when we think outside the box.

[Alflives]

15 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

This, just a few posts after saying Lefties "are collecting hand outs".....

Lefty could be anyone.  Whereas the insult tossed so graciously my way was specific to one person.  

 

[Lancaster]

2 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

The only way to beat a problem such as this is to talk the language that they know and love...…...Money. Take away the demand and then maybe places like China look for other non-plastic products to sell. Options? It is much too late for the luxury of options for this earth. If you want to give options then it will be a paper straw or nothing. People have to stop looking at things as "black and white" and see what can be done when we think outside the box.

So I take it that the West should be putting up tariffs against China until they clean up their mess?

[higgyfan]

1 hour ago, Aladeen said:

95% of all plastics in the oceans comes from just 10 Rivers:

• Yangtze River, Yellow Sea, Asia
• Indus River, Arabian Sea, Asia
• Yellow River (Huang He), Yellow Sea, Asia
• Hai River, Yellow Sea, Asia
• Nile, Mediterranean Sea, Africa
• Meghna/Bramaputra/Ganges, Bay of Bengal, Asia
• Pearl River (Zhujiang), South China Sea, Asia
• Amur River (Heilong Jiang), Sea of Okhotsk, Asia
• Niger River, Gulf of Guinea, Africa
• Mekong River, South China Sea, Asia

 

I am all for banning plastics but the reality is that it won't do much good unless we get these other countries educated and on board

 

Indonesia:

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Guatemala:

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India:

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Amazon: 

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Haiti:

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Philippines:

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Glad you added Amazon.  Their packaging should be dealt with first!

 

As you have stated, education creates change and most people around the world have access to some form of media. It can be done.  I remember when people living around coastal BC used to take their garbage out to sea and dump it in.  Most everyone did it and every kind of garbage imaginable was dumped.  Haven't seen anything like that in an awful long time.  People are just more aware now. Initially people resisted the notion of recycling, but now it is pretty common and it has forced people to see the massive amount of garbage we produce every week.

 

Western countries need to clean up their act and provide education, knowledge and support to the countries on your list.  Whatever is happening in Asia (or anywhere else), is effecting everyone.  It will be tragically sad, if we just shrug our shoulders and tune it out because we believe that nothing can be done.

 

 

[EdgarM]

2 minutes ago, Lancaster said:

So I take it that the West should be putting up tariffs against China until they clean up their mess?

No but a ban on single use plastic will definitely put a damper on their exports to Canada. Maybe it becomes a fad and others follow suit. Pretty soon they see profits drop significantly and they look for alternatives. Not an overnight answer to the problem but it maybe a start.

[RUPERTKBD]

11 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Lefty could be anyone.  Whereas the insult tossed so graciously my way was specific to one person.  

 

So it's not so much insults that bother you, it's just ones directed at a specific person?

 

I guess that makes it okay to say that all posters with aliens as their avatars are idiots?

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

Glad you added Amazon.  Their packaging should be dealt with first!

 

As you have stated, education creates change and most people around the world have access to some form of media. It can be done.  I remember when people living around coastal BC used to take their garbage out to sea and dump it in.  Most everyone did it and every kind of garbage imaginable was dumped.  Haven't seen anything like that in an awful long time.  People are just more aware now. Initially people resisted the notion of recycling, but now it is pretty common and it has forced people to see the massive amount of garbage we produce every week.

 

Western countries need to clean up their act and provide education, knowledge and support to the countries on your list.  Whatever is happening in Asia (or anywhere else), is effecting everyone.  It will be tragically sad, if we just shrug our shoulders and tune it out because we believe that nothing can be done.

 

 

What can we do?  There are literally billions of people just barely surviving. They are worried about today, not tomorrow.  We live very comfortable lives, so we can afford time to discuss these things.  People in those developing countries can't afford to live any other way.  The cost to our economy to help them would be far beyond our means.  It's not just about helping with plastics; it's about sacrificing our way of life to help those who have far less.  Are we really willing to make that happen?   

[Lancaster]

4 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

No but a ban on single use plastic will definitely put a damper on their exports to Canada. Maybe it becomes a fad and others follow suit. Pretty soon they see profits drop significantly and they look for alternatives. Not an overnight answer to the problem but it maybe a start.

Straws are just a tiny fraction of a decimal point in terms of exports, if even.  Canadians aren't building homes with plastic straws.  

If environmental activists really want concrete action, they should be hitting at Chinese heavy industries.  One unregulated mine in China can cause more environmental damage than all the plastic straws in Canada.  

 

Not complaining about whether someone should be using a plastic straw for their frap.  

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

So it's not so much insults that bother you, it's just ones directed at a specific person?

 

I guess that makes it okay to say that all posters with aliens as their avatars are idiots?

Nope, I accept that 100%. 

As for the plastics idea IMO it's something we do to make ourselves feel like we are making a difference.  When in reality we are not.  This is not about Canadians making the world better, because what we do here (regarding plastics) makes no difference to the world.  The developing countries are billions of people.  We can pat ourselves on the backs and say we are doing wonderful things to save the planet, but it's basically burying our heads in the sand to the reality that we cannot make change of any real significance. 

Whether the idea is left or right makes no difference.   

[RUPERTKBD]

3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Nope, I accept that 100%. 

As for the plastics idea IMO it's something we do to make ourselves feel like we are making a difference.  When in reality we are not.  This is not about Canadians making the world better, because what we do here (regarding plastics) makes no difference to the world.  The developing countries are billions of people.  We can pat ourselves on the backs and say we are doing wonderful things to save the planet, but it's basically burying our heads in the sand to the reality that we cannot make change of any real significance. 

Whether the idea is left or right makes no difference.   

I disagree. We may not be making much difference in the world, but we can certainly make a difference in our little corner of it.

 

Unlike you and a few others here, I see that as a worthwhile endeavour....

[ChuckNORRIS4Cup]

Whatever, as long as the businesses that are selling it with their meals supply it to me when I buy their product, no complaint, but if this ends up some how putting the responsibility on the customer to bring his own plates, straws, cups, containers for take out or left overs, then I'll have a real reason to be upset, kind of like how the grocery stores and charging for bags now.

 

Actually now thinking about it more, this will just raise the price of all meals at restaurants now probably, they'll have to find alternatives that probably cost more to make, to give to their customers, so they'll just raise the price on all the things that use it, great.

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

I disagree. We may not be making much difference in the world, but we can certainly make a difference in our little corner of it.

 

Unlike you and a few others here, I see that as a worthwhile endeavour....

Cleaning up our own backyard is a good thing.  My point is that if we are thinking our efforts here are going to greatly influence those billions of the developing world, then we are mistaken.  

[RUPERTKBD]

Just now, Alflives said:

Cleaning up our own backyard is a good thing.  My point is that if we are thinking our efforts here are going to greatly influence those billions of the developing world, then we are mistaken.  

I dunno....it's never a bad idea to set a good example....

 

As I see it, walking around saying "it's useless" is just an excuse for being too lazy to do ones own part.

[inane]

1 hour ago, Lancaster said:

It's all about the value of the input and what's the overall output.  The amount of time/energy invested to ban plastic straws and to replace them with cardboard straws, which may not be environmentally friendly, could better be directed towards actual environmental abusers.

North America can stop using plastic straws overnight and it wouldn't make any difference globally.  

 

Not saying do nothing, but getting China and the next 9 countries to cut back 1% is way more than what could be done by banning straws or shopping bags or whatever feel good fad faux eco-activism going forward for Canada and the US.  

 

You want people to be less irritated, give people options and choices.  Let the people choose if they want to keep using plastic straws or use some alternatives, not some holier-than-thou directive.  

The problem with just leaving it to choice is that we don't actually cost things appropriately. Those 100 plastic straws wrapped in plastic wrap shipped from China sure don't actually cost 99 cents like you buy it for at your local dollar store. If we actually price things according to their true cost, then sure, leave it up to the people to choose. But we don't do that. 

[inane]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Again thank you for the insult.  

Mother Teresa once begging for money for her children stricken with leprosy came to a very wealthy man.  She asked for money and he spit in her hand.  Mother Teresa said "thank, that's for me.  Now may I have money for the children?"

We cannot change the world.  Accept the truth.  Do what makes you feel like you're doing something positive.  But you're burying your head in the sand if you think it's making a difference.  

If we can't change the world, why is it constantly changing? You just think these decisions by governments and industry just fall out of the sky?

[JM_]

3 hours ago, Ryan Strome said:

How about Canadas debt, defecit and wage growth? If only things were as simple as u think.

well, there hasn't been a conservative PM yet that didn't raise our debt, since we started using debt as standard policy in the 1950s. 

 

Real wage growth is better today than when Trudeau took over from Harper (see: https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/wage-growth)

 

I agree on the deficit, that doesn't thrill me at all, but Trudeau and Scheer are on pretty much the same timetable to balance it. 

 

There are lots of reason not to like Trudeau, but the economy isn't one of them, particularly when you put it in context. 

Edited June 10, 2019 by Jimmy McGill

[EdgarM]

57 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Cleaning up our own backyard is a good thing.  My point is that if we are thinking our efforts here are going to greatly influence those billions of the developing world, then we are mistaken.  

I remember seeing a program where poor kids from a third world country digging through a garbage dump to look for recyclables they can sell for food. Why is he not in a field somewhere growing his own food? Why? because their is a commodity that is dictated by the rest of the world, INCLUDING US! Western civilization influences much of the world and we have to be partly responsible for its problems and therefore we should also be part of the solution.