Single use plastic ban coming in 2021

[-DLC-]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

I think the "head in the sand" concept is the best way to deal with world pollution.  Do the best you can on an individual level, and think (in your heart) that what you are doing makes a difference.  Reality is what we do here in Canada, will not make any impact at all around the world.  So, put your head in the sand, and enjoy the bliss of ignorance.  

(not you specifically King.  You is just anyone)

That's a terrible attitude though.

 

"No point".   But how about a ripple effect?  How about being leaders and setting a standard?

 

Even IF no one else cares or joins in, at least we aren't part of the problem.  

[Bure_Pavel]

I'm afraid unless something is done with countries such as China and India, that have over 1 billion populations and rapidly growing economies these changes will have little to no effect directly on the global environment.    

 

I believe the solution will come down to heavy investment into new green technologies to reverse effects of pollution. 

Edited June 10, 2019 by Bure_Pavel

[EdgarM]

14 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

That's a terrible attitude though.

 

"No point".   But how about a ripple effect?  How about being leaders and setting a standard?

 

Even IF no one else cares or joins in, at least we aren't part of the problem.  

The world is made up of different people Deb. Some will help out a stranger getting assaulted while others will just walk on by and just stare at the incident thinking its not THEIR problem. Sad but true.

[inane]

2 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

I'm afraid unless something is done with countries such as China and India, that have over 1 billion populations and rapidly growing economies these changes will have little to no effect directly on the global environment.     

Funny though cause places like China and India are way ahead of us in some ways and we just have excuses about those lol 

[canuckistani]

This is such a cosmetic show and doesn't address the point at all. 

70% of the plastic pollution in the oceans are from cast-off fishing lines. That happens in coastal or international waters. Yes, lets start with straws and pretend its gonna do anything meaningful. 

[Bure_Pavel]

3 minutes ago, inane said:

Funny though cause places like China and India are way ahead of us in some ways and we just have excuses about those lol 

Take a look at a global air quality index and its pretty easy to see where the most damage is being done. 

 

https://waqi.info/

[canuckistani]

Just now, Bure_Pavel said:

Take a look at a global air quality index and its pretty easy to see where the most damage is being done. 

 

https://waqi.info/

damage to what ? the eco-system or to the lungs of humans breathing the air ? Most of the smog does nothing towards world climate, all it does, is mess up the lungs of the animals that breathe that air. 

[inane]

1 minute ago, canuckistani said:

This is such a cosmetic show and doesn't address the point at all. 

70% of the plastic pollution in the oceans are from cast-off fishing lines. That happens in coastal or international waters. Yes, lets start with straws and pretend its gonna do anything meaningful. 

It's crazy how anyone can have this attitude. How do you think any change happens? 

[falcon45ca]

Single use plastic ban?

 

So, what...no more condoms?

[inane]

2 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

Take a look at a global air quality index and its pretty easy to see where the most damage is being done. 

 

https://waqi.info/

No idea how this relates to my point

[canuckistani]

Just now, inane said:

It's crazy how anyone can have this attitude. How do you think any change happens? 

change happens by following scientific procedures to isolate the prime governing factors and addressing them. 

you want change ? Okay. Give the fishermen free government sponsored fishing nets when they bring in their old nets for safe disposal and fine then 10,000 dollars a boat if they purchase a new net without registering return of the old nets. Done. 70% of plastic pollution in the oceans = addressed. With this sort of incentive, it doesn't even have to be an international agreement, most commercial fishers would just come to us for their free nets. And its heck of a lot cheaper than replacing plastic straws and bags with BS bio-degradable stuff that will put even more pressure on the world's ecosystems for greater agricultural land usage, at the expense of habitat ( where the HECK are all the extra hemp lined whatever is gonna come from ? from being grown in soil...where is that extra soil gonna come from ? by cutting down forests...)

[inane]

4 minutes ago, canuckistani said:

change happens by following scientific procedures to isolate the prime governing factors and addressing them. 

you want change ? Okay. Give the fishermen free government sponsored fishing nets when they bring in their old nets for safe disposal and fine then 10,000 dollars a boat if they purchase a new net without registering return of the old nets. Done. 70% of plastic pollution in the oceans = addressed. With this sort of incentive, it doesn't even have to be an international agreement, most commercial fishers would just come to us for their free nets. And its heck of a lot cheaper than replacing plastic straws and bags with BS bio-degradable stuff that will put even more pressure on the world's ecosystems for greater agricultural land usage, at the expense of habitat ( where the HECK are all the extra hemp lined whatever is gonna come from ? from being grown in soil...where is that extra soil gonna come from ? by cutting down forests...)

Lol

[falcon45ca]

Just now, canuckistani said:

This is such a cosmetic show and doesn't address the point at all. 

70% of the plastic pollution in the oceans are from cast-off fishing lines. That happens in coastal or international waters. Yes, lets start with straws and pretend its gonna do anything meaningful. 

72.3884763% actually.

 

 

[-DLC-]

You don't dismiss actions that can be taken because there are bigger fish (nets) to fry.   You tackle what you can.

 

I agree (re fishing nets) and the focus on that end of things is vitally important - but plastic is a huge issue.  I know because I realize how much I bring home and have to deal with on a daily basis.  I have a rubbermaid tub in my kitchen for recycling it but it's usually overflowing!

 

It's time to reprogram how we think - because, currently, not much thought is given to how things are packaged or things we use once then discard.  

 

KISS is a great concept to revert back to.

 

I used to work in logistics and the volume of plastic cutlery going out to some fast food restaurants was unbelievable.  

 

Small steps lead to big ones.  To not want to get involved or care unless giant leaps and bounds can be made is lazy.  Start (somewhere) and do what you can.

 

The fishing industry is simply biting that hand that feeds it by polluting the oceans and killing off the very fish that they are after - let them shoot themselves in the foot and see how long it takes for them to adjust if their livelihood is threatened.  Talk about stupid.

[-DLC-]

17 minutes ago, falcon45ca said:

Single use plastic ban?

 

So, what...no more condoms?

The three r's are now turning into four ... we're adding "reproduce".

[Wilbur]

 

19 minutes ago, falcon45ca said:

Single use plastic ban?

 

So, what...no more condoms?

 

1 minute ago, debluvscanucks said:

The three r's are now turning into four ... we're adding "reproduce".

The Catholic Church is behind the ban!  Illuminati confirmed!! 

[Ghostsof1915]

5 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

The three r's are now turning into four ... we're adding "reproduce".

 

[canuckistani]

11 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

You don't dismiss actions that can be taken because there are bigger fish (nets) to fry.   You tackle what you can.

This is what those who want cosmetic 'feel-good'-ism changes, say. Tackling the problem is the goal. Not to advertise how we are tackling the problem. 

11 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

I agree (re fishing nets) and the focus on that end of things is vitally important - but plastic is a huge issue.

It is a FAR tinier issue than fishing nets and far harder to control than fishing nets are. 

11 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

  I know because I realize how much I bring home and have to deal with on a daily basis.  I have a rubbermaid tub in my kitchen for recycling it but it's usually overflowing!

 

It's time to reprogram how we think - because, currently, not much thought is given to how things are packaged or things we use once then discard.  

So what is the solution ? Saying we need change, is meaningless unless an actual change is proposed and we can compare whether the change is better or worse. 

11 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

 

The fishing industry is simply biting that hand that feeds it by polluting the oceans and killing off the very fish that they are after - let them shoot themselves in the foot and see how long it takes for them to adjust if their livelihood is threatened.  Talk about stupid.

They won't. They will just repeat the cycle of Grand Banks fishing collapse, North Sea fishing collapse, South China sea fishing collapse, etc etc. 

[DrJockitch]

Waste, mass migration, global warming, pollution of the air land and water.  All these will improve by first addressing the root cause, the locusts that are the human race.

Global population is getting past the tipping point and needs to be controlled.  Easy to do, just let women be in charge of their reproduction, has worked in every country it has even been partially implemented.  Cheap and all you need to do.

The rest of the problems become much easier to deal with and work on.

This is not a big ask to get rid of single use plastic and styrofoam.  Then again fazing out cold fire power plants wouldn't be hard or expensive to do either.  Unfortunately in the modern era of government, even the small things seem radical.

Edited June 11, 2019 by DrJockitch

[canuckistani]

1 hour ago, DrJockitch said:

Waste, mass migration, global warming, pollution of the air land and water.  All these will improve by first addressing the root cause, the locusts that are the human race.

Global population is getting past the tipping point and needs to be controlled.  Easy to do, just let women be in charge of their reproduction, has worked in every country it has even been partially implemented.  Cheap and all you need to do.

The rest of the problems become much easier to deal with and work on.

This is not a big ask to get rid of single use plastic and styrofoam.  Then again fazing out cold fire power plants wouldn't be hard or expensive to do either.  Unfortunately in the modern era of government, even the small things seem radical.

1. Population isn't the problem, culture is the problem. The problem isn't there are too many people, problem is the western culture of consumerism affecting everything and everyone it touches. Re-initiation of the proven & age-old human model of deriving meaning out of family, community and hard work ( where time off is a luxury, not the dominant part of the life) is a much better bet than reduction of population. 

 

This is why large populations outside of western cultural sphere can have large populations and not go kaput - their culture is not driven by filling their lives with all the disposable entertainment that western people use in such staggering quantity, because they do not have a strong interpersonal community. 

And this is why reduction of population isn't gonna work. In today's modern world, the 'dream' is to travel the world, take a zillion pictures + buy a house + car + recreation vehicle + recreation property + send children to expensive universities. yes, it is the 'dream'. Many of us don't accomplish this dream, but trust me, almost everyone has had this 'dream' for themselves or their children, especially the gainfully employed ones. And with this model, the world cannot sustain even 1/10th the population it has. 

 

2. Giving women control of their bodies does not reduce child-bearing rates, that is a western thing, a product of western culture, not a product of non-western cultures. It has worked in the western countries and some westernized countries, due to a combination of consumerist culture + break-up of the conglomerate family unit. This is why in countries where women have reproductive rights under their own control ( eg: China or India) ,as well  in socities where the congolmerate family unit works, such as the Inuits ( who FYI, have the same reproductive rights as you or I) , the population shows no sign of abatement. Whereas in societies where the family unit is breaking down + presence of consumerism culture is huge , the birth rates are nose-diving ( western world minus immigration + Korea + Japan, etc). 

 

 

What we need, is a culture-shift away from being entertained by paying for stuff - either objects to buy or shows to see, by entertaining ourselves with our close friends and family. 

Once when i went to Ethiopia in my travels, i encountered the Ethiopian coffee ceremony. Its pretty much sunday afternoon, a family invites over all their neighbors for coffee, they lounge, drink coffee, eat snacks, few play card games while few chit-chat, etc. We need more of that in our lives, not weird solutions that run against human nature.