CBH1926 Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, kurtis said: China sucks! No wonder so many of them are leaving for greener pastures it other countries. One day it will fall apart.. China has been around for thousands of years, I am pretty sure it won’t fall apart for a very long time. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaimito Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 On 6/11/2019 at 12:00 AM, Ryan Strome said: They nearly didn't surrender after the 2nd one the emperor cast the deciding vote. The Americans killed more people in carpet bombing raids than Hiroshima. Off topic, but the emperor sacrificed those two cities so he or his followers can negotiate a way to let him live. In spirit lf bushido, he was more of a coward than Hitler. As for Tokyo fire bombs, yes that killed more people than the a bombs, but it took months. Back to HK. They never had democracy under UK rule. So what makes then think they will get it under Chinese rule? I visited Shanghai last yr, first time in China. I was surprised how peaceful the place is despite the huge population density. You feel safe, as there are cops every block but they are not armed to the teeth like some cops are in NYC where I live. Bascially, if you are not political, it is acutally a fun place to live. I can imagine working there for a few yrs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancaster Posted June 16, 2019 Author Share Posted June 16, 2019 4 hours ago, kingofsurrey said: Whats the big issue with extradition to the mainland... .. Isn't there cases where the mainland gov has just cruised over to hong kong and scooped up guys they wanted .... put them on a boat across back to the mainland.... Has this happened recently... ? . Hardly seems like it would change much... The HK government using the pretext of sending someone to Taiwan to push this new law. The Taiwanese government has already rejected the new proposed regulations and says it will not recognize it. They have also made 3 separate attempts to negotiate for the suspect in question since.... no reply from HK. This is all China slowly clamping down on HK. As for China kidnapping HK citizens, they've done it a few times. Even one or two dual citizens too. China doesn't recognize dual citizenship. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 2 hours ago, Jaimito said: I visited Shanghai last yr, first time in China. I was surprised how peaceful the place is despite the huge population density. You feel safe, as there are cops every block but they are not armed to the teeth like some cops are in NYC where I live. Bascially, if you are not political, it is acutally a fun place to live. I can imagine working there for a few yrs. I’ve lived and worked in China for the past decade. Traveled all around the country, as well as SE Asia and Oceania; it’s one of the safer countries I’ve been to. I have no qualms of walking late at night. If anything, as a foreigner, we are treated better in the country than most locals. As long as you don’t discuss anything “taboo” online or too loudly with the “wrong” people, it’s great. Other than traffic-related problems and air pollution (which are both common in most of SE Asia), it’s been a great place to live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckistani Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 On 6/14/2019 at 9:57 PM, CBH1926 said: Every military source that I have found, predicted that Japan invasion would kill 5-15 million people. Japan has mobilized millions of civilians, including woman and children into home defense forces. They were armed with knives, clubs, swords, bamboo sticks, Molotov cocktails etc. Americans and Brits could relate to Germans, that was not the case with the Japanese. They were considered sub human, and would have been exterminated by the U.S and U.K. Innocent people should never die in a war or be targeted, unfortunately in every war they are the ones that suffer the most. You did not answer my question. Try to answer the question that is asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBH1926 Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 (edited) 13 hours ago, canuckistani said: You did not answer my question. Try to answer the question that is asked. Bombing stopped the war and reduced number of deaths, are you in favor of more civilian casualties? Edited June 17, 2019 by CBH1926 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 23 minutes ago, CBH1926 said: Bombing stopped the war and reduced number of deaths, are you in favor of more civilian casualties? Are you in favour of War Crimes ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBH1926 Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 7 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said: Are you in favour of War Crimes ? No, but I am in favor of less deaths, what about you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 Just now, CBH1926 said: No, but I am in favor of less deaths, what about you? I do NOT support War Crimes. I like to keep it simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBH1926 Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 Just now, kingofsurrey said: I do NOT support War Crimes. I like to keep it simple. So what would have been your solution in 1945? How would you get Japan to surrender? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 1 minute ago, CBH1926 said: So what would have been your solution in 1945? How would you get Japan to surrender? Japan was pretty much ready to surrender already... By the way... Killing non-combatants might or will shorten a war is not a legal defense to the war crime https://www.fff.org/2016/05/12/arent-hiroshima-nagasaki-war-crimes/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBH1926 Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 15 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said: Japan was pretty much ready to surrender already... By the way... Killing non-combatants might or will shorten a war is not a legal defense to the war crime https://www.fff.org/2016/05/12/arent-hiroshima-nagasaki-war-crimes/ Besides having an army of 6.93 million, they started to organize millions more into home guard. Plus having prepared 10 000 shinyo, kaiten, kairy etc. for suicide missions as well as 6000 plus aircrafts to be used as kamikaze. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckistani Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 4 hours ago, CBH1926 said: Bombing stopped the war and reduced number of deaths, are you in favor of more civilian casualties? Can you simply answer the question asked ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gttxc Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 (edited) 16 hours ago, Ryan Strome said: Edited June 17, 2019 by gttxc Wrong thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 9 hours ago, CBH1926 said: Besides having an army of 6.93 million, they started to organize millions more into home guard. Plus having prepared 10 000 shinyo, kaiten, kairy etc. for suicide missions as well as 6000 plus aircrafts to be used as kamikaze. https://www.stripes.com/news/special-reports/world-war-ii-the-final-chapter/wwii-victory-in-japan/would-japan-have-surrendered-without-the-atomic-bombings-1.360300 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuckin_futz Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 (edited) Hong Kong police evict protesters who stormed parliament Police firing tear gas have evicted protesters who stormed and ransacked Hong Kong's parliament. Activists had occupied the Legislative Council (LegCo) building for hours after breaking away from a protest on the anniversary of Hong Kong's transfer of sovereignty to China from Britain. After midnight (16:00 GMT), hundreds of police secured the building following a warning to protesters to clear it. It follows weeks of unrest in the city over a controversial extradition law. Hundreds of thousands took part in the earlier peaceful protest - the latest rally against a proposed law that critics fear could be used to extradite political dissidents to mainland China. The protesters have also been demanding an independent inquiry into alleged police brutality during an earlier protest on 12 June. Hong Kong's embattled political leader Carrie Lam held a press conference at 04:00 local time (20:00 GMT) in which she condemned the "extreme use of violence" of those who broke into the legislature. How did the day unfold? Peaceful demonstrations had been planned for Monday, the 22nd anniversary of the handover of sovereignty. A large-scale march, involving hundreds of thousands of people, took place in the city, and passed off in a largely peaceful manner. Separately, officials from the government raised glasses of champagne at a formal ceremony celebrating the handover. But at about lunchtime, dozens of demonstrators broke off and made their way to LegCo. They effectively besieged the building, as a large crowd of several hundred watched from a distance, before eventually smashing their way through the glass facade. Protesters break the windows of LegCo after storming the building. Pro-democracy legislators at the scene had attempted to dissuade them from breaking into LegCo, warning them they could face serious criminal charges for doing so. One of the lawmakers, 66-year-old Leung Yiu-chung, said their pleas were ignored, with many protesters telling him they were prepared to face the consequences. Police warned the crowd they would use force and make arrests, but fell back to an interior gate before vacating the building, rather than engage the crowd. Hundreds more flowed in once the police left. The defaced emblem of Hong Kong in the central chamber - alongside the colonial-era flag Inside, they defaced the emblem of Hong Kong in the central chamber, raised the old British colonial flag, spray-painted messages across the walls, and shattered furniture. Then at about midnight outside the building, protesters clad in plastic helmets and brandishing umbrellas retreated from a baton charge by riot police, who quickly overcame their makeshift barriers. Inside, diehard protesters were pulled forcibly outside by their fellow occupants in an attempt to completely clear the building. Democratic lawmakers Ted Hui and Roy Kwong stood in front of police asking them to allow demonstrators time to leave the area, the South China Morning Post reported. Within an hour, the streets around the building were clear of everyone except the media and police. Officers then began searching the rooms of the LegCo building for any possible stragglers. No arrests have yet been reported. Why didn't protesters stay? One pro-democracy legislator told the BBC that young protesters initially said they would stay all night. "They're saying that they would beat the police by sheer numbers, and that sounds very scary to me," Claudia Mo said. "I was a journalist and I did cover the Tiananmen bloodbath 30 years ago, and that's exactly what those students said back then in the Chinese capital." Her colleague, legislator Fernando Cheung, had been inside with those occupying the building, and said he was glad they all left safely without encountering police. "If they resisted... I'm afraid there would be bloodshed, or I think the police wouldn't be hesitant to use force to disperse them," he said. He praised those who came back and grabbed those who refused to leave. "They came back and they dragged them out. And we're actually glad that happened," he said. What did Carrie Lam say? In the early hours of Tuesday morning, Ms Lam called a press conference in which she denounced the "extreme use of violence and vandalism" by protesters who stormed parliament. Flanked by her security minister John Lee Ka-chiu and other officials, Ms Lam said the break-in "really saddens a lot of people and shocks a lot of people". She contrasted Monday's tumultuous events with the annual peaceful march on 1 July, which she said reflects "the core values we attach to peace and order" in Hong Kong. The press conference, held outside Hong Kong's police headquarters, was frantic, with a chorus of reporters shouting questions at Ms Lam. Ms Lam responded calmly, showing little emotion as she stressed the importance of maintaining the rule of law in Hong Kong. "I hope the community at large will agree with us that with these violent acts that we have seen, it is right for us to condemn it and hope society will return to normal as soon as possible," she told reporters. In an apparent warning to protesters, Ms Lam said Hong Kong's authorities would "pursue any illegal acts" carried out by protesters. Why is there unrest? Hong Kong enjoys a "one country, two systems" deal that guarantees it a level of autonomy, and rights not seen on mainland China. However, it does not have full democracy, and pro-democracy events are held every year to mark the handover. This year, however, the annual event follows weeks of protests which have seen millions take to the streets over the planned extradition bill. On 12 June, police used tear gas and rubber bullets to break up an unauthorised demonstration outside LegCo, where a debate about the bill was due to take place - but critics said it used excessive force. Police fire tear gas at protesters near the government headquarters in Hong Kong on 2 July In the wake of June's protests, the government apologised and suspended the planned extradition law. However, many protesters said they would not back down until the bill had been completely scrapped. There have also been smaller demonstrations by the territory's pro-Beijing movement. On Sunday, thousands of pro-Beijing protesters rallied in support of the Hong Kong police. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-48832910 *************************** Quite the escalation in this matter. Storming and vandalism the legislature. Got to hand it to Hong Kong residents, when they have an issue they don't protest all half assed for a day or two then forget about it. How long can Beijing let this go on? Edited July 2, 2019 by nuckin_futz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam13371337 Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 On 6/16/2019 at 9:42 PM, CBH1926 said: Besides having an army of 6.93 million, they started to organize millions more into home guard. Plus having prepared 10 000 shinyo, kaiten, kairy etc. for suicide missions as well as 6000 plus aircrafts to be used as kamikaze. captain America. im afraid your as wrong as both sides. there is the USA #1 propaganda side which you peddle. Then there is a genocide dead baby claim of the other side. Its all about FUEL FUEL and... FUEL . the biggest weakness of japan was its resource poor status that prevented its growth. US imposed an embargo on the Japanese that gave the Japanese 2 options. Surrender, or attack. this was a cold calculation by an American government that wanted to enter ww2, but faced an isolationist population that was dead set against it. Now fast forward to 1945. germany has been completely decapitated as a nation. The Japanese are now all alone facing notonly the entire wrath of the allies. but an expiring non-aggression pact with the soviet union. now the soviet union attacks from the north. They have no navy left. They are getting pummelled on a daily basis with hundreds of thousands of casualties. their very last refinery was bombed several weeks before their surrender. Which literally meant the entire Japanese army would be walking in days or weeks. They had nothing left to fight with. they were completely defeated physicaly and psychologically. nukes had 0 impact on them surrendering. Nukes were a super weapon the US wanted to demonstate to the soviet union. the Tokyo firebombings by us bombers killed over 100K civilians (more then both atom bombs put together) The second bomb was dropped almost before the Japanese could get the inevitable surrender in. this whole concept of "nuking to save 10 million lives" is the most ridiculous bull$&!# ive ever heard regarding this war. now the other side that virtue signals can stfu as well. Japan started the war. it was an all out total war for survival. They knew what the stakes and consequences were. The US had every right to go in there and pummel them into the stone age, Completey eradicate their militaristic culture, and turn them into permenant vassals. the only thing you could argue the US shouldn't have done was the mass rapes post surrender. there is simply no excuse for that kind of savagery after the enemy has surrendered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancaster Posted July 2, 2019 Author Share Posted July 2, 2019 2 hours ago, sam13371337 said: captain America. im afraid your as wrong as both sides. there is the USA #1 propaganda side which you peddle. Then there is a genocide dead baby claim of the other side. Its all about FUEL FUEL and... FUEL . the biggest weakness of japan was its resource poor status that prevented its growth. US imposed an embargo on the Japanese that gave the Japanese 2 options. Surrender, or attack. this was a cold calculation by an American government that wanted to enter ww2, but faced an isolationist population that was dead set against it. Now fast forward to 1945. germany has been completely decapitated as a nation. The Japanese are now all alone facing notonly the entire wrath of the allies. but an expiring non-aggression pact with the soviet union. now the soviet union attacks from the north. They have no navy left. They are getting pummelled on a daily basis with hundreds of thousands of casualties. their very last refinery was bombed several weeks before their surrender. Which literally meant the entire Japanese army would be walking in days or weeks. They had nothing left to fight with. they were completely defeated physicaly and psychologically. nukes had 0 impact on them surrendering. Nukes were a super weapon the US wanted to demonstate to the soviet union. the Tokyo firebombings by us bombers killed over 100K civilians (more then both atom bombs put together) The second bomb was dropped almost before the Japanese could get the inevitable surrender in. this whole concept of "nuking to save 10 million lives" is the most ridiculous bull$&!# ive ever heard regarding this war. now the other side that virtue signals can stfu as well. Japan started the war. it was an all out total war for survival. They knew what the stakes and consequences were. The US had every right to go in there and pummel them into the stone age, Completey eradicate their militaristic culture, and turn them into permenant vassals. the only thing you could argue the US shouldn't have done was the mass rapes post surrender. there is simply no excuse for that kind of savagery after the enemy has surrendered. Really getting off-topic.... You should really read up on the Japanese military plans to deal with Operation Downfall. They are available online for all to view. The level of defense put up just for Iwo Jima and Okinawa was already fanatical. The Japanese were already going to throw most of their remaining military assets at Kyushu when the allies were going to land there. There are tons of evidence of the Japanese training the populace to deal with the invasion force. The idea was to make the cost so high for the allies that they can get a more favourable peace deal. Whether you want to argue what's what or wrong, whether nukes were just or not... that's all semantics. That Japan was pretty much "forces" into the war, by the embargo, that's all depending on perspective. War is rarely "right or wrong", it's a numbers game really. The numbers says more lives were saved due to the nukes, that's not really debatable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckster19 Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 Is no one aware of the plan to overthrow the emperor on August 14th? It’s the true reason why they surrendered because they knew they wouldn’t survive another coup attempt. Japanese officials were discussing surrender long before the USSR invaded Manchuria. The only reason they didn’t surrender after Hiroshima was because the fanatical wing of the military wasn’t going to agree to it no matter what happened. Only after the coup did certain members of the military realize the predicament they were in and finally backed the side of the government that wished to surrender, the others having been killed in the attempt. Why hey did the coup fail? Because an American air raid on the night of the coup knocked out power and communications in the part of Tokyo it was taking place so the military was unable to properly organize and time their attempt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken. Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 Was the HK LegCo takeover by ‘protestors’ a false flag attempt to sew discourse amongst the general public and create negative publicity for the (majority) pro-dem side? I wouldnt put it past the pro-Beijing groups to do such a thing.. backed by the scummy communist party anything is possible, so villainous its like a movie. I am much more interested in this current event then debating whether the use of nukes in ww2 was justified - go make a history discussion thread 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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