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[Proposal] Drafting 22 and 33


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To LA

10 OA + Sutter 

 

To Vancouver

22 + 33 what could go wrong + Clifford + Kovalchik 2m retained

 

LA moves up in the draft and sheds Kovalchuk. 

 

The Canucks move into Moritz Sieder/ Kaliyev/Lavoie/Knight territory. Which frankly I'd be as happy with any of them as many of the players ranked around 10. Clifford with Roussel gives us one of the most hated 4th lines in hockey. And it's basically Kovi for Sutter here with the salary retained on Kovi the money is pretty much a wash. Sutter hasn't been able to tap into Goldobin and release anything there I think Kovalchuk might be able to unlock something in him, also might be the clincher in luring big tram back. 

 

Virtanen Pete Boeser

Bear Bo Pearson

Goldy Gaud Kovi

Clifford Beagle Roussel

 

There are going to be some very good players who fall to that 33rd pick Hoglander/Vlassic/Thompson etc. 

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12 minutes ago, hammertime said:

To LA

10 OA + Sutter 

 

To Vancouver

22 + 33 what could go wrong + Clifford + Kovalchik 2m retained

 

LA moves up in the draft and sheds Kovalchuk. 

 

The Canucks move into Moritz Sieder/ Kaliyev/Lavoie/Knight territory. Which frankly I'd be as happy with any of them as many of the players ranked around 10. Clifford with Roussel gives us one of the most hated 4th lines in hockey. And it's basically Kovi for Sutter here with the salary retained on Kovi the money is pretty much a wash. Sutter hasn't been able to tap into Goldobin and release anything there I think Kovalchuk might be able to unlock something in him, also might be the clincher in luring big tram back. 

 

Virtanen Pete Boeser

Bear Bo Pearson

Goldy Gaud Kovi

Clifford Beagle Roussel

 

There are going to be some very good players who fall to that 33rd pick Hoglander/Vlassic/Thompson etc. 

I doubt ?Seider falls to 22.  I think I’d rather have one of Broberg or Seider, than two of those other guys.  

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Why are some fans, hellbent on making us worse?

 

If they need to shed Kovalchuk, we don't want him, even with 2 million retained. Its not up to us to fix other teams cap problems and make ourselves worse in the process.

 

If we had to do something with them on this,

 

To Vancouver:

Kovalchuk - 2 million retained

22nd overall pick from Toronto

 

To Los Angeles:

Sutter

3rd round pick in 2019 draft

 

 

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6 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

Why are some fans, hellbent on making us worse?

 

If they need to shed Kovalchuk, we don't want him, even with 2 million retained. Its not up to us to fix other teams cap problems and make ourselves worse in the process.

 

If we had to do something with them on this,

 

To Vancouver:

Kovalchuk - 2 million retained

22nd overall pick from Toronto

 

To Los Angeles:

Sutter

3rd round pick in 2019 draft

 

 

BeCaUsE KoVaChYEaK iS GuD iN NhL 19Zz!

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10 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

Why are some fans, hellbent on making us worse?

 

If they need to shed Kovalchuk, we don't want him, even with 2 million retained. Its not up to us to fix other teams cap problems and make ourselves worse in the process.

 

If we had to do something with them on this,

 

To Vancouver:

Kovalchuk - 2 million retained

22nd overall pick from Toronto

 

To Los Angeles:

Sutter

3rd round pick in 2019 draft

 

 

Not every trade proposal needs to be a landslide for the canucks.

 

I think we do get better here. Remember they traded Muzzin for that pick. 

 

I take 4.5 m Kovi 10/10 over Sutter. Clifford gives us some grunt. 

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16 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

Why are some fans, hellbent on making us worse?

 

If they need to shed Kovalchuk, we don't want him, even with 2 million retained. Its not up to us to fix other teams cap problems and make ourselves worse in the process.

 

If we had to do something with them on this,

 

To Vancouver:

Kovalchuk - 2 million retained

22nd overall pick from Toronto

 

To Los Angeles:

Sutter

3rd round pick in 2019 draft

 

 

Retaining $2m on Kovalchuk plus Sutter’s cap  means they actually increase their cap by $130k and don’t save any term.  Why do they trade 22nd oa to switch from Kovalchuk to Sutter? 

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4 minutes ago, CanucksCountry said:

and why do we do this?

 

Most of the players I'm most excited about in this draft are in the late teens early 20s of the draft and the late 20s early 30s I happen to think in those spots we can hit on players who are as good or better than the players who drop to the bottom of the top 10. I'm not super sold on hitting a home run with Caufield, Krebs, Zegras, Broberg, Soderstrom. It all depends on who is there. I like Boldy Podkolzin and Newhook. Have the feeling the first 2 will be gone and Newhook is an enigma. JB could easily get a top 10 player at 22 there are players who fit our needs better in that range just my opinion Sieder/Kaliyev/Knight/Lavoie etc as I mentioned I would be equally if not more excited about than say Zegras who might be the highest ranked player left at 10. 

 

I think we have a $&!#ty culture regarding Russians and that is a brutal handicap as many great players are Russian. Kovi is a step in the right direction to change that culture I think Goldobin has untapped potential but no mentorship. I would also like to see us bring Tram back. Having Goldy Kovi Podkolzin/ Kaliyev would be a step in a better direction for the club just my opinion. 

 

I happen to like Clifford and what he brings I think he goes a long way towards creating an environment where if you touch our stars we will up Clifford roussel and virtanens mins and take runs at your stars. He doesnt hurt us defensively either. He may sit in the box but at that point the game is getting out of hand and he probably got a damn good lick in.

 

I think there are going to be very good players drop out of the 1st having 2 high seconds puts us in a great position to grab a potential top 4 D and another power fwd allowing JB to focus purely on high end skill with 22 who have fallen through the cracks based on other holes in their game. I think at 10 there is more pressure to pick the highest ranked player where at 22 you pick the player you rank highest. 

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Drafting information,

Just for your information the drafting of the twins (22&33) is the last time the Canucks have had a 1,2 0r 3 pick.I could not believe that it has been 20 years since our last top three pick at the draft.

 

Can there be any doubt why our rebuild is a bit "slower"(SARCASM) than other teams.

In fifty years the Canucks have had 0 #1 picks, 5 #2 picks and 3 #3 picks in fifty years so ya, a bit SLOWER.

That's right, we could use some luck at the draft and here is a clear example that we ARE DUE

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If the Nux trade down I see them swapping with Minny and taking Soderstrom and picking up an extra 2nd or something.  I really don't see going down past 14 or 15 and that's IF the guy they really want is gone already before 10.  It would be a draft floor deal.  All that said, I fully expect the Nux to draft at 10.  Think BPA

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33 minutes ago, Crabcakes said:

If the Nux trade down I see them swapping with Minny and taking Soderstrom and picking up an extra 2nd or something.  I really don't see going down past 14 or 15 and that's IF the guy they really want is gone already before 10.  It would be a draft floor deal.  All that said, I fully expect the Nux to draft at 10.  Think BPA

Minnesota has no interest in giving up picks.  It's more likely them that would be willing to move down to add a 2nd.  Fenton talks of how bare their cupboards are.  They need to re-stock with Fletcher having traded so many picks the past seasons.  

 

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7 minutes ago, mll said:

Minnesota has no interest in giving up picks.  It's more likely them that would be willing to move down to add a 2nd.  Fenton talks of how bare their cupboards are.  They need to re-stock with Fletcher having traded so many picks the past seasons.  

 

It's just an example, I have no idea if Minny would bite.  Florida, Arizona, and Montreal are other candidates.  And the return wouldn't have to be picks as we well know from JB's record.

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2 hours ago, By sea and land said:

Philly is dangling #11 overall. How do we get that? 

 

If we could secure #11 to pair with our own #10, perhaps a trade up?

 

I think that would give our team plenty of options on Friday at the draft.

 

 

 

They are looking for a difference maker.  Fletcher and AGM Brent Flahr made perfectly clear that they are not interested in rentals or quantity.  They want to compete now.  Their target is established young impact players who can be with the team for the long term.  

 

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8 hours ago, hammertime said:

Most of the players I'm most excited about in this draft are in the late teens early 20s of the draft and the late 20s early 30s I happen to think in those spots we can hit on players who are as good or better than the players who drop to the bottom of the top 10. I'm not super sold on hitting a home run with Caufield, Krebs, Zegras, Broberg, Soderstrom. It all depends on who is there. I like Boldy Podkolzin and Newhook. Have the feeling the first 2 will be gone and Newhook is an enigma. JB could easily get a top 10 player at 22 there are players who fit our needs better in that range just my opinion Sieder/Kaliyev/Knight/Lavoie etc as I mentioned I would be equally if not more excited about than say Zegras who might be the highest ranked player left at 10. 

 

I think we have a $&!#ty culture regarding Russians and that is a brutal handicap as many great players are Russian. Kovi is a step in the right direction to change that culture I think Goldobin has untapped potential but no mentorship. I would also like to see us bring Tram back. Having Goldy Kovi Podkolzin/ Kaliyev would be a step in a better direction for the club just my opinion. 

 

I happen to like Clifford and what he brings I think he goes a long way towards creating an environment where if you touch our stars we will up Clifford roussel and virtanens mins and take runs at your stars. He doesnt hurt us defensively either. He may sit in the box but at that point the game is getting out of hand and he probably got a damn good lick in.

 

I think there are going to be very good players drop out of the 1st having 2 high seconds puts us in a great position to grab a potential top 4 D and another power fwd allowing JB to focus purely on high end skill with 22 who have fallen through the cracks based on other holes in their game. I think at 10 there is more pressure to pick the highest ranked player where at 22 you pick the player you rank highest. 

Benning is good, but he can't pick Boeser's every year with a 20th+ overall.  I think the data is pretty solid that % of drafting quality players starts to drop significantly after top 10-15.  I'd rather keep my safe pick at 10.  Benning is guaranteed to get #10 player on his list (most likely he'll get his 7-8th)....if he drops to 22, most likely he won't get the first 15 on his list.

 

Plus another reason it won't happen....since 2005 there have been only 8 trades involving top 10 picks in June and only 4 of them to move up in the draft.

 

If you look at the trades, teams are trading 2nd and 3rd rounder to move 2,3,4 spots top.    If LA wants to jump from 22 to 10....they have to pay a hell of a lot more than the 33rd overall.  Nevermind the Kovy, Clifford and Sutter movement, that has literally no value to this trade IMO.

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, hammertime said:

To LA

10 OA + Sutter 

 

To Vancouver

22 + 33 what could go wrong + Clifford + Kovalchik 2m retained

 

LA moves up in the draft and sheds Kovalchuk. 

 

The Canucks move into Moritz Sieder/ Kaliyev/Lavoie/Knight territory. Which frankly I'd be as happy with any of them as many of the players ranked around 10. Clifford with Roussel gives us one of the most hated 4th lines in hockey. And it's basically Kovi for Sutter here with the salary retained on Kovi the money is pretty much a wash. Sutter hasn't been able to tap into Goldobin and release anything there I think Kovalchuk might be able to unlock something in him, also might be the clincher in luring big tram back. 

 

Virtanen Pete Boeser

Bear Bo Pearson

Goldy Gaud Kovi

Clifford Beagle Roussel

 

There are going to be some very good players who fall to that 33rd pick Hoglander/Vlassic/Thompson etc. 

 

To Ottawa:  #10,  Tanev

 

To Vancouver:  #19,  #32,  Demelo

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11 hours ago, qwijibo said:

Retaining $2m on Kovalchuk plus Sutter’s cap  means they actually increase their cap by $130k and don’t save any term.  Why do they trade 22nd oa to switch from Kovalchuk to Sutter? 

Kovalchuk is 36 now, personally, I think he was struggling a little last year in the NHL. Really don't want him on the Canucks, don't think that he makes us better, but would commit us on salary for 2 more years, and he's NMC, so we'd have to protect him in expansion draft. 

 

I personally think the whole trade proposal would set us back a year.

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12 hours ago, hammertime said:

Not every trade proposal needs to be a landslide for the canucks.

 

I think we do get better here. Remember they traded Muzzin for that pick. 

 

I take 4.5 m Kovi 10/10 over Sutter. Clifford gives us some grunt. 

You'd take Kovalchuk over Sutter and be stuck protecting him in Expansion draft because of his NMC?

 

HARD pass for me!

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