Nils Hoglander | #21 | LW

[JM_]

4 minutes ago, stawns said:

Because that's what you do on a discussion board isn't it?  Hoglander is showing some serious offense in this tourney and Podz looks like he might be a solid fit in the bottom 6 to start his career. 

 

That makes for a lot of options and a surplus of high end fwds, meaning it gives JB some chips to play to keep the window open longer. 

 

2-3 seasons from now, when this team is really hitting it's stride and getting later and later picks and fewer and fewer high end players in the draft to replace vetetan players on expensive contracts.......you wouldn't even entertain the idea of moving Boes for a blue chip prospect or top 10 pick?

we're also going to need ELC-level players that can contribute, both to help fill out our lineup but we might have to unfortunately move one of these kids to move a contract if Loui doesn't Luongo-out and the cap doesn't go up. That would be unfortunate but might ultimately be what has to happen. I don't think its inevitable that it must happen but we'll just have to wait and see if Petey and Hughes go bridge vs. McDavid style deals.

 

Seattle may also take care of some of our cap issues, if e.g., they take Myers. 

 

There's so many things that can happen we just have to wait and see. 

[Ray_Cathode]

10 hours ago, Phat Fingers said:

5"9 and has the core strength of a 6'2 defender.  this guys workouts are already the stuff of legend.  

 

I cannot wait to see his impact on our prospect camp and AHLers next year.  

Yeah, this guy is a real challenge to anyone working out beside him... Hoglander actually looks like he enjoys putting himself through hell.

[Canuck Surfer]

18 minutes ago, stawns said:

Sorry, I just don't see it from him.  I'm not complaining about his scoring ability, at all.  It's actually that ability that makes him such an incredibly valuable chip and, quite frankly, they'd be able to have Virt, hog, Podz and a good depth fwd for the same price as one Boeser (especially with his next contract).

See just below for your answer.

 

The problem with being a passionate fan sometimes.  Even a hockey guy like yourself? People set the bar at Pavel Bure. Or you are a disappointment. It is BS IMO. I am being harsh. You only suggested we could trade him. It is still giving up on him early. Noting that ''we can trade him'' because Jake is starting to produce. I am happy we are excited for Jake! But he is scoring at half Boeser's rate. While ''breaking out.'' 

 

Same thing in Toronto. Or our CDC critics regarding the Leafs. If Nylander is not a two way physical beast. Or scoring 100 points? He is a bum! Same with Monahan in Calgary. 

 

Guys like Boeser & Nylander, other teams drool over getting.  Maybe they are not 1st team ALL NHL talent. Not yet anyway. But they are fantastic NHL players.  With tremendous upside. I would not be surprised if either hit 100 points or 50 goals once in their careers.  I would be surprised if they DID NOT hit 40 goals at least once, and 80 points several times in their careers. I repeat that I believe Boeser is capable of hitting 50 goals.

 

Brock might hit 80 points this year.

 

19 minutes ago, Dixon Ward said:

We have a guy who is the 5th highest scoring RW in the nhl.  We have some strong prospects.  We are trying to build our scoring depth.  So we start talking about trading the best RW we have by far who is 23 and just coming into his prime?  CDC makes no sense at times

Plus one!

 

Boeser is just 22. Daniel Sedin had a high of 20 goals at 22 years old. Did not hit 30 till he was 26 almost 27.  We need some patience...

[stawns]

3 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

See just below for your answer.

 

The problem with being a passionate fan sometimes.  Even a hockey guy like yourself? People set the bar at Pavel Bure. Or you are a disappointment. It is BS IMO. I am being harsh. You only suggested we could trade him. It is still giving up on him early. Noting that ''we can trade him'' because Jake is starting to produce. I am happy we are excited for Jake! But he is scoring at half Boeser's rate. While ''breaking out.'' 

 

Same thing in Toronto. Or our CDC critics regarding the Leafs. If Nylander is not a two way physical beast. Or scoring 100 points? He is a bum! Same with Monahan in Calgary. 

 

Guys like Boeser & Nylander, other teams drool over getting.  Maybe they are not 1st team ALL NHL talent. Not yet anyway. But they are fantastic NHL players.  With tremendous upside. I would not be surprised if either hit 100 points or 50 goals once in their careers.  I would be surprised if they DID NOT hit 40 goals at least once, and 80 points several times in their careers. I repeat that I believe Boeser is capable of hitting 50 goals.

 

Brock might hit 80 points this year.

 

Plus one!

 

Boeser is just 22. Daniel Sedin had a high of 20 goals at 22 years old. Did not hit 30 till he was 26 almost 27.  We need some patience...

You seem to think I'm advocating dumping BB.......quite the opposite.  He will be a high value asset, in a cpl years, and one they'd be able to manage moving out to improve in another area because they have so many young, high end fwds in the system. 

 

Boes will bring in a hefty return and that will, imo, extend the window win longer than keeping him.

[stawns]

23 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

we're also going to need ELC-level players that can contribute, both to help fill out our lineup but we might have to unfortunately move one of these kids to move a contract if Loui doesn't Luongo-out and the cap doesn't go up. That would be unfortunate but might ultimately be what has to happen. I don't think its inevitable that it must happen but we'll just have to wait and see if Petey and Hughes go bridge vs. McDavid style deals.

 

Seattle may also take care of some of our cap issues, if e.g., they take Myers. 

 

There's so many things that can happen we just have to wait and see. 

The poster who cited Boston's ability to move out high value players in their prime for blue chip prospects or high picks to extend their window is dead on.  To me, Boes is the prime candidate for that move, along with one of the goalies..........if the young, high end skill prospects in their pipeline hit.

[Herberts Vasiljevs]

I agree that this hypothetical scenario of moving Boeser down the road pertains to Hoglander, what he's accomplishing at the WJC, and his future with the Canucks. Fully agreed guys! 100%.

Edited December 31, 2019 by Herberts Vasiljevs

[stawns]

29 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

My point is it is a big if and wishful thinking even for CDC.

 

2-3 guys need to be better than Boes to consider moving him. Especially when Miller will almost be gone if and as these guys are establishing themselves at the NHL level.

They don't need to be better, but I'd bet that Jake, Hog and Podz would more than make up for losing Boeser.  

 

I'd far rather give Miller the contract Boeser will be asking for.

[Wanless]

3 minutes ago, stawns said:

The poster who cited Boston's ability to move out high value players in their prime for blue chip prospects or high picks to extend their window is dead on.  To me, Boes is the prime candidate for that move, along with one of the goalies..........if the young, high end skill prospects in their pipeline hit.

I come in here to see updates and talk about Hoglander and I get to read arguing over trading Boeser

 

I'm not going to weigh in on that discussion but please move it to proposals or the Boeser thread

[Junkyard Dog]

Just now, stawns said:

They don't need to be better, but I'd bet that Jake, Hog and Podz would more than make up for losing Boeser.  

 

I'd far rather give Miller the contract Boeser will be asking for.

They would need to be pretty darn good as individuals.  I'd rather have those 2-3 guys and that elite scorer that way you have a deep team. We're fortunate that Pearson is stepping up in a top 6 role this year but we're gonna need another one when Pearson is gone as well. So that's 2-3 top 6 forwards we already need. You're banking on Hog, Pod and Virtanen to be close to Boes in 3 years when his contract is done? I am assuming you want to move Boes before we have to sign him long-term correct me if I am wrong.

 

I wouldn't. Miller will be 30 in four years when his contract is done and Boeser would be 25 when he needs a new deal a year earlier than Miller. Boeser's next contract is gonna take him through his prime years while Miller will be closer to the end of his prime.

 

You're asking a lot of those 3 players, 2 of which are still prospects. IDK man. I am not sold on everyone panning out like that right now.

[stawns]

Just now, Junkyard Dog said:

They would need to be pretty darn good as individuals.  I'd rather have those 2-3 guys and that elite scorer that way you have a deep team. We're fortunate that Pearson is stepping up in a top 6 role this year but we're gonna need another one when Pearson is gone as well. So that's 2-3 top 6 forwards we already need. You're banking on Hog, Pod and Virtanen to be close to Boes in 3 years when his contract is done? I am assuming you want to move Boes before we have to sign him long-term correct me if I am wrong.

 

I wouldn't. Miller will be 30 in four years when his contract is done and Boeser would be 25 when he needs a new deal a year earlier than Miller. Boeser's next contract is gonna take him through his prime years while Miller will be closer to the end of his prime.

 

You're asking a lot of those 3 players, 2 of which are still prospects. IDK man. I am not sold on everyone panning out like that right now.

Who said right now?  The discussion started with "if hoglander truly does pan out....."

[Junkyard Dog]

Just now, stawns said:

Who said right now?  The discussion started with "if hoglander truly does pan out....."

You also implied not signing Boeser long term. I am under the assumption you want him gone before his next deal.

 

So what I was saying was under the impression that you think Hog, Pod and Virtanen are gonna be good enough in 3 years for us to replace Boes and I stated my points based off that.

[stawns]

Just now, Junkyard Dog said:

You also implied not signing Boeser long term. I am under the assumption you want him gone before his next deal.

 

So what I was saying was under the impression that you think Hog, Pod and Virtanen are gonna be good enough in 3 years for us to replace Boes and I stated my points based off that.

That's a different discussion.  I didn't want JB to sign him for the $6-7m contract that was rumoured........I was ok with him at almost the exact number he came in at.

[Junkyard Dog]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

That's a different discussion.  I didn't want JB to sign him for the $6-7m contract that was rumoured........I was ok with him at almost the exact number he came in at.

Hmm. I guess I missed the initial point and based what I said from something afterwards.

 

Would be nice if Hog turned into something special. I'd like the Canucks to have a big little guy.

[-DLC-]

Let's get back on topic please/thanks.

[ilduce39]

31 minutes ago, stawns said:

You seem to think I'm advocating dumping BB.......quite the opposite.  He will be a high value asset, in a cpl years, and one they'd be able to manage moving out to improve in another area because they have so many young, high end fwds in the system. 

 

Boes will bring in a hefty return and that will, imo, extend the window win longer than keeping him.

I get what you’re saying and I’m high on Brock.  He’d easily return a blue chip pick/prospect or land a D-man. That’s no slight on Brock, but I’d rather the team spend on C and D before the wings and Petey and Quinn are going to get paid.
 

For me, a lot will also depend on what BB is asking for on his next deal, though. If he’s willing to take a haircut on a “hometown” deal (slight increase to just under 7 mil?) I think he brings enough on and off the ice that it’ll be a no brainer to build around him. 

[stawns]

1 minute ago, ilduce39 said:

I get what you’re saying and I’m high on Brock.  He’d easily return a blue chip pick/prospect or land a D-man. That’s no slight on Brock, but I’d rather the team spend on C and D before the wings and Petey and Quinn are going to get paid.
 

For me, a lot will also depend on what BB is asking for on his next deal, though. If he’s willing to take a haircut on a “hometown” deal (slight increase to just under 7 mil?) I think he brings enough on and off the ice that it’ll be a no brainer to build around him. 

Absolutely, and to keep on topic, I think Hog will be the determining factor.  I can see him coming in next year, or the year after and forcing his way into the top 6 and being pretty productive from the get go, depending on who he plays with.

[Nuxfanabroad]

2 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

I get what you’re saying and I’m high on Brock.  He’d easily return a blue chip pick/prospect or land a D-man. That’s no slight on Brock, but I’d rather the team spend on C and D before the wings and Petey and Quinn are going to get paid.
 

For me, a lot will also depend on what BB is asking for on his next deal, though. If he’s willing to take a haircut on a “hometown” deal (slight increase to just under 7 mil?) I think he brings enough on and off the ice that it’ll be a no brainer to build around him. 

Pretty much this. 2.5 yrs on, & all the contractual flotsam/jetsam will be tossed.

 

At that pt, hopefully our young, key core will all accept 10-20% below market. They seem to be building a nice tight crew.

[ilduce39]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

Absolutely, and to keep on topic, I think Hog will be the determining factor.  I can see him coming in next year, or the year after and forcing his way into the top 6 and being pretty productive from the get go, depending on who he plays with.

Hoglander panning out would give us a ton of options.  Fingers crossed but looks good so far!

[ilduce39]

9 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Pretty much this. 2.5 yrs on, & all the contractual flotsam/jetsam will be tossed.

 

At that pt, hopefully our young, key core will all accept 10-20% below market. They seem to be building a nice tight crew.

It was almost easier when we were just cellar dwelling and talking about how bright the future was going to be.  
 

The transition here is really going to determine whether we get back to real “contender” status or not.  Hoglander / Podkozlin are still very important to the future. 

[Canuck Surfer]

34 minutes ago, stawns said:

You seem to think I'm advocating dumping BB.......quite the opposite.  He will be a high value asset, in a cpl years, and one they'd be able to manage moving out to improve in another area because they have so many young, high end fwds in the system. 

 

Boes will bring in a hefty return and that will, imo, extend the window win longer than keeping him.

Lets get there first? I'll give an example in a sec. And fair enough.

 

Its great, not just that we have some success stories. That we seem to actually have a legitimate pipeline going.  Some guys who project to be as good as the new & improved Jake. Maybe even better?

 

LA in 2012 is the perfect example. As a prospect Brayden Schenn looked like a legit 2knd liner, maybe better. Same with Simmonds. They traded them, landed in their prime first line players. But they built that pipeline for over 8 years. Before they had ''so much'' surplus. Also traded Jack Johnson because they Martinez & that Russian wife beater coming.  That they could trade from strength. We're not there yet. 

 

Boston had not won yet when they traded the guys you mentioned. Well, Seguin. But I dont believe they advanced their cause trading  him or Thornton. Hamilton was not living up to expectations, they were having trouble coaching, assimilating him.  Seguin was another culture problem? And an example like Jake, might even prove the opposite. That if you bear down and develop these guys, not give up on them. Force them to earn their role! Or pay them too much too early?  Boston gave Lucic & Hornton, also Rask a WHACK of money when they first started producing. They traded players because they let their cost & cap get out of control. They were paying the wrong guys.

 

Kessel was the stereotype lazy, overpaid, indulgent, but demanding player it is hard to win with. I do give them props for trading him. They also traded Wheeler? I guess it helped them get a championship.  But they lost the better player IMO. Wheeler / Peverley, who would you rather have??

 

Imagine how good they would have been the last 5 years if they kept Seguin & Wheeler?

 

In two years virtually all our veteran contracts, save Myers & Miller will have a year left. Are done.

 

I dont believe we will have Bostons problem in paying our young stars.  I believe having a pipeline of ELC's also arriving at that time will allow us to be in on ''this years Panarin.'' I dont see wheeling and dealing Boeser in my vision.

 

But it is a forum. I am not unhappy you posted your thoughts.