The Canucks fluke rebuid, and some how it's right on track

[Arrow 1983]

Fluke, an unlikely chance occurrence, especially a surprising piece of luck.

 

Step 1, stay competitive for the Sedins, 2 of the greatest players ever to play for the Canucks. (Agree or disagree with this is not the purpose of this topic this is a topic of how we got here and just one persons point of view as why I like where the Canucks are headed after this years draft.)

 

Step 2, Hire JB, a guy known for drafting well, The purpose I believe was to hire him to find good players at the bottom half of the first round as we were suppose to make the playoffs each year and still stay competitive as the Sedins retire. ( of course this only happened once and he did his job well and got us BB). 

 

Step 3, we miss playoffs, and the rebuild begins is still not truly acknowledged by management, so JB and his team pick a Home grown talent in JV, (I still like him as a player and believe he has much more to offer to the Canucks). JV is both a big body and has speed it is his speed and not big body that will allow this kid a long career in the new NHL. Canuck management probably sees a guy who will excel in the playoffs as they keep competing to stay a completive playoff bound team.

 

Step 3, Make playoffs, the Canucks believe there theory is working, JB does his job and drafts BB in the later half of first round and hits on Adam Gaudette in the fifth round as well.

 

Step 4, Miss playoffs, Management doesn't realize it yet but they're headed into a full rebuild probably due to their next move. Management realizes the Sedins need a winger to play with Burrows can't do it anymore. 1/2 the fans want a rebuild by now 1/2 like the signing. (I'm being nice to team tank right now less then 1/2 on side of team tank at this point those that disagree wit LE signing actualy wanted ML instead the loyalty to the Sedins is pretty high even at this point in the rebuild). 

 

Canucks draft Olli Juolevi to address future defensive needs. Key word here future please don't tell me he is a bust time will tell but last years AHL stats show that he was on an up tick prior to his injury and an injury doesn't mean a player is a bust. ( guys like Segacheve drafted 9th, McAvory Drafted 14th, and Chychrun Drafted 16th, mean other GMs had reason to past them over as well. You can make the arguement that their where better forwards then OJ but i honestly believe JB picked the best Dman available at the time. That being said, the better forwards where wingers thus, if Cs and Ds are more coveted JB logical picked the best player available at the time no hindsight being used ).

 

Step 4, miss the playoffs, most fans are now acknowledging we are in full rebuild mood and Management is start to believe it to. JB makes the steal of the Draft and selects EP.

 

Step 5, ,Miss the playoffs and everyone now understands we are in full rebuild welcome to our side Canuck Management, QH drops to Canucks and JB is smart enough to take him. 

 

During this time either with management trying to stay competitive or having a little foresight that you can't actually rebuild a whole team through drafts it would take 10 years and by the time you draft years 6,7,8,9, players your young guys from years 1,2,3,4,5 are in their primes and ready to compete, the Canucks management start acquiring anyone and every one they can to speed up the rebuild. Some are busts some are good.  Through this we now have depth guys on forward and have not had much success on D.

 

(note newer guys I will spell there names older guys just there initials we are all fans here we should know who these guys are).

 

Centre depth

EP, BH, BS, JB, AG, and now for worst cases JT Miller. This is the importance of the JT Miller trade and why I love it, IF BS or JB get injured AG can take there place as A fourth line center. But what if EP or BH get injured do you want Sutter or Miller to be your second line centre. How about this, who now becomes your second unit powerplay centre again do you want Sutter or Miller. remember both EP and BH play the first unit powerplay. Sutter and Beagle are your shut down players where offence goes to die penalty kill specialist. EP BH and Miller is your point producers finally we have 6 centre man who can play in the lineup every game. Miller can play top six wing and fill in on top 2 centre and AG will learn to play wing and fill in on bottom 2 centre and develop into an all round centre who may have a ceiling as a number 2 centre. I would argue this is a playoff bound top centre depth.

 

Forward depth, 

Top 4, BB, Jt Miller, SB, Tanner Pearson, 

Bottom depth

Roussel, JV, and a group of these guys dependent on trade Spooner, Leivo, Granlund, Goldobin and Motte. (put JV in this category if the trade is good enough). Assuming that we don't trade a centre IMO it would be a bad thing to do so look above for reason at centre depth, 6 of 13 spots are taken. and 3 more at forward BB, SB and TP.  9 of 13 spots are taken leaving 4 spots if we carry 8 d-men as we have done for the last few years. I would argue Roussel is a lock as a top nine and so is JV cause if there is injury with BB, Miller, SB or TP he is best guy to fill in unless there is a trade good enough to make JB give him up ie. top 4 d-man or top 6 forward preferable for a top 4 d-man. We could Carry 14 forwards I could see this happening for us to keep Motte. But for Spooner, Leivo, Granlund and Goldobin it is play or trade in my mind.

 

That leaves us Defence. We need a guy either through trade or UFA. 

Tradeable Possibilities JV, Hutton, Leivo, Granlund, Goldobin, and Spooner. And yes I will say it next years 1st round draft pick if we don't make the playoffs or 2021 first round pick if we do make the playoffs. Yes this pick can still be used to get a top d-man.

 

Or UFA Myers or Gardiner.

 

And if it was up to me 1 of Jordie Benn or Ben Chiarot for defensive depth guys if you don't know who these guys are look them up they are the steals of this UFA class. Chiarot especially.

 

Little side note want a true bottom 6 forward depth, Brandon Tanev, Would make this team a top PK team in the league with Sutter and Beagle. Add the fact we Have Chris Tanev and through in a guy like Jordie Benn or Chiarot to a lesser degree and we would have the fewest amount of goals score on our pk.

 

There you have it the Fluke rebuild of the Canucks. Does not look like a fluke at all almost like it was designed except for the fact we have stole EP and QH dropped to us rebuilds are part luck and part finding players that complement the players you draft so far JB has done this well and we look to be a playoff bound team next season and seasons to come.

 

For those who want to fire JB ask yourself is their anyone else you would trust or the Canucks could hire to Draft guys in the later half of the 1st round or in the later rounds. Cause I would argue that that is where we are headed starting next season. 

 

Thank you JB for rebuilding this team in 5 years instead of 10 like team tank wants keep up the great work and go get us some defensive help this week or on July 1st. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 23, 2019 by Arrow 1983

[Brovat]

I think Gaud is an upgrade to Sutter at this point. Change my mind. 

[Arrow 1983]

3 minutes ago, Brovat said:

I think Gaud is an upgrade to Sutter at this point. Change my mind. 

why not let Gaud have one full season before we or management decide that if is true trade Sutter at the trade deadline if not and we trade him now there goes our depth

 

Young speed depth that is the new NHL

Edited June 23, 2019 by Arrow 1983

[MeanSeanBean]

I don't think it's luck that the rebuild is doing well. It's hard work and sticking to the game plan. Benning has stuck to his guns his entire tenure here, and the organization has believed in what he was building. He never made choices in regards to the possible negative outcomes or fan reaction. Benning and his team have drafted well and made some good moves (and some bad ones) and have decided it's time to move forward onto the next step.

 

While I don't agree with it, I'm ready to see what's in store. This wasn't a fluke, this was by design.

Edited June 23, 2019 by shayster007

[Brovat]

1 minute ago, Arrow 1983 said:

why not let Gaud have one full season before we or management decide that if is true trade Sutter at the trade deadline if not and we trade him now there goes our depth

Sure whatever they figure. I just think he’s better already especially when taking into account cap hit. 

[Tystick]

Design.

JB has had the same standards since he started.

[oldnews]

misunderstood/not understood by either/or thinkers

[Grape]

Neither/Both. Nothings ever comes to fruition exactly as design. Nothing. You can argue this is especially true of JBs Canucks since he started with the Boston mentality of getting bigger and now it seems like his strategy, especially through drafting, has changed. With that in mind when JB gave Kesler the word that we weren’t going to be competing for a cup for like 5 years, he hasn’t been wrong on that end. Of course he would’ve liked us to be more competitive but that didn’t happen. That alone doesn’t make everything a fluke. He has still stuck to his principals and strengths which is drafting well, and our current core going forward are due to him making the correct choices at the spots we were positioned in the prior drafts.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

32 minutes ago, Brovat said:

I think Gaud is an upgrade to Sutter at this point. Change my mind. 

Yeah sure he’s an upgrade over an injured Sutter.  But a healthy Sutter?  Not a chance (at least at this point in Gaudette career).  Sutter plays the tough defensive minutes.  he’s not the greatest playmaker but that’s not his role (offense).  As such, he doesn’t need highly skilled wingers (only that they not be liabilities on defense) to be effective defensively.  You need such centers on any team.  Yeah you could put Horvat in such a role but you’d waste his offensively abilities.

[Where's Wellwood]

We have never won a lottery pick have have only dropped in the draft. That's why any rebuild we're in doesn't look like a rebuild. Because we're missing the McDavid/Eichel/Matthews/Laine/J. Hughes types of player that we deserve based on the standings. Luck gave us Pettersson instead.

[CanuckGAME]

Didnt even read a single word in the OP.  

 

Benning said since day one of his hire he was going to build through the draft,  get younger and faster, inject as much skill as possible.

 

Hes done just that.  

 

How could anyone think what we have today is a fluke?

[Brovat]

Just now, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Yeah sure he’s an upgrade over an injured Sutter.  But a healthy Sutter?  Not a chance (at least at this point in Gaudette career).  Sutter plays the tough defensive minutes.  he’s not the greatest playmaker but that’s not his role (offense).  As such, he doesn’t need highly skilled wingers (only that they not be liabilities on defense) to be effective defensively.  You need such centers on any team.  Yeah you could put Horvat in such a role but you’d waste his offensively abilities.

I don’t agree. Gaud is defensively responsible and I expect a Kesler like growth in his abilities over the next 2 seasons. He didn’t score much because he’s way more interested in not being the guy that gets burned. 

 

Let the future 3 centers play and grow together. 

[J-23]

Not a fluke rebuild 

 

/thread

[Arrow 1983]

33 minutes ago, CanuckGAME said:

Didnt even read a single word in the OP.  

 

Benning said since day one of his hire he was going to build through the draft,  get younger and faster, inject as much skill as possible.

 

Hes done just that.  

 

How could anyone think what we have today is a fluke?

Maybe you should read it I come to the conclusion it is by design and a little luck it is a topic of conversation I just write it and defend my points and let others come to their conclusions.

[Alflives]

37 minutes ago, CanuckGAME said:

Didnt even read a single word in the OP.  

 

Benning said since day one of his hire he was going to build through the draft,  get younger and faster, inject as much skill as possible.

 

Hes done just that.  

 

How could anyone think what we have today is a fluke?

I guess one could say, since we weren’t winning the draft lottery and drafting outside the top 5 mostly, that it was lucky the teams drafting ahead of us the last three years didn’t pick: Petey, Hughes, and Podkolzin.  Plus, we got Brock at 23.  I don’t think JB is lucky picking those guys, but I can see that there was good fortune those players were still on the board when we picked.  

[coastal.view]

the premise of this thread is severely flawed

 

it seems to me that the choice being presented is

things are "flukish"

if some predetermined plan is not in place from the start and followed in great detail until the plan's outcome is achieved

(a very static or black and white view of the world)

 

if all that was required was a very thoughtful initial plan

aquaman could have paid for one

and had almost anyone implement it for him

cuz there would be no chance for "fluke" / deviation

 

but that is not life, it is very far from life

top executives are hired initially often based on their ability to relate a quality plan (their views)

or a willingness/ability to buy into a plan that is already on stream

however, the true skills that person brings is to deal/adjust to events that arise after (given nothing in life goes according to plan)

it is their flexibility, ability to think on their feet, ability to evolve with the times, display an innovative/creative outlook, have solid people skills, and other plan revising skills that person might bring to the table, is what makes them extremely valuable

they perform in this very messy theater we call life

and keep their work at the highest levels

(because the initial plan really is only the starting point, it is not the work)

 

so what is being portrayed as "fluke"

is an actual description of an executive starting with a plan and adjusting in real life

and ensuring that the overall work remains/maintains the highest of quality

 

so the rebuild is a combination of design and fluke (quality decisions made in life)

these things really are not so opposite as the poster believes

 

Edited June 23, 2019 by coastal.view

[IBatch]

The only luck that’s played into the rebuild is the lottery balls.  Once we slipped down and drafted OJ, he didn’t progress like we hoped, which affected our teams progression, and once because we slipped again, and didn’t win the lotto, otherwise Benning would have played the fool to pass on EP and not pick Hirschier or Patrick, and instead went with EP.   

 

Other then that I really don’t think they are bumbling along, rather have a solid business plan which they are working diligently on applying.   Hockey god karma sent us a gift in Podz again, I’d say with EP it pretty much evens things out for us, despite slipping a half dozen or more spots the last few years.  Benning and his new draft rules be damned.   

[Borvat]

Is the 90% response in favor of design over fluke by design or is it a fluke.  I think this thread was by design but the results are fluke.  As in the lottery is apparently fluke if it was by design then the lottery would be rigged.  So the design was dictated by fluke.  Sign me up for fluky design. 

[appleboy]

Their draft record for first round picks is 50%. Not counting this year. The so called rebuild , build on the fly or whatever is years behind where it could have been.

We are lucky to have landed Petey and Brock. Now they act like the rebuild is over. I think they are years away. We might make the playoffs once in a while over the next 5 years. That's all though.

Edited June 23, 2019 by appleboy

[kanucks25]

It's not a fluke that we're younger and have better prospects than when Benning took over. It's just natural.

 

It'd be extremely difficult for Benning to mess things up so bad that this wasn't the case.

 

A lot of the players Benning inherited are retired (or close to it) simply due to age, and our prospect/young player pool is better simply due to us being a tire-fire and picking high every year.

 

The main question is has Benning made enough shrewd moves to separate ourselves from the pack? So far the answer is is "no". Lots of teams tank, draft and develop, that doesn't automatically make them legit contenders 3-5 years down the road. Time will tell if that changes. Given how long Benning's already been on the job, he doesn't have much time left.

Edited June 23, 2019 by kanucks25