The Canucks fluke rebuid, and some how it's right on track

[appleboy]

8 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

It's not a fluke that we're younger and have better prospects than when Benning took over. It's just natural.

 

It'd be extremely difficult for Benning to mess things up so bad that this wasn't the case.

 

A lot of the players Benning inherited are retired (or close to it) simply due to age, and our prospect/young player pool is better simply due to us being a tire-fire and picking high every year.

 

The main question is has Benning made enough shrewd moves to separate ourselves from the pack? So far the answer is is "no". Lots of teams tank, draft and develop, that doesn't automatically make them legit contenders 3-5 years down the road. Time will tell if that changes. Given how long Benning's already been on the job, he doesn't have much time left.

The Oilers have two of the best centers in the league. Yet they are a true tire fire and I don't think we are that far ahead of them. As far as Benning not having much time left lets hope the new guy isn't worse. The devil you know is sometimes better then the one you don't. I honestly think Judd Bracket is the guy who has saved the drafting. The last 3 years he has taken on a much bigger role. This year is interesting, Pod  , Hog and Keppen have a lot of potential and everyone has a similar quality. "An engine that never quits".

This ownership has yet to turn the Org over to a competent experienced GM. They always hire rookies.

It is a shame Jake couldn't get his motor running.

[48MPHSlapShot]

3 hours ago, Where's Wellwood said:

Luck gave us Pettersson instead.

I think that's selling our scouting department a bit short. We had him well scouted. 

[kanucks25]

3 minutes ago, appleboy said:

The devil you know is sometimes better then the one you don't.

Aquilini should have thought of this before he fired the guy that would have brought us the Cup if it wasn't for crippling injuries.

[appleboy]

3 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

Aquilini should have thought of this before he fired the guy that would have brought us the Cup if it wasn't for crippling injuries.

As we have seen time and again injuries are part of the game. Every organization deals with it. They build depth into their farm systems. Our farm system has always been depleted and so there is never any help. Gillis sold everything that wasn't bolted down to try to win. Benning has not managed to build it back up. 

[Rush17]

First years plan was to compete and try to win one last time. Benning said as much. He later implied that was their go.

 

We let Matthias and Richardson walk to free agency for nothing to give the Sedins a chance. The next year we moved Bonino and forsling for Sutter.

 

Teams had adjusted to the play of the Sedins and Vrbara. In turn Vrbara got disgruntled because he felt he had developed chemistry with Bonino.

 

Later Bonino wins a cup and Vrbara leaves to free agency. Jim tried to move hamhuis but got hog tied by his NTC and possibly some lack of pre planning. 

 

I would say we tried that second season but it quickly became apparent we didn't have what we needed to challenge. Higgins was useless, Richardson was gone, Matthias was gone. 

 

Our roster was like stale bread that we left on the counter to long. Jim tried some pet projects with Linden Vey a Willie D special but I think that was more about seeing if he could be a long term piece. Clearly he wasn't and left 2 years later I believe if memory serves me right.

 

One thing I will say. The team has functioned much better since the arrival of John Weisbrod. It took another step forward with Trevor stepped aside and we could get a single message. Often Trevor was preaching the opposite of Jim's actions which lead to fans feeling we were being sold mix messages. 

 

I think that was a philosophy issue between the two. Linden wanted to find the best gm to run the team. I think he did just that but his perception of what should be was obviously not in allignment with Jim's.

 

I said 2-3 years I think... I would rather keep Jim as gm over Linden as Prez and I stand by that. The whole rebuild label was probably delayed because Linden didn't believe this market could handle a rebuild. So they dressed this team up and put a bow on it. 

 

The whole rebuild narrative eventually gave way because it was an impossible story to continue to sell. Linden came out saying it isn't a rebuild but u can call it that if u want. It was a retool on the fly lol.

 

Since it's been a rebuild, there is less mixed messages and we have a clear direction. Now Benning sees the light at the end of the tunnel thanks to the arrival of the core 5.

 

Now he is putting internal pressure on the players, the organization, and himself to be a good team once again. Which I find perfectly poetic as we enter what is our 50th year celebration! 

 

We want our players to be winners and setting high expectations at this stage is crucial. This is Jakes time to no longer be a kid. He needs to be a leader to the youth. Will see what happens. They really tried to sell the compete narrative for the pride of the veterans and development of Bo. 

 

But don't mistake that narrative with a clear desire to not go deep. If Jim wanted to win sooner he would have added younger players like jt Miller and Tyler Myers earlier. We are now entering our next phase of transitioning to becoming a winning franchise. That all started last year. Green now has the horses to make us a playoff team. 

 

I hope we add one more top 6 forward via trade to combo Miller and Myers. (Hopefully we get a D)

[fanfor42]

The one thing I admire most about Benning is his honesty.  Early on he got in hot water by being honest.  He has now learned what he can and can't say. But he has always been honest. 

I think his honesty is respected by other teams around the league. It certainly is respected by me.

[Arrow 1983]

1 hour ago, Rush17 said:

First years plan was to compete and try to win one last time. Benning said as much. He later implied that was their go.

 

We let Matthias and Richardson walk to free agency for nothing to give the Sedins a chance. The next year we moved Bonino and forsling for Sutter.

 

Teams had adjusted to the play of the Sedins and Vrbara. In turn Vrbara got disgruntled because he felt he had developed chemistry with Bonino.

 

Later Bonino wins a cup and Vrbara leaves to free agency. Jim tried to move hamhuis but got hog tied by his NTC and possibly some lack of pre planning. 

 

I would say we tried that second season but it quickly became apparent we didn't have what we needed to challenge. Higgins was useless, Richardson was gone, Matthias was gone. 

 

Our roster was like stale bread that we left on the counter to long. Jim tried some pet projects with Linden Vey a Willie D special but I think that was more about seeing if he could be a long term piece. Clearly he wasn't and left 2 years later I believe if memory serves me right.

 

One thing I will say. The team has functioned much better since the arrival of John Weisbrod. It took another step forward with Trevor stepped aside and we could get a single message. Often Trevor was preaching the opposite of Jim's actions which lead to fans feeling we were being sold mix messages. 

 

I think that was a philosophy issue between the two. Linden wanted to find the best gm to run the team. I think he did just that but his perception of what should be was obviously not in allignment with Jim's.

 

I said 2-3 years I think... I would rather keep Jim as gm over Linden as Prez and I stand by that. The whole rebuild label was probably delayed because Linden didn't believe this market could handle a rebuild. So they dressed this team up and put a bow on it. 

 

The whole rebuild narrative eventually gave way because it was an impossible story to continue to sell. Linden came out saying it isn't a rebuild but u can call it that if u want. It was a retool on the fly lol.

 

Since it's been a rebuild, there is less mixed messages and we have a clear direction. Now Benning sees the light at the end of the tunnel thanks to the arrival of the core 5.

 

Now he is putting internal pressure on the players, the organization, and himself to be a good team once again. Which I find perfectly poetic as we enter what is our 50th year celebration! 

 

We want our players to be winners and setting high expectations at this stage is crucial. This is Jakes time to no longer be a kid. He needs to be a leader to the youth. Will see what happens. They really tried to sell the compete narrative for the pride of the veterans and development of Bo. 

 

But don't mistake that narrative with a clear desire to not go deep. If Jim wanted to win sooner he would have added younger players like jt Miller and Tyler Myers earlier. We are now entering our next phase of transitioning to becoming a winning franchise. That all started last year. Green now has the horses to make us a playoff team. 

 

I hope we add one more top 6 forward via trade to combo Miller and Myers. (Hopefully we get a D)

Thanks for the thought out post It is more an elaboration of what I was saying

[189lb enforcers?]

The Accidental Tank was blamed on the injury excuse and will continue to be. 

 

If anyone thinks any of the past few years went as planned, that’s kind of funny. 

 

Nothing about the moves and non moves that went into us picking 5th OA and having the luxury of selecting franchise-saving EP, was by design. We can start there. Ryan Miller, RV, LE, Guddy... sure... it was all to be the most expensive rebuild in history, on purpose. Funny. 

[Arrow 1983]

After JB  aquires a a defenceman or 2 it will come down to the players themselves to show what they have. If they don't have what it takes JB and his team will have to make further changes. Being proactive from this point on is what will keep us from becoming another Edm. If at any point ownership believes he is not being proactive that is the only time this team should consider firing JB and not any sooner than that. Change for the sake of change never solves problems. Change to a clear problem solved problems. JB is not a problem.

[Arrow 1983]

1 minute ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

The Accidental Tank was blamed on the injury excuse and will continue to be. 

 

If anyone thinks any of the past few years went as planned, that’s kind of funny. 

 

Nothing about the moves and non moves that went into us picking 5th OA and having the luxury of selecting franchise-saving EP, was by design. We can start there. Ryan Miller, RV, LE, Guddy... sure... it was all to be the most expensive rebuild in history, on purpose. Funny. 

As I concluded it was a plan by design and some times plans have luck. Furthermore, if you are picking between 1-10, 4-5 times the luck or odds are in one's favour of landing good players on your team. Luck or odds if you want to call it is integrated in the design.

[CanadianRugby]

6 hours ago, Arrow 1983 said:

For those who want to fire JB ask yourself is their anyone else you would trust or the Canucks could hire to Draft guys in the later half of the 1st round or in the later rounds. 

You do realize that outside the first part of the 1st round.  It's the scouts drafting and not the GM right? 

[Arrow 1983]

33 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said:

You do realize that outside the first part of the 1st round.  It's the scouts drafting and not the GM right? 

I would agree with you when it comes to most GMs but when it comes to JB he knows the players just as well or almost just as much as his scouts do it's what makes him good at this part of his job. I think we have all heard the stories of how JB goes around as well and scouts guys my guess is he asks his scouts who they like and checks them out himself. Just my guess not saying I know this for sure.

 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Arrow 1983 said:

I would agree with you when it comes to most GMs but when it comes to JB he knows the players just as well or almost just as much as his scouts do it's what makes him good at this part of his job. I think we have all heard the stories of how JB goes around as well and scouts guys my guess is he asks his scouts who they like and checks them out himself. Just my guess not saying I know this for sure.

 

Gillis was a player agent.  JB was a hockey guy, scout, and assistant GM responsible for the draft.  I agree with you that JB gets his eyes on as many players as he can.  

[Arrow 1983]

Just now, Alflives said:

Gillis was a player agent.  JB was a hockey guy, scout, and assistant GM responsible for the draft.  I agree with you that JB gets his eyes on as many players as he can.  

I would say this is exactly why Gillis was great at contract negotiates he already had a very good idea what players where worth.  

[Crabcakes]

42 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said:

You do realize that outside the first part of the 1st round.  It's the scouts drafting and not the GM right? 

It's true but there is more to it than that.  The GM is responsible for the scouting department.  He hires the scouts, promotes the lead and he makes sure they are operating as a team with the same standards and goals.  They are drafting the players who will become a team so there's more to it than just picking guys with good stats.

 

The GM is in charge of the show but he has to delegate the work to the right guys