ItTakesAnArmy Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 26 minutes ago, Baggins said: Well Benning could have gone with Shinkaruk, Jansen, Gaunce, and Corrado. It would have been so much more successful. I find it funny they wanted Benning to intentionally tank the team, yet are angry the team hasn't been successsful the past four years. I suppose it's because it's just not bad the way they wanted it to be bad. I take it you mean some fans. It isn't so much the losing as it was losing while trying their best to win and if they had gone with the line up you mentioned it is a good chance they would have gotten McDavid, Mathews, Eichel or Laine, maybe even two of them. But none of Benning's moves suggest he was trying to tank, they all appear on the surface to indicate an attempt to make a playoff appearance again. The owner's know that having superstar players add to the value of the team just having them under contract and they know the only place they come from is the draft. Last time "the army" put up such a backlash that guards had to be hired to protect kids so there was a distancing from running the team. The thing now is that he is selling out the future two ways, moving future draft picks, very, very good ones and compromising the team's cap for the years where having more cap space could be crucial. Just look at projected FA's in the next 2 to 4 years. Again an unproven statement about the fantastic prospect pool but the talk is only about the last two drafts what about the other three? Always talk but never any info on how good these guys are doing vs AHL quality players. In their draft years they were already the better players in the draft class so they better be a lot better being the oldest in the same league the next year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItTakesAnArmy Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 (edited) Arizona just got much much better and they were already ahead of the Canucks. What does Benning do now? All these other teams have sooo many more assets to offer up from even a late as 2016/2017. The Yotes trade a past 1rst round pick acquired in a cap dump trade, they didn't even have the money to do that but sure got a benefit for doing it. Vegas odds are .......but what the hell do they know they only make millions of dollars on betting and being wrong all the time, ya right. Edited June 30, 2019 by ItTakesAnArmy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, ItTakesAnArmy said: I take it you mean some fans. It isn't so much the losing as it was losing while trying their best to win and if they had gone with the line up you mentioned it is a good chance they would have gotten McDavid, Mathews, Eichel or Laine, maybe even two of them. And you know what we would have had? Two of them with the entire remaining team needing to be replaced. Wasting years of their talent while trying to build a team around them. This has been Edmontons issue for over a decade. So many top picks, nothing to go with them. I think Benning has gone about it the right way. 7 minutes ago, ItTakesAnArmy said: But none of Benning's moves suggest he was trying to tank, they all appear on the surface to indicate an attempt to make a playoff appearance again. He wasn't trying to tank. Imo you should never try to lose. Give your team the best chance you can and let the chips fall where they may. As our rebuild progressed it would get more difficult as we moved veterans out. And with no prospect pool left by Gillis injuries would be covered by call ups that weren't worthy of the NHL. Making injuries tough to overcome without a multitude of them. That too would get worse before it got better. Ultimately we've got our two stars, Boeser and Petey. So the cups should come rolling in in no time, right? Because that's all it takes - two stars. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, ItTakesAnArmy said: Arizona just got much much better and they were already ahead of the Canucks. What does Benning do now? All these other teams have sooo many more assets to offer up from even a late as 2016/2017. The Yotes trade a past 1rst round pick acquired in a cap dump trade, they didn't even have the money to do that but sure got a benefit for doing it. Vegas odds are .......but what the hell do they know they only make millions of dollars on betting and being wrong all the time, ya right. Heard that said about the Oilers every one of the past five years. Didn't we just finish higher in the standings than them this last season? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItTakesAnArmy Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Baggins said: Heard that said about the Oilers every one of the past five years. Didn't we just finish higher in the standings than them this last season? Goes to show what bad goal tending can do that and leaning on young core players to carry the load. All Edmonton's 1rst picks played in the NHL, most had decent careers. Look at what Burke and Keenan did for the Sedins, he traded for a first line, Naslund, Bertuzzi and Morrison, the west coast express, the Sedins had years under them so the pressure to win wasn't all on their shoulders like it is on Horvat's, Boeser's or Pettersson. Same can be said of Edmonton and Buffalo, all the pressure is on the shoulders of their young cores. After seeing these other team's struggles you would think there is a lesson there to be learned and not repeated but .....apparently this has never ever ever happened before. Edited June 30, 2019 by ItTakesAnArmy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 Almost 90% are for his management. The people have spoken! Yet why is the vocal minority always the loudest? 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 30 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Almost 90% are for his management. The people have spoken! Yet why is the vocal minority always the loudest? 'Cause the silent maority is always...well, you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucklehead80 Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 2 hours ago, Baggins said: Well Benning could have gone with Shinkaruk, Jansen, Gaunce, and Corrado. It would have been so much more successful. I find it funny they wanted Benning to intentionally tank the team, yet are angry the team hasn't been successsful the past four years. I suppose it's because it's just not bad the way they wanted it to be bad. Yeah, got a guy at work that always wants them to tank. Then they suck and he’s mad because they suck. Then they win and he’s upset because it’s hurting their lottery chances. Then they try and do something to improve the team and he’s mad because they should be tanking. Some people just can’t be appeased. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucklehead80 Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 46 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Almost 90% are for his management. The people have spoken! Yet why is the vocal minority always the loudest? Always the few that scream the loudest. The ones that are content/supportive usually don’t feel the need to speak up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, ItTakesAnArmy said: Goes to show what bad goal tending can do that and leaning on young core players to carry the load. All Edmonton's 1rst picks played in the NHL, most had decent careers. Look at what Burke and Keenan did for the Sedins, he traded for a first line, Naslund, Bertuzzi and Morrison, the west coast express, the Sedins had years under them so the pressure to win wasn't all on their shoulders like it is on Horvat's, Boeser's or Pettersson. Same can be said of Edmonton and Buffalo, all the pressure is on the shoulders of their young cores. After seeing these other team's struggles you would think there is a lesson there to be learned and not repeated but .....apparently this has never ever ever happened before. It's not letting young high end talent take the lead. It's not having other talent on the team for the team to have success. TO's high end talent turned the Leafs fortunes around pretty quick. But they didn't have a smoldering dung heap behind them like Edmonton and Buffalo. Just as Toews and Kane wouldn't have turned Chicago around so quickly without all those supporting pieces they already in place, and prospects already in the pipeline. Toews and Kane only supplied the high end talent for that next step. Btw, Keenan was gone before the Sedins ever stepped on NHL ice. The WCE was a bonafide top line and up to the lockout many here considered the Sedins a 2nd line bust that would never be first line material. They weren't players that stepped in and wowed anybody. Not like Boeser and Petey did. We just need to surround them faster than the WCE and Sedins to have a decent window of opportunity. The biggest difference is Bert and Nazzy took time to become stars, as did the Sedins. Boeser and Petey stepped in as stars and will have a much bigger window to surround them. Imo opinion we're well on our way to doing that. Honestly, I think we're already ahead of Edmonton. Edit: Btw, Arizona doesn't worry me at all. They go in waves. Get talent and get better. Followed by their money issues getting in the way and needing to move salary. It's been an endless cycle for them. Edited June 30, 2019 by Baggins 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman64 Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 On 6/28/2019 at 7:44 PM, The 5th Line said: You countered his argument with zero factual evidence. Literally all you did was call someone a "fool" for not agreeing with you, even though you provided absolutely nothing for anyone to even agree upon. 2/10 It made no sense to you bc you cant get your head around the fact if our deals had of worked out as planned, we'd be in the playoffs. Take LE for instance, the whole league, fans.. thought that would be a killer line, and it should have been. There was no one who thought otherwise yet look what happened, could any GM in the league known? No... any other GM would have done that deal, Guddy for toughness was another one, he was playing ok there... Vey was insanely lighting it up but failed to be Bure 2.0... why? Who knows but a team looking for scoring that would have perfect but JB made these moves to try and make the crappy team he took over better, and it is but no one could have known those things would happen but if you blame JB for trying to improve us before we had a fairly clean slate of players with no clauses to work with, if you think you can look ahead and know all of that before it happens then i'd ask you to do GM with your fortune telling skills that no one else has.... 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bree2 Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 you, Sir Iceman64 have made the most sense on here, I commend you!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush17 Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 (edited) I find the media and a portion of the fanbase jumps on the Jim Benning is an incompetent GM bandwagon. It is very frustrating and largely dominates the radio waves in Vancouver. I love that we are much more upbeat and show some appreciation for him. It feels like there is a campaign to discredit and bring him down to his knees. It is disgusting and extremely frustrating. I feel bad for the guy because he is ruthlessly attacked by some people in this market. 1040 is brutal when talking about Jim. We almost need a news article talking about this - I'm worried some of the old canucks fans coming back are going to jump on this "Benning is an idiot" bandwagon. Last thing we need is bandwagoners tipping over the apple cart when Jim is doing a fantastic job at accumulating young talent. Edit: Not all old fans coming are bandwagoners of course. but you know what I mean. hate to see Benning's tenure cut short due to arrogancence. Maybe our chants on fire Gillis have given members of this media the feeling they can walk all over new GM (Jim). I know he isn't the best talker but he is phenomenal at 75% of the job he does. Guy deserves a break and some appreciation. Edited June 30, 2019 by Rush17 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianRugby Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 22 hours ago, Tomatoes11 said: listen to this and it sums up Benning and trades and signings quite thoroughly. Agree with Ray as usual. The guys in Toronto though. Jesus. Are two of them just texting the whole time? Jamie Maclennan seems to not know anything unless they're talking Eastern Conference. 19 hours ago, spook007 said: Are you in for or against JB's drafting....? And the trade for Miller suggests Benning are trying to give EP and Boeser a good player to play with, no? All the expensive third and forth liners you mentioned, are they holding back Bennings ability to pay EP, Boeser or QH? By the time EP and QH's next contracts are to be signed, a mix of Sutter, Baertschi, Pearson, Spooner, Leivo, Schaller, Hutton, Edler, Tanev and god knows who else will be off the books, with Rousell and Beagle the year after... Of these Beartschi and Pearson does score at decent second line pace... Hopefully a few of the young players from the system will be pushing for a starting slot at that time.... So which expensive 3rd and 4th lines are going to hold Benning back from signing them? Luongos 3 mill cap penalty was a spanner in the wheel, and could be an issue, but this was hardly the fault of Benning... Its Benning faultless...far from it. But at least Aquilinis seems to understand where the team is heading. And thankfully they are in charge. If nothing has improved in 2 years time I can see a change, but for now I see no reason to change anything. If you're paying a ton of $ to your bottom six, you'd think that your top six would also now expect to be paid a ton. I guess we'll see when Boeser resigns. Good luck building depth if you're overpaying everyone. It's funny you say "Is Benning faultless...far from it." Because whenever someone brings up a fault, you defend him. It's like CDC has a "he has faults but don't you dare mention any faults" syndrome. In Benning we trust, and all that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spur1 Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 4 hours ago, ItTakesAnArmy said: I take it you mean some fans. It isn't so much the losing as it was losing while trying their best to win and if they had gone with the line up you mentioned it is a good chance they would have gotten McDavid, Mathews, Eichel or Laine, maybe even two of them. But none of Benning's moves suggest he was trying to tank, they all appear on the surface to indicate an attempt to make a playoff appearance again. The owner's know that having superstar players add to the value of the team just having them under contract and they know the only place they come from is the draft. Last time "the army" put up such a backlash that guards had to be hired to protect kids so there was a distancing from running the team. The thing now is that he is selling out the future two ways, moving future draft picks, very, very good ones and compromising the team's cap for the years where having more cap space could be crucial. Just look at projected FA's in the next 2 to 4 years. Again an unproven statement about the fantastic prospect pool but the talk is only about the last two drafts what about the other three? Always talk but never any info on how good these guys are doing vs AHL quality players. In their draft years they were already the better players in the draft class so they better be a lot better being the oldest in the same league the next year. Yup just JB doing his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spur1 Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 3 hours ago, DeNiro said: Almost 90% are for his management. The people have spoken! Yet why is the vocal minority always the loudest? Because they are so busy chirping and crapping. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Am.Ironman Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, Josepho said: One serious flaw in your argument is that you're overlooking is the fact that we simply had the option to not sign these players and we had the option to fill our roster with guys in our own system like Archibald or Gaunce. Or we can look around the league for multiple examples of comparable players who weren't given obnoxious contracts. I know what's the worst that could happen if we were to go down that road. I wouldn't say they're inconsequential because we could've been taking assets from other teams in exchange for taking on poor contracts from other teams. I pointed out that Carolina has done this multiple times, acquiring Teravainen and a 1st round pick collectively for taking on the salary of Patrick Marleau and Bryan Bickell. You can look around the league for numerous examples of teams actually getting their players to waive their NMC/NTCs. Not missing the playoffs with a stale core in and of itself is not the problem. The problem is that he's consistently brought in the wrong players who haven't helped with anything for this team -- it's highly questionable pro-scouting. Here is literally every defenceman who Benning has brought in through trade or free agency. - Luca Sbisa - Andrey Pedan - Adam Clendening - Philip Larsen - Erik Gudbranson - Derrick Pouliot - Matt Bartkowski - Michael Del Zotto - Troy Stecher The majority of these players aren't even regularly playing in the NHL anymore and the only one I'd classify as decent is Stecher -- a college free agent from the area who most likely was very interested in playing here. I don't think it does -- it's impossible to build a team solely through the draft. You have to surround your core with the proper talent. Drafting is primarily a team effort -- that's why the scouts have as many meetings as they do. Furthermore, how do you feel about the Virtanen and Juolevi selections considering who was available? My argument is flawed but you suggest we could have filled our roster with Archibald and Gaunce? Gaunce is a fringe 13th forward and Archy belongs in the AHL. Those 2 guys don't belong anywhere near the 3rd line. Now I am not saying that JB has nailed free agency because he hasn't but he needed to do something via free agency and the canucks were not a desirable place to play. Carolina did well with those deals. I wouldn't have loved to get Teravainen but the fact of the matter is that Chicago would have never given that deal to us... our rivals at the time and within the same conference. I would have loved to take Marleau as well. Did JB miss an opportunity there? Maybe, but then so did the Avs, Stars, Panthers and Devils. All have the cap space and the room. I don't disagree that the pro scouting needs to have a better track record moving forward. Hopefully Pearson, JT Miller and Myers (if it happens) buck the trend in the other direction. The Gudbranson trade I'll admit was a mistake. But that may workout if Pearson continues to produce as a top 6 winger. But again he needed to try something on D that wouldn't mortgage the future/cost assets. THose guys did not work out (save Stecher) but they didn't cost us anything meaninful other than money. Would you have liked to fill those spots with all those D prospects we had ready to make the big club? Don't forget our best D prospects at the time were Frank Corrado and Jordan Subban. Edit: re Virtanen and Juolevi. In short, the jury is still out and hindsight is 20/20. We will see how Willie Nylander does this season but it was a rough go for him after signing for 7x7. Hayden Fleury has done nothing while living in the AHL and Ehlers has done pretty well, but again he is getting 6M a year I think. Nick Ritchie has done nothing of significance. Dal Colle, who was taken before Virtanen has done nothing. So really? I take Ehlers then Virtanen (making 1.5M I think?). Does Nylander live up to his 7M/season? Maybe or maybe not. The BPA on the board for the VIrtanen pick was either Larkin or Pasternak who were picked 10 and 20 picks after Virtanen, respectively. VIrtanen is great value for what he provides and what he gets paid. He has also improved every year. I think he was 4th or 5th in goals last year on the Canucks. Tkatchuk would have been a great pick but we desperately needed D prospects at the time. You never know how the Tkatchuk interview went either. THere were rumours that he didn't want to play for us, which if that was the case I don't want him either. Juolevi had a rough go with injuries this year but he also killed it in Finland and was around 0.7ppg in the AHL before getting hurt. Those are good numbers. He would have been in the NHL this year if not for the knee injury. There are plenty of valid and well represented arguments in the Juolevi thread that go into more detail. Edited June 30, 2019 by I.Am.Ironman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomatoes11 Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 Tampabay is an off-season winner. Lol that shows you just how bad that trade was. Ridiculous how people can defend him.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomatoes11 Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 (edited) On 6/29/2019 at 12:04 PM, cuporbust said: He was supposed to be able to predict he would lose Sven to a head hit and post concussion syndrome? Markstrom would get injured in the skills competition? Virtanen would fracture a rib ? Stetcher to a concussion? Roussel to a freak knee injury? Common man. U are blaming Benning as if he should have seen these injuries coming ? No, you are supposed to predict Sven isn’t going to contribute to a cup win and Calgary is dumping him for Mason Raymond for a reason. A smart gm would gamble on the 2nd if the player has no bearing whatsoever on you achieving your goal, which is a cup. If they are both unlikely to help get you a cup, go for the longer term project, which is the pick. But we all know a second had a chance to be Keith or oreilly and baerschit had ZERO chance so the pick is the superior choice anyways even if Baerschit wasn’t injury prone. We need to play the odds if we ever want to win a cup. Odds of Baerschit amounting to Boeser or EP was zero. Odds of the 2nd becoming something like Keith or Oreilly is low, but it’s still there at least. Edited June 30, 2019 by Tomatoes11 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 Dim Benning sucks and i can't wait till our club gets a competent GM to run the club... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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