[Poll] Jim Benning

[Ghostsof1915]

1 hour ago, Timråfan said:

I was quite surprised when a whole thread is made talking about "Benning deserves better" as a clear majority defends him in absurdum. At least on this forum. Even in areas where his management isn't so good. 

 

I can't vote either because I know too little about him. He seems to be good at scouting and listens to the people scouting for him. 

 

So wait? You can slam Green, but you state you know little about Benning? 

[Timråfan]

6 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

So wait? You can slam Green, but you state you know little about Benning? 

Please, inform me what I slam Grenn and Benning about... Regarding Benning, i don't know how to value the trades he's done and what he started with. So I can't judge him on those areas. I can only judge what I see for myself. What other people say is their opinion based on their knowledge and abilities. 

[Roger Neilsons Towel]

@Arrow 1983 120 to 9 in favour of the Benning  regime this morning. 

 

So far the vocal minority theory pans out. 

[smithers joe]

JB isn’t perfect, but to fully judge his work, i’ld need to have the work other GM’s over a 5 year period. i’ld have to know how many bad trades, bad contracts and good drafting they’ve done. then i could judge properly the over all job he has done. 

imo, FA is putting pressure on him to make the play offs now.  so, because we have to pay more to get players here in free agency, more mistakes can be made.  they say that FA is negotiating with myers. if JB is a lame duck GM, how much blame goes to him for a bad signing?

[Jester13]

5 hours ago, Tomatoes11 said:

Lol at this Arrow guy..... 

 

Spin it all you want, but facts are none of the trades Benning made helped our team. ZERO. In FIVE years.

 

I am not a prophet but I am pretty confident that AT LEAST one of those picks, probably a few, would help our team a lot more than ZERO. 

 

And no, we wouldn’t have picked the same players those teams drafted so stop trying to break them down and look at the big picture.

 

Which is trades. 0 meaning ZERO value.

 

Draft picks we will assign an X value since we will never know the true value. But if Benning is as good at drafting as you apologists claim X is definitely much greater than 0.

 

Jeez. Sorry I can’t stop laughing at how much spinning this Arrow guy is doing. Lol. It’s almost as bad as Benning’s wheel spinning for 5 years.

You're the epitome of the Benning haters due to your ridiculous narrative about us missing the playoffs five years in a row. Basically everyone knows we've been rebuilding all that time, so of course we missed the playoffs, but, no, not you - you use that fact as your premise for why Benning & Co suck and should be fired. 

 

When you have a faulty premise, you'll have a faulty conclusion. This is the crux of where you and the Benning haters go wrong. 

[Boudrias]

2 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

You're the epitome of the Benning haters due to your ridiculous narrative about us missing the playoffs five years in a row. Basically everyone knows we've been rebuilding all that time, so of course we missed the playoffs, but, no, not you - you use that fact as your premise for why Benning & Co suck and should be fired. 

 

When you have a faulty premise, you'll have a faulty conclusion. This is the crux of where you and the Benning haters go wrong. 

IMHO most Benning critics spend little time reviewing where he and Linden started from when they came in. Stating that the 'cupboard was bare' is a massive understatement. Fans accept that idea but then ignore the ramifications. Fans accept that Benning and his scouting team have done a better than average job of drafting and then ignore the time it takes for those prospects to impact the team. Fans are excited about Boeser and EP40's burst onto the scene but then expect all the picks to do the same. Heaven help us if Hughes isn't rookie of the year! 

 

I all my years of watching the Canucks I have never seen a management group who have pursued a full rebuild let alone stuck to a plan to see it actually happen. Since I have never sat in on a meeting with Benning and his group I can only guess, like everyone else, how they are dealing with the many variables that developing this group throws at them. Many human factors force adjustments in plans. At the end of the day my impression of Benning is that he has high regard in the hockey world. He will have to really screw up for me to question his effort.  

[smithers joe]

7 hours ago, Arrow 1983 said:

Derek dorsett for keegon Iverson. Wow Iverson is just lighting things up in the nhl nope not one game played

But of course Benning should have known Derek was going to get hurt

derek was a war horse for us. we needed more players like him. that was a good pick up. benjie made a mistake with gudbranson, but our d-men were getting man handled. guddy played tough in florida so JB took a chance. he recovered that by getting pearson. by early play, he looks like a good fit with bo. baertschi was a first round pick that they felt was given a good chance with calgary. sven started playing good hockey before the concussion problems. it was still a good pick up. the trades haven’t worked out yet of burrows and the swiss army knife but neither of them are still playing, while goldie is and the other kid is still young.  i don’t know how miller will do here but we have finding out to look forward to. 

vey didn’t work out but he was carrying a lot of baggage as we all know. he had a very good junior career, so it was worth a shot. 

it is easy for us in hindsight to point out his flaws, but every gm has those.

 

[Shekky]

I'm for Benning his trades haven't been the greatest but his drafting has been excellent. I feel he has been a little too careful with trading in some ways one Tanev would have been a good trading option a few years ago and I was for and against trading Tanev back then looking back now I wish they had traded him when his value was at its highest if the rumours of Benning actively shopping Tanev are true. It also seems like defence wins Stanley cups so loading up on defence should be the priority as they are the hardest to develop and acquire. Unfortunately the defence on paper doesn't look very solid. I imagine Benning is looking for help in that area. He also hasn't made the best of FA Signings but at the time they all looked good at first but only time has proven that this is not the case not Benning's fault at this point because Eriksson was playing well before and even showed he would be a capable linemate at the World Cup of Hockey playing with the Sedin's. My biggest issue with the defence though is when someone gets injured there is not much backup there. I like to be the observer more then complain or make proposals I save all my trading,drafting,FA Signings for NHL 19 and soon to be 20

 

Edler  Myers or Tanev

Hughes Schenn

Joulevi Stecher 

 

extra defence

Brisebois, Tryamkin (1 year away), Sautner, Teves

[IBatch]

Wow...that’s even more support then I thought there was...I suspect a few hater s have multiple accounts to make things appear worse then they are as far as his support goes, if anything just to have  somebody to agree with, even if it’s just really themselves ha ha.  

 

Whatever happened to the Gaurdian on that note?  I actually didn’t mind his posts, someone should play the devils advocate and sometimes his stuff was even bag on.     Rather read those posts then the vegatable of the fruit classes one’s, they grow tiresome with the same thing over and over again about picks etc.  

 

Benning seems to have overwhrl

 support to a portion of the more invested and likely informed fans out there (us), wish the media would just cut out their campaign to make things a bigger deal then they often are.

[smithers joe]

lots of opinions here, for and against, but did anyone's opinion change another’s opinion? i think not. the only one that can change any of our opinions, is benning himself. he can still change the pro’s to con’s but i doubt he will ever be able to change the cons to pro’s. such is the hockey world.  those who can, do; those who can’t criticize those who can. 

 

[vannuck59]

Benning Is Ok , could be worse. he reminds me of a old hillbilly not a slickster GM . Too honest too strait forward  and I like that but is he the right fit for our club? Keep rebuilding and trading Jim . hopefully we get there sooner then later. 50 years and counting 

[Hairy Kneel]

voted for  but I want JB to look and learn from his mistakes

 

on a side note I think Podz is the equivalent return of our MT  pick and then some 

can't wait for Podz to get here

 

I like drafting all forwards this run, our scoring and compete levels have been lacking, time to heat up the inner competition for spots

(but if I see Eriksson floating around with his 3 hits again it'll be discouraging)

 

[HorvatToBaertschi]

10 hours ago, kingofsurrey said:

Great results....

 

2015–16	82	31	38	13	75	191	243	6th, Pacific	Did not qualify
2016–17	82	30	43	9	69	182	243	7th, Pacific	Did not qualify
2017–18	82	31	40	11	73	218	264	7th, Pacific	Did not qualify
2018–19	82	35	36	11	81	225	254	5th, Pacific	Did not qualify

Pettersson, Boeser, Hughes, Podkolzin, Juolevi, Virtanen, Tryamkin, Demko, DiPietro, Lockwood, Madden, Woo, Rathbone, MacEwen, Stecher, Baertschi, Miller, Leivo, Pearson, Goldobin, Karlsson...

FANTASTIC results. The playoffs will be coming real soon don't you worry about that.

[Tre Mac]

Against.  He's a good scout, no question, but not organized enough to handle the GM role especially without a president.  Example was not doing anything to improve the blue line (he was a defenseman too) last year and now he's desperate to overpay to correct that.  I don't mind trading that first round pick but use it to fill your most glaring need, forward was not a need.  His pro level scouting has been quite frankly atrocious, from over valuing Sutter(foundational piece?) to Gudbranson, I cringe everytime I hear the Nucks have made a trade.  His strategy to bring in other teams prospects that are supposedly farther ahead has been a failure, why do you think other teams are willing to part with these players in the first place?  

 

The only defense I'll give Benning is the dysfunctional ownership he has to deal with on a daily basis.  Based off what Brian Burke and Mike Gillis have implied, this team is in serious trouble with their meddling and unclear vision.  

[kingofsurrey]

36 minutes ago, smithers joe said:

lots of opinions here, for and against, but did anyone's opinion change another’s opinion? i think not. the only one that can change any of our opinions, is benning himself. he can still change the pro’s to con’s but i doubt he will ever be able to change the cons to pro’s. such is the hockey world.  those who can, do; those who can’t criticize those who can. 

 

If JB wants to win over a few of the dissenters.....  I would recommend that he starts to assemble a full collection of NHL calibre Defensemen for our club. 

[Darius]

2 hours ago, Boudrias said:

IMHO most Benning critics spend little time reviewing where he and Linden started from when they came in. Stating that the 'cupboard was bare' is a massive understatement. Fans accept that idea but then ignore the ramifications. Fans accept that Benning and his scouting team have done a better than average job of drafting and then ignore the time it takes for those prospects to impact the team. Fans are excited about Boeser and EP40's burst onto the scene but then expect all the picks to do the same. Heaven help us if Hughes isn't rookie of the year! 

 

I all my years of watching the Canucks I have never seen a management group who have pursued a full rebuild let alone stuck to a plan to see it actually happen. Since I have never sat in on a meeting with Benning and his group I can only guess, like everyone else, how they are dealing with the many variables that developing this group throws at them. Many human factors force adjustments in plans. At the end of the day my impression of Benning is that he has high regard in the hockey world. He will have to really screw up for me to question his effort.  

After reading through several posts in several threads that stink of myopic HF-BOARD-itis, this was a breath of fresh air.

 

A few years back I remember one of the prominent prospect 'experts' on the radio saying he expected the Canucks would take several years to turn their fortunes around in light of the horrible state of the prospect pool.

 

I look at it this way - even if the challenging contracts of every vet were erased in 2014 and they sold everyone off for picks, and every pick took an average trajectory to develop it would have taken 5 years to turn that mess around.

 

Benning has made some bad mistakes, but he had a very challenging situation to deal with.

 

 

Edited June 26, 2019 by Darius

[PhillipBlunt]

11 hours ago, coastal.view said:

so you feel it is important to create 2 distinct camps

those for and those against jb ?

that has value to you ?

You are either with us, or against us. There is no middle ground.

[EP Phone Home]

3 hours ago, smithers joe said:

JB isn’t perfect, but to fully judge his work, i’ld need to have the work other GM’s over a 5 year period. i’ld have to know how many bad trades, bad contracts and good drafting they’ve done. then i could judge properly the over all job he has done. 

imo, FA is putting pressure on him to make the play offs now.  so, because we have to pay more to get players here in free agency, more mistakes can be made.  they say that FA is negotiating with myers. if JB is a lame duck GM, how much blame goes to him for a bad signing?

Exactly, I will go on record that I am pro Benning, but I’m not pro AF. I don’t blame Jim at all for the the Miller trade and spending our future cap structure this off season. He is trying to keep his job and keep his boss happy. That being said, I don’t think it was up to him to trade futures for immediate help. No question we have built up our forward corps and our crease is as deep as it’s ever been with three potential starting goalies in Marky,Demko and MDP. But we just don’t have the depth on defense to compete for a cup, and spending it in free agency will cause problems in the future to add more pieces once our core

hits their prime and needs their deserved raises. I love our scouting staff and I hope they continue to build up our blueline, but we aren’t there yet but ownership thinks otherwise. I really hope Jim and Judd stick around and finish their blueprint on this team. Not to be rushed and pushed out by impatient ownership. The goal for us fans is to witness this team hoist that elusive cup, I’m all for doing it the right way. We must be patient a little longer rather then being irrational with “just making the playoffs” I hope that I am wrong and we have enough horses in the stable to win the horse race, we will see if we cut corners or making the right moves at the right time. Again I am pro Benning but ownership needs to lay off the meddling of fast tracking this rebuild. Cheers and Go Canucks Go!

Edited June 26, 2019 by EP Phone Home

[IBatch]

34 minutes ago, Tre Mac said:

Against.  He's a good scout, no question, but not organized enough to handle the GM role especially without a president.  Example was not doing anything to improve the blue line (he was a defenseman too) last year and now he's desperate to overpay to correct that.  I don't mind trading that first round pick but use it to fill your most glaring need, forward was not a need.  His pro level scouting has been quite frankly atrocious, from over valuing Sutter(foundational piece?) to Gudbranson, I cringe everytime I hear the Nucks have made a trade.  His strategy to bring in other teams prospects that are supposedly farther ahead has been a failure, why do you think other teams are willing to part with these players in the first place?  

 

The only defense I'll give Benning is the dysfunctional ownership he has to deal with on a daily basis.  Based off what Brian Burke and Mike Gillis have implied, this team is in serious trouble with their meddling and unclear vision.  

If you take what he did the first three years and start at when he traded Burrows, Hansen and Beiksa...re-tool over rebuild starting how would you grade him then?  

 

Id say the meddling was pretty clear at the start, re-tool was his only option to get the job in the first place is my guess. And he made lemonade out of lemons, secretly building a pool despite this mandate...33-of 34 picks and some of them higher etc.  He never went all-in.

 

That is forgivable.

 

We’ve never done a rebuild like this one before, as far as ownership goes at least the didn’t fire him and bring in a new guy who would start a scorched earth rebuild and put us back another five years (yet, also my biggest fear).  This team isn’t cluttered with clauses like it used to be so it’s possible.    

 

Rebuilds take time.  Ours officially started three years ago and look where we are today.  On the cusp of getting back into the playoffs...

 

He has one more area to address and he’s been working his tail off to get it done.  Free Agency talks are opening, would love to be a fly on the wall to see who’s going where and which guys Bennings targeting, if expect there will be a few and on July 1 the metamorphosis will start.   If our left side 3rd is better then Hutton that’s a huge improvement compared to the start of last year (Hutton plus Pouilet).   Even a vet like McAuaid would change the look and experience of our RHD a lot.  

 

Rumours are 6-7 different roster players to start next year...so far we have Miller and Hughes pencilled in...wonder where the rest is coming from...

[kanucks25]

11 hours ago, Arrow 1983 said:

First you cherry picked the last 4 years to make your stats look better we made the Playoffs in the 2014-15

Second is this a by product of what JB did or what he inherited. 

Third would you not agree that that forth year shows improvement and is the first true year of JB work coming to fruition.

Fruition: the point at which a plan or project is realized. 

1. You mention 2014-15 which was mostly the team he inherited, that's why they made the playoffs.

2. You say the losing is a byproduct of the team he inherited... ok

3. If we were somehow getting worse than 15/16 it would be quite the accomplishment. You have a low bar.