[Poll] Jim Benning

[Darius]

1 minute ago, kanucks25 said:

Benning is the GM of the team. He's expected to build the team, that's his job.[/quote]

Hes managed to assemble some nice young players including a hobey baker winner (not an obvious draft choice), calder trophy winner (not an obvious draft choice) and calder runner up (not an obvious draft choice),  The Canucks have a prospect pool is ranked  in the top tier of the league according to many reputable publications.  If you cant see the building blocks because they are not making calder type impacts right away then that is on you.

 

 

1 minute ago, kanucks25 said:

 

Outside of Stecher, he's done nothing to improve this defense over the 5 years he's been here. [/quote]

He drafted Juolevi (who Bob Mckenzie described as the most highly ranked D man in the draft on the eve of that draft), Tryamkin, hughes, woo.  These players take time to make an impact.  It is on you if you want to be satisfied now  and expect immediate results.

 

1 minute ago, kanucks25 said:

 

"It's hard to find good D-men" is not an acceptable excuse. How low are your expectations? Like I've always said, if the object is to be awful and draft high, you or I could be the GM, don't need some hockey professional.

I asked you a question which you didnt address. Young top 4 d men are very expensive.  Would you have been happy if Benning traded top picks, top prospects, to rebuild the defence at any point during the teams downward trajectory?

 

 

1 minute ago, kanucks25 said:

 

Good GMs find a way. San Jose added a generational D-man for peanuts,[/quote]

Come on, if benning trade first rounder, second rounder and a bunch of prospects for a chance at renting Karlsson for the remainder of the year you would have been up in arms.

 

 

 

[xereau]

10 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

 

you need to send a note to 1040 and ask them to make this a twitter question. My bet is the result on a twitter poll will be mostly negative toward Jim. I'd be very interested to see the comparison. 

Polls are just referendums on who is willing to click on them and have zero bearing on reality.

[kanucks25]

16 minutes ago, Darius said:

Hes managed to assemble some nice young players including a hobey baker winner (not an obvious draft choice), calder trophy winner (not an obvious draft choice) and calder runner up (not an obvious draft choice),  The Canucks have a prospect pool is ranked  in the top tier of the league according to many reputable publications.  If you cant see the building blocks because they are not making calder type impacts right away then that is on you.

 

 

He drafted Juolevi (who Bob Mckenzie described as the most highly ranked D man in the draft on the eve of that draft), Tryamkin, hughes, woo.  These players take time to make an impact.  It is on you if you want to be satisfied now  and expect immediate results.

 

I asked you a question which you didnt address. Young top 4 d men are very expensive.  Would you have been happy if Benning traded top picks, top prospects, to rebuild the defence at any point during the teams downward trajectory?

 

 

Come on, if benning trade first rounder, second rounder and a bunch of prospects for a chance at renting Karlsson for the remainder of the year you would have been up in arms.

You're counting the chickens before they hatch. Hughes looks like he'll be a good one, but again he's one of those top 1st round picks that Benning didn't exactly do anything to garner (other than suck). It wasn't long ago that we were penciling in guys like Shinkaruk and Jensen to be in our top-6, prospects don't always pan out.

 

I never argued that we don't have a solid prospect pool or one that's a lot better than what Gillis left Benning with, but again, when you have zero expectations to win and have the green light to suck and draft high for 5 years, it'd be pretty difficult to not improve your prospect pool.

 

I don't take any credit away from Benning for his hits in the draft, but having some hits in the draft (especially when you draft as high as we've been drafting) isn't some sort of extraordinary accomplishment, it should be the bare minimum.

 

No, I wouldn't have traded picks and prospects for D-men because that's not what you should do during a rebuild. Problem is, Benning did, and has very little to show for it: 

- Sbisa was a large part of the Kesler trade, probably could have received a pick or prospect instead

- Prospect for Clendening

- Pick for Larsen

- A recent 1st round prospect + high 2nd for Gudbranson

- Pick for Pouliot

 

And that list doesn't include the picks given up for failed forward projects.

 

This is my main gripe with Benning. It's okay that we've sucked for several years. It's not okay that during this time we given up, not accumulated, extra assets that we need to separate ourselves from the pack. It's the main reason why, 5 years into Benning's tenure, we still have glaring holes in our lineup and pretty much nothing to trade to fill them.

Edited June 26, 2019 by kanucks25

[Boudrias]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

If you take what he did the first three years and start at when he traded Burrows, Hansen and Beiksa...re-tool over rebuild starting how would you grade him then?  

 

Id say the meddling was pretty clear at the start, re-tool was his only option to get the job in the first place is my guess. And he made lemonade out of lemons, secretly building a pool despite this mandate...33-of 34 picks and some of them higher etc.  He never went all-in.

 

That is forgivable.

 

We’ve never done a rebuild like this one before, as far as ownership goes at least the didn’t fire him and bring in a new guy who would start a scorched earth rebuild and put us back another five years (yet, also my biggest fear).  This team isn’t cluttered with clauses like it used to be so it’s possible.    

 

Rebuilds take time.  Ours officially started three years ago and look where we are today.  On the cusp of getting back into the playoffs...

 

He has one more area to address and he’s been working his tail off to get it done.  Free Agency talks are opening, would love to be a fly on the wall to see who’s going where and which guys Bennings targeting, if expect there will be a few and on July 1 the metamorphosis will start.   If our left side 3rd is better then Hutton that’s a huge improvement compared to the start of last year (Hutton plus Pouilet).   Even a vet like McAuaid would change the look and experience of our RHD a lot.  

 

Rumours are 6-7 different roster players to start next year...so far we have Miller and Hughes pencilled in...wonder where the rest is coming from...

IMHO the time for tinkering was in the summer of 2012. I wanted some major pieces moved at that time but I doubt if fans or ownership would have agreed. I also suggest that managements in USA markets tend towards full rebuilds much quicker and easier than Canadians simply because they are familiar with the process being exposed to the NBA, MLB and the NFL. 

 

In the first 3 years Benning had to add some vets in the 25 - 28 age group as there were none. Many of these players are no longer in the system but they served a role. If you look back on those rosters you are reminded of how desperate the Canuck franchise was. Many blame Benning's possible short comings during this process but in all reality he could only work is way out thru the draft. In fairness the Acquilini's take some responsibility as they either dragged their feet on starting the rebuild or listened to management who did.  

[kingofsurrey]

1 hour ago, smithers joe said:

like hughes, tryamkin, juolevi , woo, edler, stecher and tanev. ? it takes time for the new guys to take their place on this team. he drafted tryamkin, juolevi, hughes and woo. 

edler, tanev were already here. stecher was a pick up. he could have done better, but he has improved the defense through drafting. to get good d-men, he has to over pay. then people complain that he isn’t getting good d-men for nothing.. let him finish his job and if it fails, they will bring in a new gm.  a new gm for fans to be critical of. people have been critical of every gm we’ve ever had.

Its a results based business. So far JB has had no positive  results....  so the jury is still out.     He is on the last year of a contract so of course it very unclear whether he will be allowed to finish the rebuild he has attempted to pull off.  Stay tuned. 

[wildwood12]

I remember when Jim Benning took over. Linden had to calm people down because the Orca was a mess. Nothing for prospects in Utica. .Bo Horvat was the only quality prospect drafted 9th (Gillis) because of the trade with New Jersey. It was a post Apex team that needed rebuilding and JB had to deal with a disgruntled and Arrogant Kesler who gave Jim ONE TEAM to trade to. 

I look at the team now and the prospect pool is amazing. What Jim has done within a short period of time is amazing. If I saw Jim on the street I would tell it to his face.

Despite not getting any help through the lottery (we have moved down each time) Jim has still made excellent decisions. However he has made some mistakes, I get that. WHO DOESN'T. Every GM Makes Mistakes.

People who harp on the mistakes are like people who driving on the Highway and there is a traffic accident ahead of them.

The injured have to be taken away and the highway has to be cleaned up..  They wonder whats going on?? Why arent we moving??? And so they continualiy Honk their Horn.

Let  me tell you: YOU COULD'T DO Jim's Job. You are not smart enough.

 

[Timråfan]

11 minutes ago, wildwood12 said:

me tell you: YOU COULD'T DO Jim's Job. You are not smart enough.

 

You have to define what "smart" means to you before I can say what I think of that. 

[gameburn]

14 hours ago, sonoman said:

Bare cupboard, too many NTC/NMC handed out by previous management.  Many unwilling to waive such clauses cough, Edler, cough.

Drafting well.  Few decent trades, few bad trades.  Cuts bait pretty quickly but seems to give players a chance to improve. 

Probably honest to a fault.  

Better assessment than a lot of the paid journalists I see around here (and further East, too.)  

Your reading of Benning covers all the years up to now and this very week too.  Goldobin still given a chance to improve, Hutton has had a few years, same as Granlund.  Fantastic first 3 picks this year, maybe overpaid for Beagle, maybe over paid in trade for J.T. Miller.  Yes, I think you have it dead on.

[alt kilgore]

Dumb poll question.

 

No Canucks fan worth his salt is "against" Jim Benning.   That sounds personal.  Even if its strictly professional, framing it as being "against" or "for" him is not the point.  We all are FOR  him succeeding.  The question, if there is one, is rating his results, so far, as leaving us with a glass full or empty.  If his positive moves outweigh the disappointing moves, or how  much confidence do you have in him based on his past deals.  But whatever that poll comes out as, everyone is FOR all his deals to work out in Canucks favour from now on.  Miller will have new life and average at least 20 goals a season for his contract. Lind and Gadjovich and other prospects take a leap forward, he can cajole Tryamkin back, etc. etc.  I'm more than ready to upgrade my opinion of him.  Go Jim Go

.

.

Edited June 26, 2019 by kilgore

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, Boudrias said:

IMHO the time for tinkering was in the summer of 2012. I wanted some major pieces moved at that time but I doubt if fans or ownership would have agreed. I also suggest that managements in USA markets tend towards full rebuilds much quicker and easier than Canadians simply because they are familiar with the process being exposed to the NBA, MLB and the NFL. 

 

In the first 3 years Benning had to add some vets in the 25 - 28 age group as there were none. Many of these players are no longer in the system but they served a role. If you look back on those rosters you are reminded of how desperate the Canuck franchise was. Many blame Benning's possible short comings during this process but in all reality he could only work is way out thru the draft. In fairness the Acquilini's take some responsibility as they either dragged their feet on starting the rebuild or listened to management who did.  

Back in 2012 my brother said we should trade the Sedins and start over...for those with long emotional memories back then we’d just lost to LA  after winning back to back presidents trophies and all the right men were locked in for at least two or three more tries at a cup.

 

I thought it was nuts.  LA went on to win the cup and Duncan Keith is an A-hole.  Can’t recall when an eighth seed team did that, but I begrudgingly give them some credit given even though they could barely win enough games to make the playoffs their teams were built for it. 

And Quick like Thomas before him, was other worldly.

 

Your right, fans would have gone absolutely ape $&!# over trading two recent Art Ross, Hart and Pearson/Lindsay winners and going into full rebuild cycle.   We were supposed to get back to the final and this time win right?  Isn’t that what happens to good teams?  History says yes, it’s happened many times, even if it takes a few years.

 

Given both the Kesler-Gate and Luongo/Schneider-Gate issues on the cusp of already breaking who knows maybe right now in some multi-verse the Canucks have McDavid and AM as their two top centers and Horvat as their third....becuase some GM convinced ownership it was the right play and they agreed.

 

Hindsight is easy to say what should have happened.  IMO making the playoffs and losing to Calgary (what were we, 7th overall that year? Not bad.) also re-encouraged ownership to keep on going on the re-tool, heck it looks to be working (damn you Miller!). 

 

Personally I think Benning had big doubts all along and was playing both sides, he didn’t trade past the picks we’d get if we stayed pat, he used the extra picks to fill in some age gap roles with Vey and Bear (which at the very least is a wash, statistically a good trade even with two seconds) and he traded McCaan because the dressing room hated the entitled pr$ck, and a solid move in Granlund.  Prust was because Kassian was a train wreck at the time and toughness still mattered...can’t complain about Dorsett, he’s the type of guy that helps you win cups too.  Lack, well we got picks back right and what did he manage after the trade, very little even though he was a fan fave and had a great SP at the time. 

 

  These are things that Benning critics don’t often include in their dialogue, either because they are ignorant, naive or plain trolls - all of which aren’t cool.  

 

And finally, if we didn’t have Benning and didn’t go through the Sedins swan song years, we would not have what we do today, which is a top 3 21 and under team league wide, that started the off season with a huge hole on EPs wing that just got filled (Miller isn’t huge but he’s like JV,  big enough to do a lot of damage, Calgary didn’t like this at all, same with the Cali teams) in fact with Podz in the back-burner this forward group is good enough now, goaltending too the defense is next.  

[Arrow 1983]

And if you didn't think it could get any worse for Jim Benning the old Gillies Regime hits again with a $2.2 million extra cap hit.

 

That is 2.2 million less for JB to work with this July 1st to improve the Canucks defence but of course this is Jims fault as well.

[IBatch]

For those of you that live out East, and follow and love the Canucks as I do, I’m going to say that the media isn’t nearly as critical as some might think.  For the past two years most of the print media is praising him over and over again for the crop of young players, and no longer questioning his every move like they did during the re-tool stage.  I know this because I endured it since I moved the year before we went to the final (ugh the timing of it still bugs me after decades of taking the ferry over to watch games).

 

I live close to OTT so most things I see and read locally are about the Sens (poor me ha ha), BUT i do subscribe to THN and have for years, every single month they have someone write something about every team, and even though their headquarters are in TO, the critical comments started to abate when Boeser was lighting up goalies two years ago and changed to praise.  Pretty much every issue (40 per year plus extras which I also enjoy) since then has a prop or two and the lingering skepticism is long gone. 

 

Also the talking heads on TV have changed their tune, that’s what happens when you start to win more and have a stable of young horses with loads of potential. 

 

When EP went down in MTL I was at the game.   It was deliberate and IMO even worse then earlier in FLD.  That A-hole lied about it later and apologized but he was trying his best to knock him out of the game.  Ken Campbell later wrote an article about it and he’s anti-enforcer, on how these sort of plays are entering the game and how they have no place in it. 100% supporting EP.   

 

Im on this forum daily, and read about the critics back West making a big deal out of nothing ... I think the bias is actually worse back there then it is here. The team isn’t getting ripped apart and criticized here (at least for now) the media is too focused on the local team.  Same with TO where the sun rises and sets over what type of sandwich AM eats at lunch.   Point is nobody back East really gives a flying crap what Benning is doing - but when the articles do come out it’s more often then not praise the past two years.::

[Rush17]

Landslide poll.

 

Yes (for)

210 votes

 

No (against)

20

 

.... Lol

[Rush17]

16 hours ago, Arrow 1983 said:

I'm just showing if my hypothesis is true that the Canuck Fan base on this forum is being trolled by a few minorities and that if I'm right most of the Canuck fan base is actually happy with the management of this team. That the fire JB, JB can't asset manage, JB can't make a trade, JB is trying to save his jobs so on and so forth is all being typed by the same minority. I would argue the same 15 or so members of this forum based on my count.

TSN 1040 has made it out like the fanbase is divided. Clearly us here have a similar view point.

[Baggins]

2 hours ago, kilgore said:

Dumb poll question.

 

No Canucks fan worth his salt is "against" Jim Benning.   That sounds personal.  Even if its strictly professional, framing it as being "against" or "for" him is not the point.  We all are FOR  him succeeding.  The question, if there is one, is rating his results, so far, as leaving us with a glass full or empty.  If his positive moves outweigh the disappointing moves, or how  much confidence do you have in him based on his past deals.  But whatever that poll comes out as, everyone is FOR all his deals to work out in Canucks favour from now on.  Miller will have new life and average at least 20 goals a season for his contract. Lind and Gadjovich and other prospects take a leap forward, he can cajole Tryamkin back, etc. etc.  I'm more than ready to upgrade my opinion of him.  Go Jim Go

.

.

I see it as pretty simple. You're either FOR him being our GM or AGAINST him being our GM. I certainly didn't read it as being for or against him succeeding. Although there are likely some who hated his being hired in the first place that didn't want him to succeed. lol

[kingofsurrey]

16 hours ago, 6string said:

                                                                               

                                                                 So rebuilds includes playoff dates  get real!

So you think the Oilers are the most well managed club in the NHL.   Thats too funny.

[kingofsurrey]

4 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

 

 

I look at the Canucks and see a team to get excited about.   Those who don't see that I feel sorry for but that is on  them.   

I get excited about my team after summer.   Thats what being a fan is.

Doesn't mean we have to think our GM is strong at all the elements of his position though.

[kingofsurrey]

17 hours ago, 6string said:

                                                                               

                                                                 So rebuilds includes playoff dates  get real!

Some by your logic.. the oilers are the top managed team in the NHL.   Wow.

 

 

 

Edited June 26, 2019 by kingofsurrey

[D-Money]

I'm in the "against". But I'm not surprised to see the majority be "for" him.

 

For one, the drafting has been overall very good. Pettersson and Boeser were grand slams. (Note: even if Benning gets canned this season, that doesn't necessarily affect Brackett and the rest of the scouting operation). But secondly, people want to believe that everything will be OK. They want to believe in their team. When a media member is critical of Canucks' management, the natural reaction is to take that personally, and stand up for your team.

 

However, outside of drafting, the vast majority of the rest of the organization has been nothing short of mis-managed. From the hiring of Willie Desjardins, to the inability to acquire competent defensemen, to the failure to accumulate picks, to the Linden dismissal/whatever, to the absolute tire fire in Utica this year, to even the inability to find a way to avoid a Luongo recapture penalty...it's been one mess after another. One or two of these are explainable...but all of them together form a pattern.

 

The most telling aspect to me is all of his MAJOR trades/acquisitions. After each one, the reaction of the vast majority of the media/pundits/bloggers/etc was overwhelmingly negative. In many cases, it was almost shock and awe, with them saying 'what in the hell is Benning doing'? And of course, the natural reaction of the Canucks fans was to stand up for their team, and look at it through rose-coloured glasses.

• With the Kesler trade, we all talked up how Bonino was a gem of a 2C who had been buried, and how Sbisa would recapture his game, and how McCann was the real deal. And regardless of the results, the excuse was always how "Benning's hands were tied".
• With the Sutter trade, we turned our back on Bonino, and all saw it as a huge upgrade...but it turned out Bonino was actually as-good-or-better, and on a much better contract.
• With the Gudbranson trade, this was the most polarizing of all. We all now turned our backs on McCann too. Many "stats nerds" were proclaiming how he wasn't a good, top-4 D-man, while Benning and the majority of Canucks fans just said, "of course he is". Most of them cheered when he was finally sent packing.
• With the Eriksson signing, it was widely questioned outside of Vancouver as to why the Canucks would sign an older player to a long-term contract like this - it didn't make sense. But us Canucks fans all talked about how good he looked with the twins at the World Cup, how even if he regressed he'd be a 20-goal guy, etc. Now he's an absolute anchor, that we'll have to pay to get rid of.

Every time, with the benefit of hindsight, we lost...and lost BIG. Guess what? The majority of the media/pundits/bloggers/etc were right! All of the defending and explaining we did to defend the move? It turned out to be total bull****! Sbisa sucked, Gudbranson sucked, Sutter sucked, and Eriksson sucked - and as a result, the Canucks sucked. Now, any in these moves in isolation are not a sign of an incompetent GM - it may just be a whiff. But as a whole, it is an unmistakeable pattern of management error.

 

So finally, this brings us to the J.T. Miller trade. The consensus outside of Vancouver is, "Good, even great player - but wwwwwaaaaaaayyyyy to much to pay". Again, the majority are putting on their rose-coloured glasses, and just assuming that we will improve, and that we are nothing like Ottawa, and the 1st won't be a lottery pick in both 2020 and 2021. But why? What have you seen so far to make you conclude that Benning knows how to build a winning NHL team? I suspect that the majority of the media/pundits/bloggers/etc. will be just as right as they were with Kesler/Sutter/Gudbranson/Eriksson, and we will once again profoundly regret the trade made last weekend.

 

For me, I'm sick of all the excuses. I want a GM who will win trades, acquire the right free agents, and ensure organizational stability. And I want it before the current one undermines the opportunity we have to build a contending team around Pettersson.

[IBatch]

28 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

Some by your logic.. the oilers are the top managed team in the NHL.   Wow.

 

 

 

Next first overall phenom in the making? EDM next generational player?  Hope they don’t waste him/her like they are doing with McDavid ... well kind of do.