[Poll] Jim Benning

[Rob_Zepp]

40 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

I get excited about my team after summer.   Thats what being a fan is.

Doesn't mean we have to think our GM is strong at all the elements of his position though.

I doubt any GM is strong at all their elements.   The Canucks are lucky in that they have some nice stability and competence in their management team.   Could they do better?   Of course they could.   Are they above the "average" in the NHL - yes they are.

[Dannydog]

20 minutes ago, D-Money said:

I'm in the "against". But I'm not surprised to see the majority be "for" him.

 

For one, the drafting has been overall very good. Pettersson and Boeser were grand slams. (Note: even if Benning gets canned this season, that doesn't necessarily affect Brackett and the rest of the scouting operation). But secondly, people want to believe that everything will be OK. They want to believe in their team. When a media member is critical of Canucks' management, the natural reaction is to take that personally, and stand up for your team.

 

However, outside of drafting, the vast majority of the rest of the organization has been nothing short of mis-managed. From the hiring of Willie Desjardins, to the inability to acquire competent defensemen, to the failure to accumulate picks, to the Linden dismissal/whatever, to the absolute tire fire in Utica this year, to even the inability to find a way to avoid a Luongo recapture penalty...it's been one mess after another. One or two of these are explainable...but all of them together form a pattern.

 

The most telling aspect to me is all of his MAJOR trades/acquisitions. After each one, the reaction of the vast majority of the media/pundits/bloggers/etc was overwhelmingly negative. In many cases, it was almost shock and awe, with them saying 'what in the hell is Benning doing'? And of course, the natural reaction of the Canucks fans was to stand up for their team, and look at it through rose-coloured glasses.

• With the Kesler trade, we all talked up how Bonino was a gem of a 2C who had been buried, and how Sbisa would recapture his game, and how McCann was the real deal. And regardless of the results, the excuse was always how "Benning's hands were tied".
• With the Sutter trade, we turned our back on Bonino, and all saw it as a huge upgrade...but it turned out Bonino was actually as-good-or-better, and on a much better contract.
• With the Gudbranson trade, this was the most polarizing of all. We all now turned our backs on McCann too. Many "stats nerds" were proclaiming how he wasn't a good, top-4 D-man, while Benning and the majority of Canucks fans just said, "of course he is". Most of them cheered when he was finally sent packing.
• With the Eriksson signing, it was widely questioned outside of Vancouver as to why the Canucks would sign an older player to a long-term contract like this - it didn't make sense. But us Canucks fans all talked about how good he looked with the twins at the World Cup, how even if he regressed he'd be a 20-goal guy, etc. Now he's an absolute anchor, that we'll have to pay to get rid of.

Every time, with the benefit of hindsight, we lost...and lost BIG. Guess what? The majority of the media/pundits/bloggers/etc were right! All of the defending and explaining we did to defend the move? It turned out to be total bull****! Sbisa sucked, Gudbranson sucked, Sutter sucked, and Eriksson sucked - and as a result, the Canucks sucked. Now, any in these moves in isolation are not a sign of an incompetent GM - it may just be a whiff. But as a whole, it is an unmistakeable pattern of management error.

 

So finally, this brings us to the J.T. Miller trade. The consensus outside of Vancouver is, "Good, even great player - but wwwwwaaaaaaayyyyy to much to pay". Again, the majority are putting on their rose-coloured glasses, and just assuming that we will improve, and that we are nothing like Ottawa, and the 1st won't be a lottery pick in both 2020 and 2021. But why? What have you seen so far to make you conclude that Benning knows how to build a winning NHL team? I suspect that the majority of the media/pundits/bloggers/etc. will be just as right as they were with Kesler/Sutter/Gudbranson/Eriksson, and we will once again profoundly regret the trade made last weekend.

 

For me, I'm sick of all the excuses. I want a GM who will win trades, acquire the right free agents, and ensure organizational stability. And I want it before the current one undermines the opportunity we have to build a contending team around Pettersson

Wow, lol . Great ending> You mean the same guy that drafted Boesser,Hughes, and petterson just might undermine  the opportunity that HE (not we) built through drafting this future contending core around petterson. That guy? Your hoping those GMs who chose 22 picks before boeser , maybe we could get the 6 that passed on  hughes  or even better we could get lucky enough to get the 1 GM who had any foresite to pick Petterson. Alot of questions batted around in regards to petterson by all.JB is the only guy that should be building this team and JT was a great choice to start making a big push forward.

[WeneedLumme]

18 hours ago, Roger Neilsons Towel said:

I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t curious to see the final results of the poll. 

Likewise, haha. I often don't vote in these polls, but I did in this one because I was curious to see if my impression that the huge volume of Benning hate that gets dumped in CDC was the same handful of posters just repeating themselves over and over was correct. And sure enough it is.

[The Lock]

1 minute ago, WeneedLumme said:

Likewise, haha. I often don't vote in these polls, but I did in this one because I was curious to see if my impression that the huge volume of Benning hate that gets dumped in CDC was the same handful of posters just repeating themselves over and over was correct. And sure enough it is.

Human beings by nature are more vocal in their dislikes than their likes. I think the majority of people who are positive likely don't post a whole lot because they are content.

[6string]

1 hour ago, kingofsurrey said:

So you think the Oilers are the most well managed club in the NHL.   Thats too funny.

Stay on topic, Benning and the Canucks.

 

Go speak to an Oilers fan about their rebuild.

[D-Money]

18 hours ago, Dannydog said:

Wow, lol . Great ending> You mean the same guy that drafted Boesser,Hughes, and petterson just might undermine  the opportunity that HE (not we) built through drafting this future contending core around petterson. That guy? Your hoping those GMs who chose 22 picks before boeser , maybe we could get the 6 that passed on  hughes  or even better we could get lucky enough to get the 1 GM who had any foresite to pick Petterson. Alot of questions batted around in regards to petterson by all.JB is the only guy that should be building this team and JT was a great choice to start making a big push forward.

Benning doesn't own Pettersson. It was a great pick, granted. But from what has been said publicly, the selection was largely based on the reports from Gradin.

 

And the other GMs hit homeruns in the draft too. Boston whiffed on 2/3 first rounders before Boeser. But the year before they got Pastrnak at #25, after Benning took Virtanen at #6 and McCann at #24. 

 

Like I said, overall the drafting has been great. But almost everything beyond that has been significantly below average. We won't win anything if this continues.

Edited June 27, 2019 by D-Money

[6string]

1 hour ago, kingofsurrey said:

Some by your logic.. the oilers are the top managed team in the NHL.   Wow.

 

 

 

What a fail bringing Edmonton into the conversation.

 

Benning has us ready for lift off, enjoy the ride!

[6string]

Current poll has it 234 to 21, it's nice to see the support Jim deserves.

[iceman64]

7 hours ago, Tomatoes11 said:

I would have kept all the picks instead of this place holder bs and for sure we would be better off for it this 6th season. 100%. Benning did nothing in these 5 years through trades, not hard to do better than that.  Any other gm can for sure so that’s why we need a new one.

 

And this is nit even getting all the known moves that lost us assets and poor cap management where we had to put Markstrom and others on waivers. 

 

He is is really really bad.

Earth to tomatoes... you can't trade long term ntc's and nmc's unless they agree but some didn't and held out and same with others that held out longer and finally agreed, and some not at all. All you can do is plug whatever spots you can until it's back to square one which was last year in case you didn't notice... 

Now it's all in his shoulders, no excuses and if he fails to make the team into a true cup contender within the next year or 2 then yeah he can go but he made a core of Alien Bo and Brock and is trying to upgrade and just has with JT and anything new he pulls off and now we have Pods waiting in the wings that won't be lost to the ED... which was smart as he can fill any forward spot in the top six if one gets lost to seattle..

And JB's on the right track even with a loss of 3 million luongo's contract handicap to boot which was MG's move, not his...  wish you'd put some more thought into your b.s. and then go and ask any GM in the league how easy it would have been to be a GM have to work out all that out... any one of them would laugh in your face and walk away not bothering to answer as you wouldn't understand and asking that question showed it... it's not rocket science to know it would be next to impossible until the circumstances changed so, sorry one can't build a contender if you have guy's you want upgraded have clauses plus a thing called a salary cap. 

Still can't get your head around the details of a GM can you?

 

 

.

Edited June 26, 2019 by iceman64

[Cromeslab]

**

Edited June 26, 2019 by Cromeslab

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, D-Money said:

I'm in the "against". But I'm not surprised to see the majority be "for" him.

 

For one, the drafting has been overall very good. Pettersson and Boeser were grand slams. (Note: even if Benning gets canned this season, that doesn't necessarily affect Brackett and the rest of the scouting operation). But secondly, people want to believe that everything will be OK. They want to believe in their team. When a media member is critical of Canucks' management, the natural reaction is to take that personally, and stand up for your team.

 

However, outside of drafting, the vast majority of the rest of the organization has been nothing short of mis-managed. From the hiring of Willie Desjardins, to the inability to acquire competent defensemen, to the failure to accumulate picks, to the Linden dismissal/whatever, to the absolute tire fire in Utica this year, to even the inability to find a way to avoid a Luongo recapture penalty...it's been one mess after another. One or two of these are explainable...but all of them together form a pattern.

 

The most telling aspect to me is all of his MAJOR trades/acquisitions. After each one, the reaction of the vast majority of the media/pundits/bloggers/etc was overwhelmingly negative. In many cases, it was almost shock and awe, with them saying 'what in the hell is Benning doing'? And of course, the natural reaction of the Canucks fans was to stand up for their team, and look at it through rose-coloured glasses.

• With the Kesler trade, we all talked up how Bonino was a gem of a 2C who had been buried, and how Sbisa would recapture his game, and how McCann was the real deal. And regardless of the results, the excuse was always how "Benning's hands were tied".
• With the Sutter trade, we turned our back on Bonino, and all saw it as a huge upgrade...but it turned out Bonino was actually as-good-or-better, and on a much better contract.
• With the Gudbranson trade, this was the most polarizing of all. We all now turned our backs on McCann too. Many "stats nerds" were proclaiming how he wasn't a good, top-4 D-man, while Benning and the majority of Canucks fans just said, "of course he is". Most of them cheered when he was finally sent packing.
• With the Eriksson signing, it was widely questioned outside of Vancouver as to why the Canucks would sign an older player to a long-term contract like this - it didn't make sense. But us Canucks fans all talked about how good he looked with the twins at the World Cup, how even if he regressed he'd be a 20-goal guy, etc. Now he's an absolute anchor, that we'll have to pay to get rid of.

Every time, with the benefit of hindsight, we lost...and lost BIG. Guess what? The majority of the media/pundits/bloggers/etc were right! All of the defending and explaining we did to defend the move? It turned out to be total bull****! Sbisa sucked, Gudbranson sucked, Sutter sucked, and Eriksson sucked - and as a result, the Canucks sucked. Now, any in these moves in isolation are not a sign of an incompetent GM - it may just be a whiff. But as a whole, it is an unmistakeable pattern of management error.

 

So finally, this brings us to the J.T. Miller trade. The consensus outside of Vancouver is, "Good, even great player - but wwwwwaaaaaaayyyyy to much to pay". Again, the majority are putting on their rose-coloured glasses, and just assuming that we will improve, and that we are nothing like Ottawa, and the 1st won't be a lottery pick in both 2020 and 2021. But why? What have you seen so far to make you conclude that Benning knows how to build a winning NHL team? I suspect that the majority of the media/pundits/bloggers/etc. will be just as right as they were with Kesler/Sutter/Gudbranson/Eriksson, and we will once again profoundly regret the trade made last weekend.

 

For me, I'm sick of all the excuses. I want a GM who will win trades, acquire the right free agents, and ensure organizational stability. And I want it before the current one undermines the opportunity we have to build a contending team around Pettersson.

Man you should par-take in the bud that’s now legal and chill a little.  Context is important you know and in each on of these deals your generalizing the issues. 

 

Like the last one where you say it’s “waaaaaaaaaaay” of an overpayment. I’ve read enough media responses to know that in now way is what the consensus feels.  In fact the majority of what I’ve read so far is congratulations to Benning for filling a need with a modest UNDERPAYMENT.

 

Some of what you said is bang on.  I see you’ve neglected to mention the McCaan was despised by the teammates families, considered an entitled du)&he-bag.   Does he get credit for quickly moving him out? No.  And most of us were excited by a promising young RHD that was tough as nails.

 

Everyone wants a GM that wins trades, but how many actually do?  Not many.  They win some (Granlund) and lose some (Vey).  We do have Pearson still ... did he’s not chopped liver, and most of us were happy to move on from Guddy to get him.   Kesler is out of the league yet we still have Sutter plus plus.  Is that really a loss? How’s Bonino doing now anyways? 

 

Personally so far I’ve viewed all his trades as minor - mid sized ones, the JT Miller one and the Kelser  (noticed you didn’t mention he was handcuffed in that one) are the biggest.   Miller is worth that trade 10 out of 10 times.   If you break it down 68% of first rounders play 200 games ... of those half don’t make it much past that... and our pick won’t be ready for four or five years ... if TB wasnt strapped no way do they make this deal, he was a coveted trade addition when they acquired them (which also included a first even though he had one year left on his contract).   

 

You want a GM that wins trades, well me too, and he just won one.   Early he was often trading from a position of weakness, something was wrong with the players (McCaan, Kesler, Kassian etc).   The market is what it is and nobody is making a turd into diamond in those cases.   I think your listening to the wrong media, because out East when I do read or hear something is more praise then criticism and had been that way for two years now...

 

Edit: considering all the crap he’s had to deal with and the S@(t sandwich he’s started with I’m actually amazed he isn’t in a mental institution and that we now have a team like we do.  I expected much worse.  You don’t go from being a top team to a top team ever in game since expansion.   The only team to ever manage it was Detroit and they had guys left over from the previous core to help.  We have Edler and Tanev, not exactly Lidstrom and Osgood plus plus plus. 

 

Fans need to educate themselves and be realistic about their expectations.  From the WCE era to 2014 only SJ won more games then us in the regular season... food for thought.   I feel bad for anyone who only watched during that era because they have no idea how bad it can really get.   Try being a fan from the late seventies until now, aside from the Linden teams and a one off fluke (because the better teams lost each time and it opened the door to a brooming) there really was not much to cheer about.

 

Last year without the losing streak we made the playoffs.  Heck early on as usual we were beating the best in the league and that’s with our “terrible” defense.  I hope we make the playoffs and win a couple rounds ... just to watch whomever (tomatoes) try and justify how that happened and how in no way was Benning part of it.

 

 

Edited June 26, 2019 by IBatch

[Trebreh]

I still trust JB 100%, but i hope he spend all summer trading as many dead weight off the roster as possible (Spooner/Sutter/Eriksson).

 

 

[IBatch]

6 minutes ago, Trebreh said:

I still trust JB 100%, but i hope he spend all summer trading as many dead weight off the roster as possible (Spooner/Sutter/Eriksson).

 

 

And using that money wisely...

[gameburn]

1 hour ago, D-Money said:

I'm in the "against". But I'm not surprised to see the majority be "for" him.

 

For one, the drafting has been overall very good. Pettersson and Boeser were grand slams. (Note: even if Benning gets canned this season, that doesn't necessarily affect Brackett and the rest of the scouting operation). But secondly, people want to believe that everything will be OK. They want to believe in their team. When a media member is critical of Canucks' management, the natural reaction is to take that personally, and stand up for your team.

 

However, outside of drafting, the vast majority of the rest of the organization has been nothing short of mis-managed. From the hiring of Willie Desjardins, to the inability to acquire competent defensemen, to the failure to accumulate picks, to the Linden dismissal/whatever, to the absolute tire fire in Utica this year, to even the inability to find a way to avoid a Luongo recapture penalty...it's been one mess after another. One or two of these are explainable...but all of them together form a pattern.

 

The most telling aspect to me is all of his MAJOR trades/acquisitions. After each one, the reaction of the vast majority of the media/pundits/bloggers/etc was overwhelmingly negative. In many cases, it was almost shock and awe, with them saying 'what in the hell is Benning doing'? And of course, the natural reaction of the Canucks fans was to stand up for their team, and look at it through rose-coloured glasses.

• With the Kesler trade, we all talked up how Bonino was a gem of a 2C who had been buried, and how Sbisa would recapture his game, and how McCann was the real deal. And regardless of the results, the excuse was always how "Benning's hands were tied".
• With the Sutter trade, we turned our back on Bonino, and all saw it as a huge upgrade...but it turned out Bonino was actually as-good-or-better, and on a much better contract.
• With the Gudbranson trade, this was the most polarizing of all. We all now turned our backs on McCann too. Many "stats nerds" were proclaiming how he wasn't a good, top-4 D-man, while Benning and the majority of Canucks fans just said, "of course he is". Most of them cheered when he was finally sent packing.
• With the Eriksson signing, it was widely questioned outside of Vancouver as to why the Canucks would sign an older player to a long-term contract like this - it didn't make sense. But us Canucks fans all talked about how good he looked with the twins at the World Cup, how even if he regressed he'd be a 20-goal guy, etc. Now he's an absolute anchor, that we'll have to pay to get rid of.

Every time, with the benefit of hindsight, we lost...and lost BIG. Guess what? The majority of the media/pundits/bloggers/etc were right! All of the defending and explaining we did to defend the move? It turned out to be total bull****! Sbisa sucked, Gudbranson sucked, Sutter sucked, and Eriksson sucked - and as a result, the Canucks sucked. Now, any in these moves in isolation are not a sign of an incompetent GM - it may just be a whiff. But as a whole, it is an unmistakeable pattern of management error.

 

So finally, this brings us to the J.T. Miller trade. The consensus outside of Vancouver is, "Good, even great player - but wwwwwaaaaaaayyyyy to much to pay". Again, the majority are putting on their rose-coloured glasses, and just assuming that we will improve, and that we are nothing like Ottawa, and the 1st won't be a lottery pick in both 2020 and 2021. But why? What have you seen so far to make you conclude that Benning knows how to build a winning NHL team? I suspect that the majority of the media/pundits/bloggers/etc. will be just as right as they were with Kesler/Sutter/Gudbranson/Eriksson, and we will once again profoundly regret the trade made last weekend.

 

For me, I'm sick of all the excuses. I want a GM who will win trades, acquire the right free agents, and ensure organizational stability. And I want it before the current one undermines the opportunity we have to build a contending team around Pettersson.

I gave you a hydration because of the quality of the post.  Best  counter-argument to Benning's reign in a long time.  Like most readers I probably disagree with some of it, but in terms of sheer results (traded away picks, inability to move players such as Edler and Hamhuis) it is still very much up in the air if Benning is "good enough."  His draft picks and his approach to the media/fans is the best we've seen here in a long time, but if this team gives up a lottery pick (a la New Jersey) to a team like Tampa? Lol, he won't have to be fired, he'll resign.  Asset management is an area they could use an assistant manager to cover as his main job, another for contracts, maybe.  Not sure. 

 

It's unclear to me what is happening with Hutton, but it looks as if our 3rd best D after Stecher and Tanev/Edler (= one full player, as each misses half the season) has not received a qualifying offer.  Hughes has yet to prove he is our best D, I assume he will be, but... sample size matters.  What is worrying about the Hutton situation is that if he walks, we lose a D after a remarkable come back year, a guy who played the second most minutes on the team.  Too good to risk arbitration with, but not good enough to keep?  Please tell me this is not what is happening.

 

 

[iceman64]

Actually i'm in the 50/50 camp for now, the old guard are now and if he can't take us forward then turf him but as long as we get a post season and get deeper into it every year and into a solid cup contending team then obviously yes he stays. 

 I'd rather hedge on the side of JB learning the craft the hard way so he's more aware of how things can go sideways at the best of times for any team...

 

[iceman64]

6 minutes ago, gameburn said:

I gave you a hydration because of the quality of the post.  Best  counter-argument to Benning's reign in a long time.  Like most readers I probably disagree with some of it, but in terms of sheer results (traded away picks, inability to move players such as Edler and Hamhuis) it is still very much up in the air if Benning is "good enough."  His draft picks and his approach to the media/fans is the best we've seen here in a long time, but if this team gives up a lottery pick (a la New Jersey) to a team like Tampa? Lol, he won't have to be fired, he'll resign.  Asset management is an area they could use an assistant manager to cover as his main job, another for contracts, maybe.  Not sure. 

 

It's unclear to me what is happening with Hutton, but it looks as if our 3rd best D after Stecher and Tanev/Edler (= one full player, as each misses half the season) has not received a qualifying offer.  Hughes has yet to prove he is our best D, I assume he will be, but... sample size matters.  What is worrying about the Hutton situation is that if he walks, we lose a D after a remarkable come back year, a guy who played the second most minutes on the team.  Too good to risk arbitration with, but not good enough to keep?  Please tell me this is not what is happening.

 

 

Rafferty>Hutton, Raff is clearly a better D and has some physical bite and we need that

[iceman64]

1 hour ago, The Lock said:

Human beings by nature are more vocal in their dislikes than their likes. I think the majority of people who are positive likely don't post a whole lot because they are content.

AGREED!

[Tomatoes11]

9 hours ago, Alflives said:

Needed Dorsett, and how he played the right way.  Did you read what Brock said about having Luke Schenn?  I'm okay with the third for Dorsett.  It's the seconds we gave up for Vey, Baer, Sutter, and Guddy that I thought a rebuilding team (or retooling, what ever) should do.  

No I don’t think having Dorsett was a need. If he didn’t help ep become a superstar or Boeser become a sniper he simply wasn’t necessary and a waste of a 3rd. He contributed nothing in the fortunes of our future as far as I am concerned.

[Tomatoes11]

5 hours ago, Arrow 1983 said:

And if you didn't think it could get any worse for Jim Benning the old Gillies Regime hits again with a $2.2 million extra cap hit.

 

That is 2.2 million less for JB to work with this July 1st to improve the Canucks defence but of course this is Jims fault as well.

Easy fix. Dump schaller and get another dowd. Dim Jim likes spending the cap on bs like Beagle anyways so no biggie. If he pulled Marleau trade type moves then the 3.3 would hurt, but it’s Benning. It would be wasted anyways. Lol

[alt kilgore]

4 hours ago, Baggins said:

I see it as pretty simple. You're either FOR him being our GM or AGAINST him being our GM. I certainly didn't read it as being for or against him succeeding. Although there are likely some who hated his being hired in the first place that didn't want him to succeed. lol

So its if you are against him continuing on from here?   Like tomorrow?  Because even if one was disappointed with his tenure here, if he left tomorrow, none of his perceived mistakes by some would leave with him.  So even if we got a more experienced hockey GM, we wouldn't see much change for a few years from what it is.  Its a little late for that question.  JB will live or die by this summers moves.  If it all works out I'm happy,  if it fails, he'll be gone anyways. So its a pointless question IMO

 

In the present, we can only evaluate what Benning has done from a past perspective. No one 'hated' his being hired I don't think. We were all willing to give him a shot. But  If the question was, would you, in hindsight, have wanted Aquilini to have hired an experienced name recognizable GM who would have followed through with his promise to build through the draft , find more creative ways to get rid of contracts etc...then I'd have to consider a yes to that.  But that's not the question.