Salary cap management

[kacholu]

26 minutes ago, spur1 said:

Well 90% think JB is doing a good job and that you and a couple other naysayers are full of crap. 

You see 10% of us are result oriented. We will start believing when JB starts producing results. Plus you are referring to that poll that asks about the management not JB on his own. Without the scouting department JB is a train wreck. 

 

It is apparent that it's pointless to argue with you. It's clear that logic doesn't work on you.  

[spur1]

1 hour ago, kacholu said:

You see 10% of us are result oriented. We will start believing when JB starts producing results. Plus you are referring to that poll that asks about the management not JB on his own. Without the scouting department JB is a train wreck. 

 

It is apparent that it's pointless to argue with you. It's clear that logic doesn't work on you.  

You’re right. Flawed logic doesn’t work. 

[kanucks25]

2 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Since when have the Leafs been finishing at the top of the standings?

100 point team for 2 seasons (7th place both years NHL-wide) while their best players have been on rookie contracts, still haven't entered their primes. Likely will be a 100+ team for years to come.

 

Are you following the league?

[spur1]

As a side note the original article had Spooner listed as one of the forwards with a 3 mil cap hit. It was later updated as JB moved to buy him out today. 

That move alone weakened the journalists  position considerably. 

[JamesB]

14 hours ago, mll said:

 

Canucks will need to have the available cap space to take Roussel off LTIR - whether prospective or banked.   If teams use LTIR it limits the amount they can bank in cap space.  Injuries will also further reduce any available banked cap space.  If they don't have banked cap space available, once they are ready to take him off LTIR they will need to find a way to be 3M under the cap.  

 

Earlier in the month LeBrun speculated Boeser at 8M on a long term deal while Friedman in his latest 31 thoughts at 7.5M for 6 years.  His agency represents Laine and Rantanen who are set to break the bank - not the same agent though.  
 

Pettersson and Hughes have performance bonuses that count against the cap on top of their salaries.  Hughes doesn't seem to have schedule B bonuses but Pettersson does.   The schedule A is max. 850K per player and it's well possible they both hit them.  An overage can get carried over to next season.  Pettersson has 2M  in schedule B bonuses but they are based on league achievements like being top-10 in league scoring.  It seems less probable to hit those targets but should still count up to 2 x 850K to absorb any bonuses this season.  

 

 

4 hours ago, kanucks25 said:

Spooner bought out, thus closing the books on the Gagner contract (other than the buyout cap-hit, which is 1.03M for each of the next 2 seasons).

 

4 hours ago, komodo0921 said:

I don't know if it's actual fact or speculation but the idea of demoting Eriksson to "The A" has been bouncing around also.

Thanks to mll for clarifying the issues. I considered making those points in my analysis of the cap situation but decided not to for the following reasons.

 

1. As for LTIR,  yes the Canucks will need cap room for Roussel once he gets healthy. But that will be a while and chances are that someone else will go on LTIR in the meantime. If everyone is healthy, that would be a problem the Canucks would be happy to have and they would  do something to create space for him at that time. But I don't think the Canucks will treat that like a major constraint in free agency. Maybe they should, but I don't think they will. So I left it out of my post.

 

2. Bonuses do count, but they are uncertain and overages are allowed, subject to certain rules. I did not want to add this complication as it is not likely to be a major issue and it is not something that will affect Day 1.

 

3. The Spooner buy-out is the kind of minor move I had in mind. That will save about $2 million off the cap and that should be enough to create enough cap room to sign Myers or possibly someone else close to that price range. I still don't think it is a good idea (although if depends a lot on the exact price), but it is feasible.

 

4. Demoting Eriksson to the "A" does not help much. That only reduces the cap hit by about a million and the rest (5 million) counts against the cap. For a saving of a million it is not worth sending Eriksson down. He is grossly overpaid but is a good shutdown forward and good PK player who provides decent secondary scoring. A shutdown line of Beagle, Sutter and Eriksson would probably be a very good shutdown line (although no doubt the most expensive shutdown line in the NHL).  It would of course be better to trade Eriksson (and NOT take a bigger problem back in return -- like Lucic). But Eriksson would be hard to move. If the Canucks retain half his salary they might find some takers.

Edited June 29, 2019 by JamesB

[appleboy]

2 hours ago, coastal.view said:

hang on there

someone, anyone, correct me if i am wrong

 

the beauty/value of elc

is that only the contract salary counts towards the cap

the balance is cap exempt

 

that is why elc contracts are so especially valuable

bonuses, etc are ignored

 

you cannot build a modern nhl competitive team

without having elite players on elc contracts

or at least it is very hard

As far as I know they do count . They can be rolled to the next year but only one year.

So it depends on the nature of the bonus. Will Petey and Hughes hit them? Who knows

[therodigy]

16 hours ago, JamesB said:

I am not sure about the numbers provided by @coastal.view. I am not saying they are wrong. I just don't quite understand the arithmetic.

 

Here is what I have from CapFriendly.

 

1. At present the Canucks have 22 roster players signed and their total cap hit, including the Luongo cap recapture,  is $69.5 million.

2. Of that total, 3 million is for Roussel, who will go on LTIR once the season starts. So the "true" cap hit is for those players is $66.5 million and there are really only 21 guys available to start the year. .

3. Probably 3 of those guys will start the season in Utica or be traded for a non-roster player, probably reducing the cap hit by about 2.5 million and opening up 3 extra roster spots. So we are now at $64 million for 18 guys.

4. The Canucks need to sign Boeser, Motte, Leivo, and Goldobin. I think the range for Boeser is 6 to 7 million, maybe a bit more. The other three guys were all only getting about a million each last year. Including those guys and Boeser, I would allow for $12 million. That takes the team up to a 22-man roster with a cap hit of 76.

5. That leaves one roster spot and 5.5 million in cap space. That is not enough for Myers. To pay Myers $7 million, which is my guess for their offer, they would need to do something else to clear space, but not much. They could buy out someone or trade someone. 

 

So signing Myers would remove essentially all of their flexibility. I don't think he is worth it. I think signing him for anything over $6 million would be a mistake and the mistake will get more costly over time. especially when EP and Hughes need to be signed for big money in two years.

 

I made a cap/roster chart for the upcoming season. Happy to post when I get access to wifi. 

 

Long story short, there's money to sign Boeser long term at $8 million, Myers at $7 million, and about $8 million to resign Leivo, Motte, Goldy, and potentially a top 6 D to replace Hutty. This is under the presumption Roussel starts on LTIR, and Gaudette, Sautner, and Juolevi start in Utica. It's tight, but it's manageable. Once Roussel is activated, we have some salary to shed.

Edited June 29, 2019 by therodigy

[Rob_Zepp]

18 hours ago, kanucks25 said:

100 point team for 2 seasons (7th place both years NHL-wide) while their best players have been on rookie contracts, still haven't entered their primes. Likely will be a 100+ team for years to come.

 

Are you following the league?

I was not aware that 7th was the new definition of "top".   I guess it doesn't really matter given all the playoff series they won in any event the past two years........oh, wait.

[Alflives]

18 hours ago, kanucks25 said:

100 point team for 2 seasons (7th place both years NHL-wide) while their best players have been on rookie contracts, still haven't entered their primes. Likely will be a 100+ team for years to come.

 

Are you following the league?

Will the Leafs be as good next season?  Who plays defensive for them?  What if Marner leaves?  (four first rounders aren’t helping them now, especially if it’s a team like Colorado). 

 

[kanucks25]

58 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

I was not aware that 7th was the new definition of "top".   I guess it doesn't really matter given all the playoff series they won in any event the past two years........oh, wait.

I guess Tampa wasn't a top team either 'cause they didn't win a playoff series.

 

Whatever fits the narrative, I guess.

[Rob_Zepp]

On 6/30/2019 at 11:27 AM, kanucks25 said:

I guess Tampa wasn't a top team either 'cause they didn't win a playoff series.

 

Whatever fits the narrative, I guess.

We weren't talking about Tampa, you were talking about Toronto and called them the top team.   You have been corrected and now are digging a deeper hole.   Tampa won the President's Trophy and were the top regular season team.   As you point out, the playoffs didn't go so well for them.    Or for your Leafs for that matter.  

[spur1]

Great signings by JB which helps keep the Cap under control. 

[coastal.view]

On 6/30/2019 at 10:34 AM, Alflives said:

Will the Leafs be as good next season?  Who plays defensive for them?  What if Marner leaves?  (four first rounders aren’t helping them now, especially if it’s a team like Colorado). 

 

i just looked at cap friendly

to assist in reviewing the laffs defense

man is that team thin on the back end

 

i'm sure they are looking to add hutton

just like coilers added granlund

kind of funny that those fan bases

regularly trash canucks

but are now looking to our cast offs (well neither is really a cast off - more a bad contract situation issue)

to fill their teams many holes

[Tomatoes11]

After signing Boeser, we are going to be cap strapped even before sniffing the playoffs. That is really bad for a rebuilding team that never once weaponized the cap by taking in bad contracts.  Benning effectively gave himself bad contracts . Lol it’s actually quite hilarious how people can defend him and make fun of other teams...

 

At least the other teams are using the cap to try to win in the playoffs vs us who I honestly don’t even know wtf we are doing. We shouldn’t be up to the cap limit after a recent rebuild especially when we haven’t even sniffed the playoffs yet. That is textbook definition of bad management.  That is us. Yay! 

Edited July 2, 2019 by Tomatoes11

[canucksnihilist]

Man reality is tough for so many of you

 

its obvious these are terrible contracts:

1. Eriksson

2. Schaller

3. Sutter.

4. Gagner

 

the 4th line is the most expensive in the league...

 

don't u are a pattern here?  

 

Sure there are awesome things too .... but can’t u be objective at all?  Can u actually think about what is real instead of what you want reality to be?  Some of your posts - looks like you work for the Canucks or something.

 

young core development?  Drafting?  Jb is awesome.  Those are his strengths

 

getting value from contracts - getting the team a good deal?   When did that ever happen??  Name one instance please?   Even just one!  It doesn’t exist.  Make a trade that benefitted the team?   Where vancouver is the clear winner?  Not even a steal just a great trade?   Nope.

 

so why is it such a reach to see reality.

 

pick up your paycheck at the front office on your way out - if u aren’t getting paid then there is something wrong with some of you

 

 

 

 

[kanucks25]

20 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

We weren't talking about Tampa, you were talking about Toronto and called them the top team.   You have been corrected and now are digging a deeper hole.   Tampa won the President's Trophy and were the top regular season team.   As you point out, the playoffs didn't go so well for them.    Or for your Leafs for that matter.  

I don't know how the 7th place team over the past two years isn't considered a "top team" but okay.

[oldnews]

11 hours ago, canucksnihilist said:

Man reality is tough for so many of you

 

its obvious these are terrible contracts:

1. Eriksson

2. Schaller

3. Sutter.

4. Gagner

Gagner mistake is costing 1.03 million over 2 years.

You're trying way too hard with Schaller - one year remaining and less than 900k cap hit, if, worst case scenario they waive him,  he isn't claimed and he winds up in Utica.

Sutter - I don't think you know what you're talking about -  like a lot of people on these boards, who don't understand the value of Sutter, Beagle types (your comments about the 4th line - likely Leivo Beagle Motte - is dramatic, but 4th lines are worth spending 6 million on, particularly when they are that effective.

 

For all your efforts here, the Schaller, Gagner "terrible contracts" cost less than a Luongo recapture penalty, which you ironically haven't mentioned in a thread allegedly devoted to cap 'management'.

Well done on the 'reality'.

 

Much ado about Eriksson. 

Seriously, I don't see 'reality' in your post - I see ignorance of the value of building a four line team, while dwelling on an Eriksson contract that is a dead horse if there ever was one, and a Gagner signing that has been admittedly bought out (at marginal consequence).   Get over it - virtually every team has one or two contracts that they would rather not.

Edited July 2, 2019 by oldnews

[Rob_Zepp]

1 hour ago, kanucks25 said:

I don't know how the 7th place team over the past two years isn't considered a "top team" but okay.

If you don't know, it will be hard to explain it to you.   I guess if you are "OK" with it, that is a big step for you though.  Well done!   

[oldnews]

The Canucks have 10.1 million cap space presently.

 

Boeser - 5.5 million max on a bridge, more if long term, but I'd insist on a bridge deal.

Leivo 1.5?

Motte 1.2?

Goldobin 1.2?

9.4ish million.

 

Those four signings would give the team 14 forwards, so subtract a million for assigning Gaudette or waiving an LE, Schaller - assuming no one is dealt.

 

In the range of 1.7 million cap  - some which may go to Boeser if a longer term deal (but I'd hold tight at no more than Horvat on a bridge).

Waive an LE - or Schaller - and gain another  million.

 

Roussel - likely to start on LTIR / 3.0 million extra cap until he returns.

 

Ample cap space - with the additional likelihood that one or two of those forwards are gone in due course.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 2, 2019 by oldnews

[spook007]

On 6/30/2019 at 12:00 AM, therodigy said:

I made a cap/roster chart for the upcoming season. Happy to post when I get access to wifi. 

 

Long story short, there's money to sign Boeser long term at $8 million, Myers at $7 million, and about $8 million to resign Leivo, Motte, Goldy, and potentially a top 6 D to replace Hutty. This is under the presumption Roussel starts on LTIR, and Gaudette, Sautner, and Juolevi start in Utica. It's tight, but it's manageable. Once Roussel is activated, we have some salary to shed.

Please post it...

I'd like to see it. Thanks.