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Zigmund.Palffy

THE REBUILD IS OVER

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57 minutes ago, McIlhargey the Lesser said:

I think the rebuild is over.  Now it's a matter of just watching what Benning has built mature and turn into the juggernaut I really think it can be.  That doesn't mean that we should stop worrying about drafting or adding necessary pieces, it just means that the core is built and we have something around which to keep building.  It also means that we need not be quite so prudent about trading away picks and prospects to get us into win mode now (although this aspect is on a sliding scale on which caution against those types of future-mortgaging decisions recedes as we get closer to cup contender).

 

Two things inform my conclusions: That free agents want to play here; and that depth has been addressed.

 

Free agents want to play here

One year ago people bemoaned Benning's having overpaid for free agents.  We're talking about Schaller, Roussell and Beagle.  At the time, that's what it took to get players here.  Many a raging debate has taken place on these pages about whether it was worth it.  Fast forward one year of Petey and suddenly we have signed three of the top UFAs that came onto the market for great value and term.  Granted two of the three came 'home' to play and are arguably taking hometown discounts, but the third, Ferland, sees the potential.  And even the Myers and Benn signings are, I think, signs of the changing tides.  I would argue that most of the times players would pick playing for a winner rather than their home team and that signing here had as much to do with the potential of this team.

 

Another aspect of this is that even if you disagree with the free agent signings of last year because of term and value, you cannot deny that Benning and Green are looking for a particular type of player and that those players are the kinds that bleed culture and leadership and would lay it on the line for their team mates.  This began with Dorsett (another signing that many thought was an over payment) and continues through Roussell, Beagle and now Ferland.  Imagine if Dorsett was still a part of this team (one can dream).  These are the character guys that cup winners need and the kind of guys that build the culture in the locker room.  To my way of thinking it's this culture that these guys build that help with the appeal to free agents.  

 

Depth has been addressed

I think that depth has been one of the biggest reasons we can't quite make the playoffs the last few years.  Injuries happen and then we can't plug holes.  That injuries have been so prevalent has been another issue worth addressing (seems to have been addressed in spades this off season) but the stop gaps have fallen short and caused us to fall short.  However, it's been pretty well documented that the prospect cupboard is no longer bare in the last few years and we're finally starting to see the fruits of that.  Guys are finally pushing from below for at the very least a good look if not roster spots.  For the last several years plugs have been signed or traded for to keep us competitive because we didn't have anyone coming up from below and we were forced to try out using guys like Spooner, Gagne, etc... and other reclamation projects like Poulliot.  Guys coming up have had to fill in or have been given looks, but there weren't enough and they weren't ready.  Gaudette, though promising, was the best and still had some growing to do.  Most of them may still have some growing to do.  But that's ok, because now we've signed a number of top six guys.  This is contingent on the last point, that guys want to be here, but also trades.  Miller, Ferland, etc...   Bringing guys into the top six pushes the mediocre placeholders down the lineup, and because prospects are now starting to push from below it makes those middling guys fight to stay in or get squeezed out.  No more coasting Gagnes.  There is real competition and the chaff will be squeezed out.

 

For these reasons I think the rebuild is over.  But the team is dynamic and things happen and the goal of improving should never be far from Benning's mind. 

Rebuilding is never over. Every year we rebuild our roster and farm system like every other team. I'm so tired of people trying to talk about retooling a roster versus rebuilding. It's the same $^$^$^#@**@ thing. Every year, every team  drafts, make trades, sign free agents and develop their prospects. Some teams are better, others have a little more work to do. That's it.

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Rething is never 'done' - until you hoist a Cup.

 

And then you start again anyway.

 

The team may be ready to realistically intend to compete for a playoff spot, but 'man makes plans, and god just laughs'.

Things can still go either way - and no better example than the current SCC, who spent Christmas in the league's basement.

 

Stay the course.  You don't celebrate or consider your work done at this stage.

 

They've just begun filling out a roster as they want it to look.  Not finished.

 

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I wouldn’t say the rebuild is over as in we won’t  see the best version of this team for two or three years, but it definitely turned a corner and playoffs look like a definite possibility in our near future (I think this year).   I’d expect a year or two of bouncing in and out followed by a run of consecutive appearances.  Unexpected for sure, always figured next year would be the last big draft before we got out.  But I’m happy with how things worked out, might as well get on with it, we traded a first for a first in his prime.  Benning gets and A plus for his signings this summer, he made a plan went out and accomplished everything.  Second best D available and a rightie, upgrade with Benn on one of the best cap hits this off season, and now Ferland.  And all of them are bigger meaner versions of whom they replaced.   Plus Edler on a great term.  Great job.

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On 7/10/2019 at 11:50 AM, WalkWithElias40 said:

With the signing of Micheal Ferland, do you think the rebuild is over?

 

We have a team that can compete for a playoff spot now and we are fairly still young, we have added size, skill and strength throughout the lineup.

 

what do you guys think?

 

J.T Miller - Elias Pettersson - Brock Boeser

Micheal Ferland - Bo Horvat - Tanner Pearson

Sven Baertschi - Adam Gaudette - Jake Virtanen

Tyler Motte - Jay Beagle - Josh Leivo

 

LTIR: Antoine Roussel

 

SCRATCHES/TRADED: Schaller , Eriksson, Sutter 

 

Alex Edler - Chris Tanev 

Quinn Hughes - Tyler Myers

Jordie Benn - Troy Stecher

Oscar Fantenberg 

 

Jacob Markstrom

Thatcher Demko

 

No more being pushed around! 

The rebuild is constant now and well planned..  an attrition of players will rotate the “changing of the guard”.. always we will have sights on the future, and picking for it through that process.. gone are the days of too long a contract, too long a NTC.. players will be moved while they are still worth something.. this is “System”.   The Canuck Franchise has never had it.

Benning is the Godfather.

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9 hours ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

R-1632412-1450036916-6850.jpeg.jpg

L to R ... Miller, EP, QH, Horvat, BB....did I get it right?  The FAB Five...

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On ‎7‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 11:56 AM, PrinceGeorgeGoon said:

I'm curious to see what Jim does with Boeser, I'm worried were going to lose him. 

Also how will he move out a contract or two? We played pretty heavily for Miller given how Tampa was handcuffed. So now with our disadvantage in this negotiation I dont see how we dont give up a Virtanen or a baertschi/tanev and picks to unload a guy and bring back a lower pick.

We also might have to ship markstrom. 

You worry too much JB will have to move one guy and we are not loosing Boeser he will sign 

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On ‎7‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 12:45 PM, D-Money said:

Agree with this.

 

Although the team has taken a step forward on the roster, they need to continue to accumulate picks/prospects. Ideally, we won't need to trade them for roster help going forward.

 

I think with the lack of D depth in the system, they should continue to stock via the NCAA/euro route. Rafferty and Teves were a nice start, but I would have liked for them to also go for a more offensive puck-moving D, such as Oliwer Kaski (signed by Detroit), or Tony Sund (signed by San Jose). And with no D from this past draft, they should be the priorityI think you will see  in 2020.

I think you will see more D picked next year.  we should be a bubble team we are two good D away from being a contender for the play offs 

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On ‎7‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 2:33 PM, Alain Vigneault said:

And for anybody questioning my 3 decent player argument, use your heads and think about it.

 

Out of the bunch, Horvat is far and away the most reliably good player, no complaints there.  To date, Pettersson and Hughes have less than 90 games between them.  Hardly proven even if the future looks highly promising for both.  And when Boeser isn't scoring, he's useless on the ice.  Luckily for us, he scores pretty often so it compensates nicely in his favour.

 

Everybody else on the team are trenders, tweeners, and sidepieces.  Hardly a bunch of players that you couldn't easily find a replacement for.

Boeser's job is to score  as for the rest of the group  Pettersson on a redraft would go # 1 . Hughes 50 point D man , this year. the rest of the supporting cast would match up to a lot teams. Trenders, LOL this how you build a winner unless you are in love with Toronto or Tampa both are high end high skilled teams look where that got them in the playoffs. Its fine to win 60 games but in the Playoffs it about playing the right way and to play heavy. Skill helps but its how much fight the team has in them. Pettersson is high end skill , Horvat brings everything a coach could ask for, The team is very close. One more top 2 Dman and I would say look out

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On ‎7‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 5:31 PM, 48MPHSlapShot said:

I love the Ferland signing, but it really doesn't have anything to do with the rebuild, unless we move him for a pick or prospect down the line, which is entirely likely.

 

We still need to find our top pairing right pairing D to play with Hughes for the next decade or so. After that, yeah, I'll say the rebuild is over. 

One trade P Myers out of Phili  Trade Virtanen and Eliot for him . Done

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16 minutes ago, vannuck59 said:

Boeser's job is to score  as for the rest of the group  Pettersson on a redraft would go # 1 . Hughes 50 point D man , this year. the rest of the supporting cast would match up to a lot teams. Trenders, LOL this how you build a winner unless you are in love with Toronto or Tampa both are high end high skilled teams look where that got them in the playoffs. Its fine to win 60 games but in the Playoffs it about playing the right way and to play heavy. Skill helps but its how much fight the team has in them. Pettersson is high end skill , Horvat brings everything a coach could ask for, The team is very close. One more top 2 Dman and I would say look out

In a few years if everything works out we could have OJ, Woo and Tree in the lineup, Edler and Tanev out.   Hard to predict exactly how things will go but with those three plus Myers and Hughes we should be very solid at least, and only get better.    I think this team could surprise...definitely the most improved over any other team in our division and much, much harder to play against.  Ferland, Miller, JV, Myers and Horvat are better suited for the playoffs IMO the. the regular season ones given their games (Myers has 8 points and 4 goals in 16 games two years ago as a third stringer) and it wouldn’t surprise me if Boeser will be too.   

 

Third and maybe even second place isn’t out of the question this year...and the best thing is the team three years from now will be he start of the best version of this team.   Benning probably just saved his job, and I haven been this excited for the team since Luongo was traded for Bertuzzi.  

 

The start of the season couldn’t come sooner, Boeser is close to signing now and Benning on Monday talked to LE and during that conversation to the press later said with a Rousell going to long term we don’t have any cap issues now and won’t when he returns either.   He’s actively looking for a solution that works for the team and LE but warned any trade would involve a similar player coming back and that LE is still considered useful to the team and part of it (for now).    

 

Post Sedin plus two is starting, and like last season it looks like the team is going to take huge steps.   Most had us DFL or right after OTT .... not so sure they will make the same mistake this year when the final predictions come out.

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21 hours ago, TheCammer said:

Rebuilding is never over. Every year we rebuild our roster and farm system like every other team. I'm so tired of people trying to talk about retooling a roster versus rebuilding. It's the same $^$^$^#@**@ thing. Every year, every team  drafts, make trades, sign free agents and develop their prospects. Some teams are better, others have a little more work to do. That's it.

See how the Gillis regime ended as an example.  You either go “all in” or try and reload the core.  He did neither.

Edited by NewbieCanuckFan
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14 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Rebuild aborted, is closer to the truth, IMO. 

 

No complaints though. 

 

 

 

Glad you have come around, always enjoy your posts and have similar taste in players....was it perfectly done?  Not even close...accidentally or on purpose somehow Benning has done it.  Seems to be learning on the job and the big mistakes have become big learning lessons.   Glad he went after bigger bodies and guys that can do a little of everything.  Watched a video on what Ferland did to us recently ... if he can bring that on a regular basis come playoff time it will be awesome 

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It would be interesting to do a "forensic audit" on how the 2011 and 1994 teams were built.  How many top 10 picks that were actually drafted by Vancouver.  Was there any pick hoarding going on. How many years of basement dwelling went on within a 7-8 year window.  What were the pertinent trades.  Who were the latter round picks that really hit it out of the park. 

 

I suspect that in the 5 years leading up to each of those teams big runs, some fans who espouse the tank and collect picks theories would have not been happy with how those teams were being managed.

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1 minute ago, Darius said:

It would be interesting to do a "forensic audit" on how the 2011 and 1994 teams were built.  How many top 10 picks that were actually drafted by Vancouver.  Was there any pick hoarding going on. How many years of basement dwelling went on within a 7-8 year window.  What were the pertinent trades.  Who were the latter round picks that really hit it out of the park. 

 

I suspect that in the 5 years leading up to each of those teams big runs, some fans who espouse the tank and collect picks theories would have not been happy with how those teams were being managed.

I think the biggest difference between our current team and the teams of ‘82, ‘94, and 2011 is this team has an elite very young core.  This current team’s window for winning is going to be a decade, and not only a couple/three years like those others.  

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1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Glad you have come around, always enjoy your posts and have similar taste in players....was it perfectly done?  Not even close...accidentally or on purpose somehow Benning has done it.  Seems to be learning on the job and the big mistakes have become big learning lessons.   Glad he went after bigger bodies and guys that can do a little of everything.  Watched a video on what Ferland did to us recently ... if he can bring that on a regular basis come playoff time it will be awesome 

Wow!!

I think there will be some real disappointed fans this year. This team should be improved but it still has so many unknowns and holes.

If they are going to be a playoff team there is so many things that need to work out.

Sutter needs a solid year.

Baer needs to stay healthy.

Tanev needs to stay healthy.

Edler needs to stay healthy.

They need to fit Boeser in under the cap without losing anyone, unless it is LE.

Ferland has had several concussions. Can he maintain his physical game without getting hurt.

Boeser and Petey will need to progress to the next level. 60 to 70 points will not be enough.

Our goal tending will need to keep this club in every game and make up for the defensive weaknesses.

Bottom 6 scoring MUST improve or the year will be over real quick. Players like Jake and Gaudette will need to have breakout years.

Can Myers handle big front line minutes?

 

I still see us out of the playoffs.

 

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3 minutes ago, appleboy said:

Wow!!

I think there will be some real disappointed fans this year. This team should be improved but it still has so many unknowns and holes.

If they are going to be a playoff team there is so many things that need to work out.

Sutter needs a solid year.

Baer needs to stay healthy.

Tanev needs to stay healthy.

Edler needs to stay healthy.

They need to fit Boeser in under the cap without losing anyone, unless it is LE.

Ferland has had several concussions. Can he maintain his physical game without getting hurt.

Boeser and Petey will need to progress to the next level. 60 to 70 points will not be enough.

Our goal tending will need to keep this club in every game and make up for the defensive weaknesses.

Bottom 6 scoring MUST improve or the year will be over real quick. Players like Jake and Gaudette will need to have breakout years.

Can Myers handle big front line minutes?

 

I still see us out of the playoffs.

 

If everyone is injured as often as they were the last few years, which I fully expect, the difference is this year we have the depth to support it.   Then add Miller, Myers, Benn, Ferland and subtract all the guys they replaced.  This team is nothing like the one we iced last year, bigger, tougher, more skilled and deeper.   Yes it’s possible they miss the playoffs, if they do it won’t be by much...the best version is still three years out.  We have one of the best top nines in the division now, and one of the best bottom six too.   And a much better defense then we iced last year too...

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4 minutes ago, IBatch said:

If everyone is injured as often as they were the last few years, which I fully expect, the difference is this year we have the depth to support it.   Then add Miller, Myers, Benn, Ferland and subtract all the guys they replaced.  This team is nothing like the one we iced last year, bigger, tougher, more skilled and deeper.   Yes it’s possible they miss the playoffs, if they do it won’t be by much...the best version is still three years out.  We have one of the best top nines in the division now, and one of the best bottom six too.   And a much better defense then we iced last year too...

We don't have anyone close to the 100 point range. So not sure why you would say our front line is one of the best? We have some good young talent but they are a ways from being classed as one of the best.

Our bottom six is anemic.  Our bottom six is close to being the worst in the league.

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