Micheal Ferland | #79 | LW

[TNucks1]

1 hour ago, kloubek said:

Anyone who hasn't lived under a rock knows what Ferland can bring. He can change a playoff series. We've seen it.

 

But this on again off again has gotta stop. For his health and for the Canucks, he needs to get himself sorted or step away from the game. I respect him for trying, and will respect him more for protecting his future if need be.

 

But man, I did have high expectations of the signing. It hasn't worked out, but I maintain 8t was a solid acquisition on paper at least.

reminds me of sutters unlucky injurys during with us.

[Captain Canuck #12]

3 hours ago, TNucks1 said:

reminds me of sutters unlucky injurys during with us.

Except that Sutter had basically never been injured before he came to us.  Ferland, on the other hand, never really healed from the season-ending concussion that he had in Carolina (despite what he might have told Canucks doctors before he signed with us).

Edited December 10, 2020 by Captain Canuck #12

[TNucks1]

1 minute ago, Captain Canuck #12 said:

Except that Sutter had basically never been injured before he came to us.  Ferland, on the other hand, never really healed from the season-ending concussion that he had in Carolina (despite what he might have told Canucks doctors when he was signed).

yeah thats true always did have problems with concussions with the way he plays the game which sucks, really hope he sees the person crosby saw and gets it sorted out but really shouldnt be fighting anymore, which sucks big time.

[ruilin96]

13 hours ago, kloubek said:

Anyone who hasn't lived under a rock knows what Ferland can bring. He can change a playoff series. We've seen it.

 

But this on again off again has gotta stop. For his health and for the Canucks, he needs to get himself sorted or step away from the game. I respect him for trying, and will respect him more for protecting his future if need be.

 

But man, I did have high expectations of the signing. It hasn't worked out, but I maintain 8t was a solid acquisition on paper at least.

If he is healthy, him at 3.5 million is a steal. He can score 15-20 goals putting up 40-50 points while being a wrecking ball who could impact a playoff series. It is just an unfortunate situation and I hope he values his personal health first before consider playing again.

[rotiman187]

I wanted Ferland to succeed here as much as anyone else. I even thought he would have a bigger impact than JT Miller when they both joined the canucks. But i think it's really time for him to choose his health over hockey. Hes tried coming back 2/3 times in the past season and was back on the shelf soon after he stepped on the ice.  

[kloubek]

On 12/9/2020 at 9:43 PM, TNucks1 said:

reminds me of sutters unlucky injurys during with us.

Difference being that Sutter was an Ironman before coming to our team. Ferland was already damaged goods, and Benning took a calculated risk.

[canucklehead44]

I would love to see Ferland come back healthy. He is a massive steal at 3.5 million - his hockey skill alone makes him good value at that price not to mention he is one of those rare players who combines size and toughness with skill. Unfortunately, I think his discount was due to his health so it was a gamble that we lost. If he retires it is a moot point but I hope some sort of direction is taken. 

 

 

[Gurn]

13 minutes ago, canucklehead44 said:

. If he retires

3 years left at $3.5 mill. I doubt he retires, more likely he goes on long term for the next 3 seasons. Why walk away from $10.5 million if you don't have to?

[Fred65]

47 minutes ago, gurn said:

3 years left at $3.5 mill. I doubt he retires, more likely he goes on long term for the next 3 seasons. Why walk away from $10.5 million if you don't have to?

Just like Luongo could have  done, man he put it to the Canucks when he retired. Obviously LTI is the route to go except of course in Loungo's twisted mind  he get's his moeny no matter what

[Gurn]

27 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

Just like Luongo could have  done, man he put it to the Canucks when he retired. Obviously LTI is the route to go except of course in Loungo's twisted mind  he get's his moeny no matter what

Luongo played for Florida when he retired. He "owed" the Canucks nothing.

[Fred65]

6 hours ago, gurn said:

Luongo played for Florida when he retired. He "owed" the Canucks nothing.

True If he's gone on LTI he'd still have been paid the same but wouldn't be on any ones Cap. We owe him nothing either and that includes respect

[Baggins]

On 12/13/2020 at 7:24 PM, Fred65 said:

True If he's gone on LTI he'd still have been paid the same but wouldn't be on any ones Cap. We owe him nothing either and that includes respect

It's not as simple as just putting him on LTI as somebody has to pay his salary. Either the team is paying him or an insurance company. Why would the team pay him if they don't have to when he just wants to pack it in? If insured that company will want him checked to verify injury. They don't pay on policies out of the goodness of their heart. Even then, if the league has any doubts, they can send him to a league doctor to verify he can't play. Btw, even players on LTI count towards the cap. It just means a team can exceed the cap by that players salary.

[Elias Pettersson]

2 hours ago, Baggins said:

It's not as simple as just putting him on LTI as somebody has to pay his salary. Either the team is paying him or an insurance company. Why would the team pay him if they don't have to when he just wants to pack it in? If insured that company will want him checked to verify injury. They don't pay on policies out of the goodness of their heart. Even then, if the league has any doubts, they can send him to a league doctor to verify he can't play. Btw, even players on LTI count towards the cap. It just means a team can exceed the cap by that players salary.

The team that has the player under contract has to pay the full salary as all contracts are guaranteed.  If they want to take the player to court to find out if he actually has a career ending injury and should retire then they can take that step, but I don't recall any NHL team ever taking a player to court or forcing him to retire.  If the contract can be insured then insurance will cover up to 80% of the amount.  In Ferland's case we don't know for sure if insurance will cover as he already had a pre-existing condition, which is the reason he is currently not playing, so his contract may not be insurable.

 

In terms of LTIR, it technically counts against the cap but we can exceed the cap by the amount of Ferland's contract.  The only issue with the LTIR is potentially calling guys up and how bonuses are paid out at the end of the year.  It is not ideal to have someone on LTIR but in this case we have no choice for this year.  Next year if he's healthy he may fit under the cap if we can clear enough of the deadweight.

[Baggins]

2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

The team that has the player under contract has to pay the full salary as all contracts are guaranteed.  If they want to take the player to court to find out if he actually has a career ending injury and should retire then they can take that step, but I don't recall any NHL team ever taking a player to court or forcing him to retire.  If the contract can be insured then insurance will cover up to 80% of the amount.  In Ferland's case we don't know for sure if insurance will cover as he already had a pre-existing condition, which is the reason he is currently not playing, so his contract may not be insurable.

 

In terms of LTIR, it technically counts against the cap but we can exceed the cap by the amount of Ferland's contract.  The only issue with the LTIR is potentially calling guys up and how bonuses are paid out at the end of the year.  It is not ideal to have someone on LTIR but in this case we have no choice for this year.  Next year if he's healthy he may fit under the cap if we can clear enough of the deadweight.

Did I say somewhere teams don't have to pay a player under contract? But players are required to play for their salary or prove they can't to collect injury pay. As it's the team that places the player on LTIR they have every right to ensure the validity of the injury. Teams can't force a player to retire and I never said they could otherwise Eriksson would have been gone long ago. What I was referring to, that you bolded, was Fred's idea Luongo could have gone on LTIR and saved us the cap hit. But why would Florida, or an insurance company (if he was insured), pay a player without confirming his inability to play? Try that trick with WCB. And why would a team prefer to pay Luongo for LTI when he wants to retire which costs them nothing? What Fred was suggesting was beyond silly. With LTI the league also has the right to send the player to a league doctor if they feel the injury is questionable and/or there's cap or waiver shenanigans going on. It's extremely rare but they can. No courts are required by team, insurance company or the league. The player can't just say I'm going on LTIR. It doesn't work that way with any employer. Btw, I already stated LTIR counts against the cap and only means the cap can be exceeded by the players salary.

 

As to Ferland, not all players on a team are insured as it's quite expensive. Even if insured, companies typically exempt certain injuries if the player has a history of an injury type. So even if the Canucks insured him I highly doubt it would include concussions due his history. So it's highly likely the Canucks are on the hook for his salary playing or not. He could let the team off the hook by retiring but given how much money is on the table it's a rare breed that would be willing to do it when legitimately entitled to it due to injury..

[Elias Pettersson]

5 minutes ago, Baggins said:

Did I say somewhere teams don't have to pay a player under contract? But players are required to play for their salary or prove they can't to collect injury pay. As it's the team that places the player on LTIR they have every right to ensure the validity of the injury. Teams can't force a player to retire and I never said they could otherwise Eriksson would have been gone long ago. What I was referring to, that you bolded, was Fred's idea Luongo could have gone on LTIR and saved us the cap hit. But why would Florida, or an insurance company (if he was insured), pay a player without confirming his inability to play? Try that trick with WCB. And why would a team prefer to pay Luongo for LTI when he wants to retire which costs them nothing? What Fred was suggesting was beyond silly. With LTI the league also has the right to send the player to a league doctor if they feel the injury is questionable and/or there's cap or waiver shenanigans going on. It's extremely rare but they can. No courts are required by team, insurance company or the league. The player can't just say I'm going on LTIR. It doesn't work that way with any employer. Btw, I already stated LTIR counts against the cap and only means the cap can be exceeded by the players salary.

 

As to Ferland, not all players on a team are insured as it's quite expensive. Even if insured, companies typically exempt certain injuries if the player has a history of an injury type. So even if the Canucks insured him I highly doubt it would include concussions due his history. So it's highly likely the Canucks are on the hook for his salary playing or not. He could let the team off the hook by retiring but given how much money is on the table it's a rare breed that would be willing to do it when legitimately entitled to it due to injury..

I agree with you on the Luongo situation.  He actually did the right thing by retiring.  It wasn't his fault we got stuck with his dead money cap hit or Benning's for that matter, that is the league's fault for changing the rules and not allowing the Luongo contract to be grandfathered.  And by retiring he cost his team nothing and didn't take the money, so good for him.  Compare that to a guy like Pronger who was on LTIR for 6 years doing nothing but collecting his full contract.  Not only was Pronger a dirty player but he received millions in salary sitting at home. 

 

Benning is already on record as saying that Ferland isn't ready to play this year, so I would imagine he goes on LTIR for this season which would allow us to exceed the cap by up to $3.5 million to sign Hamonic or another defenceman.

[D-Money]

On 12/13/2020 at 1:52 PM, Fred65 said:

Just like Luongo could have  done, man he put it to the Canucks when he retired. Obviously LTI is the route to go except of course in Loungo's twisted mind  he get's his moeny no matter what

Luongo would have had to prepare for camp, see doctors/etc, and jump through hoops to prove he was injured - all to earn $3.618 million TOTAL over 3 years (minus agent fee, minus escrow, minus taxes, etc). It was much easier for him personally to retire, and the money wasn't an issue to a guy who made over $90 million in his career. It also did Florida a solid, not having to work around his LTIR for 3 years.

 

Ferland, on the other hand, will be more than doubling his career earnings over the next 3 years. He's also only 28, and wants to make absolutely sure before saying he can't play the game he lives anymore, not to mention all possibility of another contract. There's no way in hell he's retiring, and I suspect even if he hits another roadblock he may still try to come back yet again.

 

Hopefully though, if he does have more problems, he packs it in and goes on guaranteed LTIR next season, when cap starts becoming an even bigger issue. If he's on LTIR, that covers Podkolzin's salary, including pretty much all potential bonuses. That's an easy workaround too with a rookie - just paper Pod down to start the season, place Ferland on LTIR, then activate Pod. Can do that both seasons, since he won't be eligible for waivers.

Edited December 18, 2020 by D-Money

[mll]

4 hours ago, D-Money said:

Luongo would have had to prepare for camp, see doctors/etc, and jump through hoops to prove he was injured - all to earn $3.618 million TOTAL over 3 years (minus agent fee, minus escrow, minus taxes, etc). It was much easier for him personally to retire, and the money wasn't an issue to a guy who made over $90 million in his career. It also did Florida a solid, not having to work around his LTIR for 3 years.

 

Ferland, on the other hand, will be more than doubling his career earnings over the next 3 years. He's also only 28, and wants to make absolutely sure before saying he can't play the game he lives anymore, not to mention all possibility of another contract. There's no way in hell he's retiring, and I suspect even if he hits another roadblock he may still try to come back yet again.

 

Hopefully though, if he does have more problems, he packs it in and goes on guaranteed LTIR next season, when cap starts becoming an even bigger issue. If he's on LTIR, that covers Podkolzin's salary, including pretty much all potential bonuses. That's an easy workaround too with a rookie - just paper Pod down to start the season, place Ferland on LTIR, then activate Pod. Can do that both seasons, since he won't be eligible for waivers.

In LTIR performance bonuses have to also be covered in a recall.  If Podkolzin has a 925K AAV + 850K in bonus targets,  papering him down removes 925K from the cap but to recall him with Ferland on LTIR they will need to have an additional 850K in cap space to cover his performance bonus.  

[Baggins]

9 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I agree with you on the Luongo situation.  He actually did the right thing by retiring.  It wasn't his fault we got stuck with his dead money cap hit or Benning's for that matter, that is the league's fault for changing the rules and not allowing the Luongo contract to be grandfathered.  And by retiring he cost his team nothing and didn't take the money, so good for him.  Compare that to a guy like Pronger who was on LTIR for 6 years doing nothing but collecting his full contract.  Not only was Pronger a dirty player but he received millions in salary sitting at home. 

 

Benning is already on record as saying that Ferland isn't ready to play this year, so I would imagine he goes on LTIR for this season which would allow us to exceed the cap by up to $3.5 million to sign Hamonic or another defenceman.

Considering how little Ferland played last season, and how quickly he was re-injured when he tried, I do think his career may be done. You never know though. At one point I thought Crosby was likely done. Same with Mitchell. I thought LA really rolled the dice signing Mitchell. Almost nine months after his concussion he still wasn't cleared for contact when they signed him. LA won that roll of the dice. I didn't like the term of Ferland's contract because I felt they were rolling the dice on him. Well, we lost the roll of the dice. Maybe a season off will sort things out for Ferland.

[Elias Pettersson]

20 minutes ago, Baggins said:

Considering how little Ferland played last season, and how quickly he was re-injured when he tried, I do think his career may be done. You never know though. At one point I thought Crosby was likely done. Same with Mitchell. I thought LA really rolled the dice signing Mitchell. Almost nine months after his concussion he still wasn't cleared for contact when they signed him. LA won that roll of the dice. I didn't like the term of Ferland's contract because I felt they were rolling the dice on him. Well, we lost the roll of the dice. Maybe a season off will sort things out for Ferland.

Yeah I thought Mitchell was done as well.  Ferland should have taken the whole year off, but he obviously wanted a new contract so he got one and rolled the dice.  After that first fight and concussion he should never have come back as his contract was signed and he was secure.  That would have given him more than one year off to start 2021.  Too bad.  Hopefully if he takes this year off then he will be ready to go in 2021-2022.  He would have an entire year off.  We will see.

[Captain Canuck #12]

Weren't Ferland and Benning supposed to have had "the talk" by now?  Anyone heard any updates?