Markstrom vs Bobrovsky

[canuck73_3]

3 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

lights out?? he was avg in october .911 

trash in november .887

insane in december .943

trash in janurary .900

excellent in feb .930

avg in march and april .908 

 

he was at the league's avg or below 4 of the 7 months of the season.. hardly lights out... the league avg was .911

Yes, he was lights out. 

 

There were many games he got shelled because we were icing 1/3 of an AHL team. Many games we would have lost 6/7/8-2 without his play. 

 

SV% doesn't always tell the full story wadr. 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 23, 2019 by canuck73_3

[Hindustan Smyl]

1 hour ago, Arrow 1983 said:

I guess not this one just caught my eye well looking at the stats and I wanted to get your guys take on it. I really don't know how to call this one I'm really just going off of stats on this one.

My thought is this:

 

-Bobrovsky is a better goalie than Markstrom, but isn’t worth 10 million dollars.  History has shown and proven that teams playing their goalies that much money (to the point where said goalie is taking up too high a percentage of the cap space), never win cups.  Carey Price, Henrik Lundquist, etc. are good examples of this.   Bobrovsky is a great goalie, but he is now extremely overpaid.  It’s not a top 5 bad contract in the league, but it’s a terrible contract nonetheless.

 

-Markstrom should get 5 million at most, just like a Robin Lehner, etc.

[Arrow 1983]

10 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

do you actually watch the game or you just look at stats? Pettersson is no where near one of the worst forwards on the canucks defensively.. he actually hustles and backchecks literally every play.. meanwhile his linemates just floats around

Conner McDavid Hustles and Backchecks to but he still sucks at Defence and until McDavid and Draisaitl learn to play defence Edm can expect to stay out of the playoffs. Lesson to be learnt A teams best players play the most so they better learn defense or the team doesn't have success.

 

It is why Nathan MacKinnon is the best player in the NHL Currently

Edited July 23, 2019 by Arrow 1983

[Arrow 1983]

Just for fun NHL best players in the League Forwards

 

MacKinnon

Aho

Point 

Marner

Kucherov

Lindholm 

Bergeron 

Teravainen

O'Reilly

Radulov

 

[Where'd Luongo?]

1 hour ago, Arrow 1983 said:

Would you say he was a top goalie last year in the league

Yes

[Where'd Luongo?]

23 minutes ago, Hindustan Smyl said:

My thought is this:

 

-Bobrovsky is a better goalie than Markstrom, but isn’t worth 10 million dollars.  History has shown and proven that teams playing their goalies that much money (to the point where said goalie is taking up too high a percentage of the cap space), never win cups.  Carey Price, Henrik Lundquist, etc. are good examples of this.   Bobrovsky is a great goalie, but he is now extremely overpaid.  It’s not a top 5 bad contract in the league, but it’s a terrible contract nonetheless.

 

-Markstrom should get 5 million at most, just like a Robin Lehner, etc.

The only way Marky gets that is if he is better than last year, gets some shutouts (he never gets any), and gets some playoff experience. 

[wai_lai416]

13 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

Yes, he was lights out. 

 

There were many games he got shelled because we were icing 1/3 of an AHL team. Many games we would have lost 6/7/8-2 without his play. 

 

SV% doesn't always tell the full story wadr. 

 

 

 

 

lol sure but also shows that he can't steal you games.. our defence was actually pretty healthy up until xmas.. the only player that was lost for anything significant is Edler.. sure not the greatest defense.. but that's pretty much the same defense he had all the previous year.. still doesnt' explain why if he's playing with such a bad team like you said.. all of a sudden he's lights out. then next month with the same team he gets shelled.. then he's lights out again... so what you are saying is Markstrom is really the best goalie in the league coz if it was anyone else playing he woulda been shelled 6+ goals every night because we have 1/3 of an AHL team.. 

 

just fyi.. Demko was just as good in the games he played behind the same trash ahl team you are referring to.. he only played 9 games.. 2 of them he got blown out.. but then he had 5 games above .930 and 2 above .912.. behind the exact same ahl defense you are referring to.. so doesn't really justify your markstrom stats was poor sometimes coz he's playing behind 1/3rd of an ahl team.

[Where'd Luongo?]

227 games, 3 shutouts.

[wai_lai416]

30 minutes ago, Arrow 1983 said:

Conner McDavid Hustles and Backchecks to but he still sucks at Defence and until McDavid and Draisaitl learn to play defence Edm can expect to stay out of the playoffs. Lesson to be learnt A teams best players play the most so they better learn defense or the team doesn't have success.

 

It is why Nathan MacKinnon is the best player in the NHL Currently

you do know MacKinnon don't really backcheck right? the knock on Mackinnon every year is the lack of strong backcheck.. he makes up for it by always having the puck on his stick.. when the puck is on his stick.. that's playing defense.. same with what McDavid is doing.. but there's no point of arguing with you... since it's clear you don't actually watch the game and just look at a players +/- to determine they play great defense LOL.. that's like ur buddy here just said save percentage means nothing.. but whichever forward with the best +/- is the best player even though you don't even watch them play 

[Twilight Sparkle]

this is why i dont post in offseason. ugh

 

HERE'S ONE GUYS STATS VS ANOTHER GUYS STATS. CHANGE MY MIND

[Rubik]

3 hours ago, Arrow 1983 said:

I think you missed the point I'm talking todays value not past performance. his stats clearly show he is trending down at his age well Markstrom's is trending up 

Bobrovsky was born on the 20th of September, 1988, while Markstrom was 31th of January, 1990. So there's really not much of a difference there.

[D.B Cooper]

6 hours ago, Arrow 1983 said:

I was look at goalie stats of both these players, and in my opinion only 1 of 2 conclusion can be right. Bobrovsky's contract is either the worst in the league or Markstrom's is one of the best in the league and is worth 8 million plus when he hits UFA next season.

 

Bobrovsky                                                Markstrom

Save % 913                                             Save % 913

GAA  2.58                                                GAA   2.77

Wins 37                                                   Wins  28

loses 24                                                   Loses 23

OT loses 1                                              OT loses 9

GA  153                                                  GA   166

TOI 3556.40                                           TOI 3599.01

GP 62                                                     GP 60

SA 1756                                                 SA 1896

First, most would argue that CBJ  was a better team then Van and some could say that Bobrovsky was the deciding factor in CBJ making the playoffs. I would argue that CBJ made the playoffs despite Bobrovsky is the worst contract in the league and is only going to get worse. Or maybe Markstrom is better then anyone knows.

 

OT loses 1 to 9. If Markstrom had only 1 OT lose then his Goals against GA would be 166-8=158 that would mean Markstrom GA 158 to Bobrovsky 153 5 goal difference. Which means a much closer GAA.

 

These two are interesting comparables because their TOI stats are very similar however, Markstrom has 40 mins more played in 2 fewer games and facing 140 more shots per game then Bobrovsky in 2 fewer games well maintaining the same save %. What does this mean over all; first Markstrom was clearly more over worked and therefore, could be argued that he was much more tired as the game got closer to the end then was also forced to play more OT mins as the much more tired goalie. 2nd one could argue due to the more shots face the defence in front of Markstrom was clearly much weaker then that in front of Bobrovsky thus, facing harder and more challenging shots. 

 

So with a better defence in front of Markstrom, what kind of numbers could Markstrom post.

 

One further point, The Biggest difference between these 2 players is, Bobrovsky has post good seasons before, the last 3 years to be exact but on much better teams. Markstrom had his best season on the best team he has ever been on and it compared to Bobrovsky's season and that was on a very bad team. So next seasons team is suppose to be better, so it truly does beg the question if Markstrom has even a better season then last what is he worth. Is Markstrom then worth 8 million plus or does Bobrovsky have the worst contract in the league.

 

 

 

 

 

Comparing Marky and Bob is like comparing an old apple core on the ground to a fresh peach.  

Yeah they are both fruit, but you’d have to be stupid to go with the apple core. 

 

How many vezina trophies has Marky won?

[DrJockitch]

Summer on CDC.

Markstrom has improved every year and had a good end of season.  Ian Clark really seems to be helping him.

This is the first time I feel confident in coming into the season with Markstrom as starter.  He earned his way through the AHL and has improved every year.  Would I be terribly surprised though if he came back, gave up goals on first shots and left a softy or two in every game, no that is his history.

Bob is a multiple Vezina winner.  Overpaid, yes but frankly for what he returns Loui, Lucic and Neal (just to be topical) are all worse contracts and their are numerous more like them.  Like it or not, Bob is an elite player in his position.  Overpaying an elite player a couple of million is not as bad as overpaying scrubs like those above.  Now, in the last few years of that contract the story will likely be a lot different.

Edited July 23, 2019 by DrJockitch

[Drakrami]

Is this a joke? How is Bobrovsky being compared to Markstorm? Bobrovsky's had a long career of great goaltending. Markstorm had one decent year last year and the stats still looked bad on paper. 

 

I think it is pretty much fact that if your goalie is having a great season, your team wouldn't be a bottomfeeder.  Because your goalie gives you a chance to win every game like Carey Price for Montreal and Lundqvist for NYR a few years back. Well, we were bottomfeeders last season. 

 

How does Bobrovsky's contract being bad makes Markstorm's contract good? Are there just 2 goalies in the NHL? All the other goalies contracts all turns good because of Bobrovsky's contract?

Edited July 23, 2019 by Drakrami

[HorvatToBaertschi]

6 hours ago, Arrow 1983 said:

I love Petterson as a playmaker and goal score but he sucks on Defence actually the numbers show he was one of the worst forwards on the Canucks defensively 

You're actually insane if you think Pettersson isn't good on defense. The kid has Datsyuk-like defensive prowess and is constantly a threat for takeaways, not only that but he blocks shots (goal against Minny ring a bell?), has insane hand eye coordination and stops a lot of saucer passes (that one skill really blows my mind every time). The kid is 20 and is already a very decent 3 zone 2 way player. 

What you stated literally makes me think you've never watched him play. 

Edited July 23, 2019 by HorvatToBaertschi

[Attila Umbrus]

5 hours ago, Twilight Sparkle said:

this is why i dont post in offseason. ugh

 

HERE'S ONE GUYS STATS VS ANOTHER GUYS STATS. CHANGE MY MIND

I just come to bask in the stupidity of it all 

[timberz21]

6 hours ago, Arrow 1983 said:

Trending in statistical terms is meant by finding a pattern so a pattern or combination is proven when you have 3 or more. SO when I say trending up or down I'm looking at the last 3 years. And there is a pattern in both of these players one is trending up one is trending down. I just have to remember not every one has taken statistics and I need to explain my self further. In the laws of statistics. 

Looks at the career stats of Marty Brodeur, arguably the best goalie of all-time.  His stats didn't start at 0.900 and 2.50 GAA and finished at  0.930 and 2.00GAA.  They were up and down all the time over his career.

 

IMO, you gotta look past the season-end stats, especially for goalies, a lot of factor influences the final stats.   Injuries, quality of defense, higher or lower scoring across the league, rules changes, equipment changes, schedule, quality of opponent (division), coaching, system, team style, etc., I could go on and on.

 

You're looking for an answer to your question by simply looking at 3 years worth of SV% and GAA, when it's much more complex than that.  It's like deciding to buy a car solely by looking at the fuel efficiency data and ignoring everything else.

[Googlie]

9 hours ago, Arrow 1983 said:

I love Petterson as a playmaker and goal score but he sucks on Defence actually the numbers show he was one of the worst forwards on the Canucks defensively 

The numbers show what ?????

 

Of the 18 forwards who played in 10 or more games, Petey was:

 

3rd in blocked shots per game (behind Horvat and Motte)

2nd in Takeaways (behind Virtanen)

9th in hits

 

Hardly a slug defensively.

 

Yes, he did lead the team in giveaways, as can be expected from the top producing forward, with 52 (c.f.  MacKinnon leads Colorado with 64, Ovechkin leads Washington with 70, Malkin/Pittsburgh with 84, Pastrnak/Boston with 90, Brayden Schenn/StLouis with 42, etc)

 

The only deficiency was in face offs, where he was only marginally better than Gaudette (41% vs 40.4%) but well behind Beagle (56.2), Horvat (53.7), Sutter (48.5) and Granlund (42.8) (and marginally behind MacKinnon who was 43.7%)

 

So for someone claiming to ge a statistics guru, you obviously have done zero research on this and are just offering a persomal opinion as fact.  I have generally liked your well thought out and well presented posts, but this one I quoted falls into the "gut" category.

 

You can do better than that.

 

 

 

Edited July 23, 2019 by Googlie

[babych]

8 hours ago, Arrow 1983 said:

Trending in statistical terms is meant by finding a pattern so a pattern or combination is proven when you have 3 or more. SO when I say trending up or down I'm looking at the last 3 years. And there is a pattern in both of these players one is trending up one is trending down. I just have to remember not every one has taken statistics and I need to explain my self further. In the laws of statistics. 

I apologize to the rest of CDC, but I can't let this go.

 

I have taken statistics and the first bolded sentence is just plain wrong. Perhaps you misspoke, but no statistician would ever suggest that a pattern is proven when you have 3 data points. In fact, they would tend to never use words like proven.

 

If you truly have taken and understood statistics then you wouldn't have simply taken the last 3 years and ignored the other ones. Also, you would understand the danger of extrapolation with such limited data at hand.

 

Has Bob trended down the past 3 years? Certainly. Does that guarantee the pattern will continue? Certainly not.

[IBatch]

10 hours ago, Arrow 1983 said:

I guess not this one just caught my eye well looking at the stats and I wanted to get your guys take on it. I really don't know how to call this one I'm really just going off of stats on this one.

Goaltending is the most inconsistent position on the team by a long shot year in, year out.  Guys like Broduer, Roy, Hasek, Dryden, Parent etc were so good because they were so consistent... Luongo and Cujo and Beflour and Osgood should also be on that list.  However you could look at any of those goalies and find a year that is sub-par by their standards, and Bobrovsky despite his two Vezinas (lack of quality competition has something to do with that, what happened to Price?) is arguably the most consistent in the game right now.   Markstrom had a couple good-great months, and so did Bobrovsky last year, but he’s in a different league entirely.

 

For perspective Markstrom didn’t rank in the top 30 last year ... back-ups kept him out when the season started.  Will be interesting where he ranks now ... Bobs at or near the top, why he’s getting paid the big bucks...IF Markstrom wants half of that he’s going to have to have a great season.