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Markstrom vs Bobrovsky

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Arrow 1983

Markstrom vs Bobrovsky  

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10 hours ago, Arrow 1983 said:

so your argument is that Flo is paying not just for last years proformance but what he did while he was younger. I would argue his stats this year shows him trending down and fast and Markstrom trending up.

Goalies can play great hockey right until and some past 40.  So you never know what’s going to happen with Bob... don’t judge based on one year ... same with Markstrom.   Florida is much improved, goaltending had been a weak spot for them.   He could get 40 wins next year...

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I think the biggest difference for Markstrom last season was that, at least based on an eye test, his performance was significantly more consistent than it had ever been before.  Markstrom has always had moments of brilliance but, as we can probably all remember, he has also frequently let in goals that really made you question whether he had the focus to be a #1 goalie.  It was one of those things where one was always wondering which Markstrom would show up on any given night.  That kind of question isn't generally asked of goalies like Luongo, Price, Hasek, Brodeur, Roy, etc, even if they have off nights every now and then.

 

Last year Markstrom was steadily good and rose to brilliance when needed.  His stats ultimately weren't really that different from the previous year, but I suppose that may be what the numbers don't always show.  The frustrating thing about Markstrom in previous years was that it always seemed to be a mental thing for him.  It was clear that Markstrom had the physical ability to be a very good NHL goalie, but he was never able to do it consistently.  He seemed to "figure it out" last season however, so for his and the Canucks' sake, I hope that continues into this season.

 

Bobrovsky has been a solidly good goalie for a long stretch of time.  It's therefore hard to compare Markstrom's "value" to him at this point.  Bobrovsky's resume is a lot stronger.  Is $8M per year too much for a goalie?  Probably in today's cap constrained NHL, but maybe not for a goalie who has shown the ability to very good consistently.  It also depends on the term.  In addition to cap problems, Luongo's long term deal was also a gamble about how healthy he could stay and it's clear that didn't work out either.

 

Personally, if Markstrom can maintain at least last year's level of consistency for the next major stretch of his career, I can see him having a Dwayne Roloson like career.  Roloson didn't really solidify himself as a starting goalie in the NHL until his 30s but once he got going, he had a long stretch where he was a genuinely good starting goalie, even if he wasn't quite at the top tier.

 

I think Markstrom will net himself a decent contract after next season but I don't think he should get anywhere near Bobrovsky money.  If Markstrom does want Bobrovsky money, I could see a team offering it but shortening the term significantly, and that's only if Markstrom has himself a second consecutive good season.

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On 7/15/2019 at 7:59 PM, Arrow 1983 said:

This will be my last post till the season starts, So have a great summer.

 

Ask yourself what happen when Nylander signed his contract after the season started. It got prorated. It was great for Toronto and Nylander last season, because they had tons of cap and now Toronto has a smaller cap hit on Nylander. Pension plan Puppets has a great article on it essential by signing later in the season the first season was prorated making the last 6 seasons cap hit at just over 6.9 mill instead of 7.5 mill.  read this article to really understand what I'm talking about if you don't fully understand how contracts work in the NHL, https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2018/12/4/18122067/william-nylander-the-salary-cap-and-you-toronto-maple-leafs

 

Now ask yourself this question, what would happen if Boesers or even worst but not for us Marner got prorated or any other team close to the cap ceiling.

 

Lets just considers Marners contract first for a second. Lets say he holds out and then a 1/4 through the season he signs a contract for 11 mill per season just using simple round numbers for this calculation. 11million prorated = 11*1.25= 13.75 million let that settle in and ask yourself how does the great Dubas fit that into his Cap space LOL.

 

But Wait.....

 

How about Boeser, he has no arbitration rights and can not be offer sheeted, the Canucks hold all the power except lets play out a little scenario.

 

Boeser Hold out then signs a contract a 1/4 into the season what does that look like prorated. Lets say he signs for 4 years 6.5 mill, the first year would be prorated. 6.5*1.25=8.125 mill now Benning has to find $8.125 mill in cap space now.

 

This my friends just gave Boeser and his agent and ever other RFA and their agent on teams close to the cap ceiling Leverage.

 

 

Ahh Yes there it is. 

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12 hours ago, Arrow 1983 said:

I think you missed the point I'm talking todays value not past performance. his stats clearly show he is trending down at his age well Markstrom's is trending up 

I think the argument is as you've just stated BUT, one year of Marky is too hard to evaluate. The reality is, players in the NHL tend to get paid on past performance unless they are a young superstar. So while Bob may or may not be trending down (I think it will take another .913 year to make that assessment) and Marky may be trending up (It will take a better than .913 year to make that assessment this coming season), Bob's track record is why he got PAID....I do believe irrespective of the answer, Bob is overpaid, you don't want to tie up 10 mil in  a goalie as its been proven a very good goalie and great team can win a cup, and really all it takes is your very good goalie to get hot at the right time. Carey Price is superman in net, he hasn't been able to overcome weak defense for a decade. Tim Thomas was a decent, albeit unconventional goalie but its very easy to argue, his stats were a result of a phenomenal defense.  The days of Roy/Hasek/Brodeur single handedly winning the cup for their teams ended with their careers.

 

If Marky can put up .920 type numbers this year, I'd most certainly prefer him at $5.5 mil vs Bob at $10 mil

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This discussion is clearly ridiculous.  I don't know why there are 4 pages.

 

I would like to end it by saying I am impressed with the Canucks goaltending situation.  Markstrom is now a legit #1 (Arguing with this is futile as we all know that goalies can go up and down).  Demko is on the cusp of being a #1.  Kielly, Mcintyre, Bachman provide good competition for the position at the AHL level and might be good trade bait to get some picks during the year.  Dipietro is a couple of years away from a sniff, the depth allows him to take his time.  I can confidently say that this is the best depth and succession planning we have ever had.

Edited by Dixon Ward
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I get where the OP is going with this.

 

The thing is, Markstrom HAS to begin an ascension now forward and would have to get us close to the promised land over then next 2-3 seasons. He needs to asserts himself as a season long Vezina candidate.

 

A portion of his numbers last season were Vezina worthy. He needs to sustain and improve on those numbers.

 

It's not beyond the realm of possibility. Let's hope!!!

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17 hours ago, Dixon Ward said:

This discussion is clearly ridiculous.  I don't know why there are 4 pages.

 

I would like to end it by saying I am impressed with the Canucks goaltending situation.  Markstrom is now a legit #1 (Arguing with this is futile as we all know that goalies can go up and down).  Demko is on the cusp of being a #1.  Kielly, Mcintyre, Bachman provide good competition for the position at the AHL level and might be good trade bait to get some picks during the year.  Dipietro is a couple of years away from a sniff, the depth allows him to take his time.  I can confidently say that this is the best depth and succession planning we have ever had.

around 1990-91 was solid as well...

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13 hours ago, Davathor said:

Any contract that brings the top cop to your city is a good one. 

Goalie Bob is good, but he’s not Hasek.  (Who think is the GOAT)

Panthers don’t make the playoffs.  Bob is not that much of a difference maker.  Way overpaid.  

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On 7/23/2019 at 12:52 AM, Arrow 1983 said:

Just for fun NHL best players in the League Forwards

 

MacKinnon

Aho

Point 

Marner

Kucherov

Lindholm 

Bergeron 

Teravainen

O'Reilly

Radulov

 

This is why no one on here takes you seriously, and wishes you would stop posting.

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3 hours ago, captainhorvat said:

All i know is that florida gonna regret that contract in 2-3 seasons.

Unless they win a cup.  You just never know.  He’s the best of the best right now as Price got paid and got injured and fell down to earth.  Both these guys are way overpaid even considering there aren’t many goalies good year after year these days, with the exception of Bob, Rinne (who’s not capable of playing 60 games anymore) and MAF who’s only got a few years left in him too, and had never been a Vezina goalie either but still usually very good.  Florida is a team on the rise, and goaltending was one of their biggest problems last year, could be one of the most improved teams next season.   Vasil in TB looks to be the next great goalie, we’ll him and Gibson but he’s getting the early Luongo treatment at the moment.   Jones and Murray fell of a cliff ... maybe Demko, Hart or someone else will come in next (hopefully Demko). 

 

Edit:  as an aside Bob is right up there with McDavid given no state tax in take home pay...highest player(s) in the league..

Edited by IBatch
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