Pre-season Poll #1

[JM_]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Lou sees himself as a Panther.  His number is retired there, and that’s a good thing.  He deserves it, and he deserves getting into the HHOF.  IMO, I don’t think Loui should have his number retired here, or be put into the ring of honour.  Yes, he’s clearly the best goalie we ever had, but he spent more years as a player in Florida than he did for us.  His honours should be with them.  

how many players have their numbers retired on two teams? 

[JM_]

46 minutes ago, Yung1 said:

If Bure's up there, Luongo should be too.

how you figure that? Burr bled blue and green, he wanted to be here as long as possible. 

[Yung1]

Just now, Jimmy McGill said:

how you figure that? Burr bled blue and green, he wanted to be here as long as possible. 

Bure, as in Pavel.

[JM_]

1 minute ago, Yung1 said:

Bure, as in Pavel.

Fame, as in Hall of. 

[48MPHSlapShot]

No. Luo is probably the closest we have to someone that should go in the rafters, but still no. 

 

Our standards for players going into the rafters are already pretty low, as we've never won a cup. That's natural. But there's no reason to lower those standards even. We don't need to put someone's jersey in the rafters every handful of years. If there's currently nobody that deserves it, that's fine. Let's wait and hope that someone from the current crop can become that guy. It'll make it far more meaningful when Horvat or Pettersson's jerseys are eventually retired.

[Coconuts]

ROH tops. I love him as a person and he was one of my favourite players as a Canuck but no, I don't think we should retire his number. If he'd finished his career here perhaps, but he was more a Panther than a Canuck. 

 

I'm also really reluctant to have numbers retired. We've got too many as is imo. I was on the fence with Bure and probably would have put Naslund in the ROH too. I'm looking forward to retiring 22 and 33 though. 

[Yung1]

1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said:

Fame, as in Hall of. 

4th all-time in goalie wins. Lu will be there too.

Edit: 3rd all time*

Edited August 13, 2019 by Yung1

[shiznak]

Should his numbers be retired? Probably not.

 

Is it worthy enough to be retired? Definitely.

 

I don’t really care for much of retiring numbers. As long as we don’t go full Leafs and Habs and retire a number, every year.

[Alflives]

1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said:

how many players have their numbers retired on two teams? 

Gretzky?  

[-AJ-]

I don't think his tenure with Vancouver was long enough. Same reason I don't feel Bure's number should've been retired. Regardless, I don't feel too strongly about either opinion, so I wouldn't be overly irritated if it was retired.

[-AJ-]

3 hours ago, shiznak said:

Should his numbers be retired? Probably not.

 

Is it worthy enough to be retired? Definitely.

 

I don’t really care for much of retiring numbers. As long as we don’t go full Leafs and Habs and retire a number, every year.

Technically, the Leafs only retired 2 numbers prior to 2016 and chose to simply "honour" numbers. In 2016, they decided to change the policy and retired 13 numbers for 18 different players.

[-AJ-]

9 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

no, he's not going in as a Canuck. 

 

5 hours ago, Alflives said:

Lou sees himself as a Panther.  His number is retired there, and that’s a good thing.  He deserves it, and he deserves getting into the HHOF.  IMO, I don’t think Loui should have his number retired here, or be put into the ring of honour.  Yes, he’s clearly the best goalie we ever had, but he spent more years as a player in Florida than he did for us.  His honours should be with them.  

This concept is foreign to me, but as I understand it, the misconception comes from other sports. In the HHOF, players don't go in with any specific affiliation. Luongo could go in as a potato for all the HHOF cares. At the end of the day, he goes in as a great goaltender and that's all they care about--team affiliation doesn't apply in this case and is a non-factor.

[-AJ-]

4 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

how many players have their numbers retired on two teams? 

Officially, I believe both Messier and Gretzky have had their numbers retired by two teams. Obviously, Gretzky's is retired league-wide, but the Kings have had an official ceremony and have it hanging from the rafters. Messier's was obviously with the Oilers and the Rangers. Red Kelly also had his #4 retired by both the Leafs and the Red Wings and Bourque's No. 77 was retired by the Avalanche in addition to the Bruins. There may be more, but those are the ones off the top of my head.

[-AJ-]

10 hours ago, theo5789 said:

 

I'm on the fence. Originally I thought this way, but then what about Bure? He played 7 years here and 5 elsewhere, but likely would've been more elsewhere had his career not been cut short due to injuries. Bure did change the landscape here during his time here, but Luongo is arguably the best goaltender we've ever had to date (at least the records suggest so).

 

I generally agree with what you're both saying about careers, but the Bure thing is throwing me off. Do you think someone like Edler should have his number retired after likely playing his entire career here? I think this might be far more polarizing than the idea of Luongo getting his number retired here. Luongo has a leg up in that while he didn't win a Cup here (no one has so far), he did win an Olympic Gold on home ice here which doesn't reflect on the Canucks, but it was done in Rogers, so curious if that would have any bearing on the decision too.

I was just thinking about this today actually. I'm of the opinion that Bure and Luongo are in the same boat with their tenures as Canucks. Both were among the top 2 or 3 in the league in their positions during their primes in Vancouver, but neither spent very long stretches in Vancouver as Canucks, so in my mind, neither should have their numbers retired (though obviously Bure's is now, so that could add a wrench into the discussion).

 

With regards to the Edler suggestion, I think that once the level of player we're talking about drops off, they'd need a very substantially long tenure with a team to merit jersey retirement. Edler has had a strong career and is arguably the greatest Canuck defenseman ever, but he's still definitely a step below guys like the twins and Naslund, for example. I'd say Edler would need at least around 1200 games as a Canuck to even be considered for jersey retirement at this point, simply because he isn't at the level of most guys who get their jersey's retired. (Smyl could be argued as an exception, but his intangibles like leadership I think boosted his resume).

[JM_]

25 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

 

This concept is foreign to me, but as I understand it, the misconception comes from other sports. In the HHOF, players don't go in with any specific affiliation. Luongo could go in as a potato for all the HHOF cares. At the end of the day, he goes in as a great goaltender and that's all they care about--team affiliation doesn't apply in this case and is a non-factor.

huh, I wonder where I got the idea from? thanks for the clarification. 

[-AJ-]

1 minute ago, Jimmy McGill said:

huh, I wonder where I got the idea from? thanks for the clarification. 

I think baseball does it and some other big American sports might as well.

[theo5789]

25 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

I was just thinking about this today actually. I'm of the opinion that Bure and Luongo are in the same boat with their tenures as Canucks. Both were among the top 2 or 3 in the league in their positions during their primes in Vancouver, but neither spent very long stretches in Vancouver as Canucks, so in my mind, neither should have their numbers retired (though obviously Bure's is now, so that could add a wrench into the discussion).

 

With regards to the Edler suggestion, I think that once the level of player we're talking about drops off, they'd need a very substantially long tenure with a team to merit jersey retirement. Edler has had a strong career and is arguably the greatest Canuck defenseman ever, but he's still definitely a step below guys like the twins and Naslund, for example. I'd say Edler would need at least around 1200 games as a Canuck to even be considered for jersey retirement at this point, simply because he isn't at the level of most guys who get their jersey's retired. (Smyl could be argued as an exception, but his intangibles like leadership I think boosted his resume).

Well that's the thing, I was thinking that if Bure is there, there's no reason why Luongo shouldn't be. Bure electrified crowds and really changed the landscape of the Canucks. Luongo wasn't quite as flashy, but he certainly electrified crowds (and had his own chant). I think many simply have the memory of the finals (and his shootout record). Luongo has been the captain of the Canucks (rightfully or not and it's a rare situation). I think I would lean towards retiring his number, but then I look at his stats and he doesn't blow away Kirk McLean either. I think had Luongo stayed a couple more seasons and padded his numbers that it would've been a no brainer, but I'm still on the fence about it and really don't have an answer to whether he should have his jersey retired or not.

 

I only brought up Edler simply in response to those that were saying that Luongo didn't play enough of his career here to warrant a jersey retirement. I agree that Edler would probably need to find new legs in the next couple of seasons and stretch out his career if he is to get his number retired. After this contract is up, he's likely going to be 4th in games played as a Canuck and already leads Canucks dmen in all time points so he would only be adding to that lead, but not sure if he survives being re-newed (depends on the progress of Hughes and Juolevi). He might extend his career with another team though if he doesn't.

[McBackup]

No. RoH was made for guys like Lu. 

[McBackup]

25 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

Well that's the thing, I was thinking that if Bure is there, there's no reason why Luongo shouldn't be. Bure electrified crowds and really changed the landscape of the Canucks. Luongo wasn't quite as flashy, but he certainly electrified crowds (and had his own chant). I think many simply have the memory of the finals (and his shootout record). Luongo has been the captain of the Canucks (rightfully or not and it's a rare situation). I think I would lean towards retiring his number, but then I look at his stats and he doesn't blow away Kirk McLean either. I think had Luongo stayed a couple more seasons and padded his numbers that it would've been a no brainer, but I'm still on the fence about it and really don't have an answer to whether he should have his jersey retired or not.

 

I only brought up Edler simply in response to those that were saying that Luongo didn't play enough of his career here to warrant a jersey retirement. I agree that Edler would probably need to find new legs in the next couple of seasons and stretch out his career if he is to get his number retired. After this contract is up, he's likely going to be 4th in games played as a Canuck and already leads Canucks dmen in all time points so he would only be adding to that lead, but not sure if he survives being re-newed (depends on the progress of Hughes and Juolevi). He might extend his career with another team though if he doesn't.

Bure shouldn't be there. 

[King Heffy]

1 hour ago, -AJ- said:

Officially, I believe both Messier and Gretzky have had their numbers retired by two teams. Obviously, Gretzky's is retired league-wide, but the Kings have had an official ceremony and have it hanging from the rafters. Messier's was obviously with the Oilers and the Rangers. Red Kelly also had his #4 retired by both the Leafs and the Red Wings and Bourque's No. 77 was retired by the Avalanche in addition to the Bruins. There may be more, but those are the ones off the top of my head.

Tim Horton with Toronto and Buffalo, Niedermeyer with New Jersey and Anaheim, Roy with Montreal and Colorado

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Hockey_League_retired_numbers

 

Seeing that list of unofficially retired numbers still makes my blood boil.