Common Ground - Benning and where the team is at today

[5nothincanucksohno]

Posted something similar in another thread but am interested to see how far the divide actually is regarding Benning i.e. I want to attempt to better separate opinions on how the team got to where it is (i.e. Benning's process) and where the team is actually at today (minus the baggage of the last four years). 

 

Statement 1: Most would say that after the first round loss to Calgary in 2015, a rebuild was in the cards. The team was older and there were little to no viable prospects in the system. That was Benning's first year and that is the situation he inherited.

 

Q1: Is the above statement fair?

 

Statement 2: Given the inherited situation, if the team had decided to full out tank I believe it would have taken at least four years to get to this point (i.e. four years of no playoffs). 

 

Q2: Is the above statement fair? And the Leafs can't be used as a counter argument b/c they had almost 9+ years of missing the playoffs before they chose to start their tank-rebuild, as opposed to having consistent success like the Canucks - i.e. TO had higher picks, mid-twenty-year-old players already on the NHL roster, more legit prospects to speed up the tank-rebuild, etc.

 

Statement 3: In 2015, if you had told me that in four years the team would have the core it does and be in the situation it is, I would have taken it. The process hasn't always been ideal but the team has a legit young core, some solid veteran pieces, some up-and-coming prospects in the system, and solid goaltending.

 

Q3: Is the above statement fair?

 

Statement 4: If you look at most of the cup winners over last decade, they have had two key forwards, a stud offensive d-man, and competent goaltending. Chicago with Toews/Kane/Keith, Pit with Crosby/Malkin/Letang, LA with Kopitar/Carter/Doughty, etc. To me, EP40, Bo/Boeser, and Hughes have the drive and skill to potentially fall into that category. They still need to prove it but I feel the core has the potential.

 

Q4: Is the above statement fair?

 

My conclusion: why not extend the core's window to win by adding solid support pieces? The process wasn't always pretty but Benning did get the team to this result. The challenge now is turning this group of players into a team that can get into the playoffs and be flexible enough to win playoff rounds in multiple ways. The next three years are crucial and I think Benning has earned the right to see it through.

 

Hopefully Benning continues to learn/improve and more and more fans begin pushing in the same direction (i.e. remain critical where needed but more positive about the direction and less focused on the past).

[aGENT]

Agree or not on the route we took to get here, anyone still arguing that the destination isn't in fact on the horizon, is being wilfully obtuse/too entrenched in their narrative to see reality.

[Nucker 67]

When Benning came in, in 2014, he had an aging core and almost no top prospects. It's remarkable what he's done in 5 years. It's not his fault they were a bottom feeder for the last few years, that's just part of rebuilding. I believe he didn't have a very good first Draft (aside from Demko and Tryamkin), but he's gotten better every year and now the Canucks have some great top prospects developing and some will even be playing with the team this year. When I think about some other teams that have been flailing away with little success year after year, I believe Benning  may be one of the better GMs out there today. He's turned this team around in a hurry.

[goalie13]

Based on the recent poll where nearly 90% of CDC was in favour of the extension, I would say there's already plenty of common ground.

 

26 minutes ago, 5nothincanucksohno said:

My conclusion: why not extend the core's window to win by adding solid support pieces?

Isn't that exactly what Benning did by adding Benn, Myers, Ferland, etc?

[King Heffy]

53 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

When Benning came in, in 2014, he had an aging core and almost no top prospects. It's remarkable what he's done in 5 years. It's not his fault they were a bottom feeder for the last few years, that's just part of rebuilding. I believe he didn't have a very good first Draft (aside from Demko and Tryamkin), but he's gotten better every year and now the Canucks have some great top prospects developing and some will even be playing with the team this year. When I think about some other teams that have been flailing away with little success year after year, I believe Benning  may be one of the better GMs out there today. He's turned this team around in a hurry.

His first draft was weakest because he hadn't fixed the scouting system and promoted Brackett yet.  He still managed to do a lot better than the idiot he replaced by getting Demko and Tryamkin, plus picking actual NHLers in the first round.  This team has done a complete 180 on its drafting; if you take out Benning's first rounders, the results are still better than the trash Gillis selected.

[Pears]

I do agree we probably would be a little further ahead if Aquilini wasn’t greedy and held on to an aging core for too long. With that said you really have to be blind and/or clueless to not give credit for what Benning’s done. Only one legitimate NHL prospect when he started and now our future is looking brighter than ever. 

[mikeyman109]

Above statements are all true and Benning has done a  good job by drafting core pieces and trying to assemble support pieces around them.

What we can agree on is this team should be better than last year and injuries aside should challenge for a playoff spot at least.

[Solinar]

Okay, lets go point by point

 

Statement 1:  I agree with the assessment that the old core deserved a kick at the can, and did make the playoffs.  But they showed that that was all they had in the tank, and that a rebuild was in order.  There have been arguments on the semantics of the wording, but what we got was a rebuild.  Did it go the way other teams have, no.  But I'd say as of the moment, we are more competitive than many other teams rebuilding at the same point in the rebuild.  Hell, Edmonton, and Toronto, both had to rebuild from their rebuilds, and Buffalo is starting to look like it may happen...after a miserable time of it.  I'd take our last season over Edmonton's and Buffalo's all the damn time.

 

Statement 2:  4 years of downtime and the possibility of playoffs this year or next, with a solid core, consisting of ? marks, but reasonably solid assumptions to those question marks.  We have a potential top pairing d-man, we have a first line centre, a sniper winger, and solid #2 centreman, and for the first time, we have wingers for two top lines!!  Holy $&!#, could you imagine if Kesler had had wingers?  

 

Statement 3:  The process hasn't been ideal.  There have been some signings that were ....questionable.  But sports is a gamble, and rather have a guy willing to gamble and crap out, but solidly moves forward nonetheless, than a coward who only shoots for the sure thing, missing all the potentials along the way.  And yet we still have a solid core to build around, and some top tier pieces still on the way.

 

Statement 4:  I agree with the assessment that we have elite talent in the key positions needed to win a cup.  It is surrounding that talent with the proper depth and skill to make it all the way.  The team has to prove it, but realistically, we are 2 points/month away from the playoffs.  We were in a lot of the games we lost last year, we added goals, we added defensive ability, and we just need players to now match what they did last year.  If they can match and improve on their seasons from last year, we're rocking.  

 

  Benning has done a fair job, and although he makes me want to tear out my hair with some of his gambles, he is a shrewd judge of who he has in the system for the most part.  And when it comes to trading away prospects that are burn outs....he gets fair value.  Shinkaruk for Granlund anyone?  And knowing when to cut ties with a gamble is a good quality in and of itself.  Yes, he sometimes digs his own hole, but you can see where he's going in the big picture.  I think a lot of those gambles will be of the past, as the team is now solidly set up to move forward.  No mass resets, but tinkering around the edges will leave the team with time to properly develop.  Add to that, he solidly makes improvements to things one step at a time, from the drafting, to the product on the ice, now to player development.  This is going to be a big year, and regardless of his extension, if the Comets don't develop, or if the team falls flat, I'm sure Aqualini will cut bait with Jimbo.  But I think a lot of the organisations problems have been dealt with fairly, and this year we'll actually see improvements in all areas.

Edited August 18, 2019 by Solinar
Spelling/Addition

[Nuxfanabroad]

Yeah, it's all pretty agreeable. As oft-stated, I like the theory that ownership were a few chess moves ahead, & knew some lousy, bottom-dredging yrs were virtually unavoidable. Doesn't really matter either way..we're well along the path we needed to tread.

 

JB has probably surpassed their best hopes/expectations with his drafting. He set the stage with vision. Nice to see him get a few more, bringing this show to fruition.

 

Oh, & cautionary-Trots & red light-WD were really nice tank commanders..we had to bide time(at intersection) waiting for the switch to Green.

Edited August 18, 2019 by Nuxfanabroad

[Qwags]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

Agree or not on the route we took to get here, anyone still arguing that the destination isn't in fact on the horizon, is being wilfully obtuse/too entrenched in their narrative to see reality.

If there's a silver lining for the fire Benning crowd, it's that whoever replaces him is in a much better position then Benning was when he first got the job.

 

 

[JeremyCuddles]

1 hour ago, goalie13 said:

Based on the recent poll where nearly 90% of CDC was in favour of the extension, I would say there's already plenty of common ground.

Twitter fans are a bit more split so I guess that means there is uncommon ground. Lol. Even if you included their vote with ours it still heavily favours fans liking the extension overall. 

[6string]

When Benning was hired many of us said he needed two to three years to mop up after Gillis along with having nothing in the cupboard.

 

We were patient and it appears we are correct, the cupboards are loaded and the mops are back in the closet.

[5nothincanucksohno]

3 hours ago, goalie13 said:

Based on the recent poll where nearly 90% of CDC was in favour of the extension, I would say there's already plenty of common ground.

 

Isn't that exactly what Benning did by adding Benn, Myers, Ferland, etc?

Agreed, that is exactly what Benning did and I agree with the moves. Question was more geared to people who seem resigned to ignoring the current team because they are so focused on not liking the process. Maybe this is the wrong forum to present this post as the feelings regarding Benning's extension are split elsewhere (e.g. sportsnet poll was 50/50 basically). I like what Benning has done and think the extension was warranted.

 

 

Edited August 18, 2019 by 5nothincanucksohno

[captainhorvat]

The canucks are doing just fine just look at that oilers organization. Thr rebuild needs a rebuild ffs.

[BrockBoester]

4 hours ago, aGENT said:

Agree or not on the route we took to get here, anyone still arguing that the destination isn't in fact on the horizon, is being wilfully obtuse/too entrenched in their narrative to see reality.

This bro said exactly what I was going to say, albeit slightly more eloquently.

IN JB WE TRUST

[Chickenspear]

2 hours ago, N7Nucks said:

Twitter fans are a bit more split so I guess that means there is uncommon ground. Lol. Even if you included their vote with ours it still heavily favours fans liking the extension overall. 

Those twitter fans are looking at the results of the last 4 years though, unlike those on this site who debate extensively on every little aspect of this team (and the rest of the league),  so I say they only count as a half person each. #FakeFans

[189lb enforcers?]

If Tree comes back, look out. JB could have something for the playoffs. 

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

If Tree comes back, look out. JB could have something for the playoffs. 

yeah that could be a very interesting development. You have to know one of Edler or Tanev will be out and there will be room for Nik 

[DADDYROCK]

If the Canucks would have any luck at the "LOTTO DRAFT" we could have even more talent than we have now.

An unprecedented 4 years in a row we went in the wrong direction at the draft,Edmonton and New Jersey have been extra lucky,it must be our turn for some luck.

 

The thing with Mr. Benning is in order to trade some players and get better you need another team to want them, this has been very difficult for our GM,because our talent level has been suspect for a few years now,but we have some people on CDC thinking this should be an easy process,however it could not be further from the truth.

 

We have rebuilt at a good pace and soon these players will all gel together and play as a quality team and a legitimate contender for our first Stanley Cup and win it all for the Canuck Nation and the whole Province of British Columbia.Hooray!

 

[the grinder]

8 hours ago, 5nothincanucksohno said:

Posted something similar in another thread but am interested to see how far the divide actually is regarding Benning i.e. I want to attempt to better separate opinions on how the team got to where it is (i.e. Benning's process) and where the team is actually at today (minus the baggage of the last four years). 

 

Statement 1: Most would say that after the first round loss to Calgary in 2015, a rebuild was in the cards. The team was older and there were little to no viable prospects in the system. That was Benning's first year and that is the situation he inherited.

 

Q1: Is the above statement fair?

 

Statement 2: Given the inherited situation, if the team had decided to full out tank I believe it would have taken at least four years to get to this point (i.e. four years of no playoffs). 

 

Q2: Is the above statement fair? And the Leafs can't be used as a counter argument b/c they had almost 9+ years of missing the playoffs before they chose to start their tank-rebuild, as opposed to having consistent success like the Canucks - i.e. TO had higher picks, mid-twenty-year-old players already on the NHL roster, more legit prospects to speed up the tank-rebuild, etc.

 

Statement 3: In 2015, if you had told me that in four years the team would have the core it does and be in the situation it is, I would have taken it. The process hasn't always been ideal but the team has a legit young core, some solid veteran pieces, some up-and-coming prospects in the system, and solid goaltending.

 

Q3: Is the above statement fair?

 

Statement 4: If you look at most of the cup winners over last decade, they have had two key forwards, a stud offensive d-man, and competent goaltending. Chicago with Toews/Kane/Keith, Pit with Crosby/Malkin/Letang, LA with Kopitar/Carter/Doughty, etc. To me, EP40, Bo/Boeser, and Hughes have the drive and skill to potentially fall into that category. They still need to prove it but I feel the core has the potential.

 

Q4: Is the above statement fair?

 

My conclusion: why not extend the core's window to win by adding solid support pieces? The process wasn't always pretty but Benning did get the team to this result. The challenge now is turning this group of players into a team that can get into the playoffs and be flexible enough to win playoff rounds in multiple ways. The next three years are crucial and I think Benning has earned the right to see it through.

 

Hopefully Benning continues to learn/improve and more and more fans begin pushing in the same direction (i.e. remain critical where needed but more positive about the direction and less focused on the past).

q1  is very fair

 

   q2  is fair as well    as we all  know tanking doesn't always work  you can be dead last and be picking 4th  im sure glad the scouting staff is on it we had 2 steals in EP and hughes, god know where we would be if we didn't pick those 2 

 

q2 very fair  yes it hasn't been easy  but jim has done a fair  job  we have a good mix of vets. middle guys ,young guns  and a pipeline of youth in various stages of devolopement

 

q4  yes cup contenders do have that   like ep boesser and hughes   but you can add Horvat to that list , he is toews/ kopitar of this team 

 

but with that being said   we are going in the right direction    on wards and upwards

Edited August 19, 2019 by the grinder