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VIC_CITY

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2 minutes ago, mikeyman109 said:

I dont think Demko gets us a first back either.

Not today. But if things go right for him this year, I definitely think he does. He's like a young Cory Schneider. He just needs to show it at the NHL level.

 

2 minutes ago, mikeyman109 said:

I would trade Markstrom long before I trade Demko though. All play being equal.

Right, but unfortunately they aren't equal. Markstrom's contract is expiring, so we have until July 1st to decide his fate. If we make the playoffs, lose our 1st round pick and want to trade Demko to recoup it, we have until the draft in June. So there's a few things at play. If we're a playoff team, we can't trade Markstrom at the deadline. The only way I see Markstrom traded is if he and the Canucks both had bad years and Demko was clearly the better goalie.

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1 minute ago, VIC_CITY said:

Not today. But if things go right for him this year, I definitely think he does. He's like a young Cory Schneider. He just needs to show it at the NHL level.

 

Right, but unfortunately they aren't equal. Markstrom's contract is expiring, so we have until July 1st to decide his fate. If we make the playoffs, lose our 1st round pick and want to trade Demko to recoup it, we have until the draft in June. So there's a few things at play. If we're a playoff team, we can't trade Markstrom at the deadline. The only way I see Markstrom traded is if he and the Canucks both had bad years and Demko was clearly the better goalie.

I could definitely see a scenario where Marky is traded before the deadline.  Demko IMO is going to take the starter role.  We trade Marky for a pick (not getting a first) and bring in an experienced backup for Demko. 

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3 minutes ago, VIC_CITY said:

Not today. But if things go right for him this year, I definitely think he does. He's like a young Cory Schneider. He just needs to show it at the NHL level.

 

Right, but unfortunately they aren't equal. Markstrom's contract is expiring, so we have until July 1st to decide his fate. If we make the playoffs, lose our 1st round pick and want to trade Demko to recoup it, we have until the draft in June. So there's a few things at play. If we're a playoff team, we can't trade Markstrom at the deadline. The only way I see Markstrom traded is if he and the Canucks both had bad years and Demko was clearly the better goalie.

Like many players just because we sign Marky to a contract doesnt me an we keep him in the organization. If Demko plays well this season and has the higher ceiling they may sign Markstrom and expose him in the ED. The only way I see the Canucks trading Demko is they feel Dipietro is ready to step in as a back up to Markstrom. Otherwise he stays with the Canucks long term. I dont see the Canucks trading Demko at this point in his career.

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16 minutes ago, mikeyman109 said:

Like many players just because we sign Marky to a contract doesnt me an we keep him in the organization. If Demko plays well this season and has the higher ceiling they may sign Markstrom and expose him in the ED. The only way I see the Canucks trading Demko is they feel Dipietro is ready to step in as a back up to Markstrom. Otherwise he stays with the Canucks long term. I dont see the Canucks trading Demko at this point in his career.

If Markstrom is as good as he was last year, do you think he'll sign a contract without ED protection? I doubt it.

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1 hour ago, VIC_CITY said:

I guess I just don't see Benning trading Markstrom if we're a playoff team. If anything I think he'd be looking to add to the team by the trade deadline. I also don't see him letting Markstrom walk for nothing in free agency. It all comes down to how both goalies perform this year. But I think as soon Marky gets that extension, Demko's days are numbered. 

Agree completely! I was going to post this earlier. If we're a playoff team, Benning will absolutely go with experience and lock Markstrom up. 

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1 hour ago, VIC_CITY said:

If Markstrom is as good as he was last year, do you think he'll sign a contract without ED protection? I doubt it.

No way is going to earn a  NMC from us.   Even if he’s a Vezina finalist.  JB can re-sign him at any time during the year too - who knows what will happen exactly.   Maybe a NTC will be included but even that could be limited to allow management the freedom to find a trading partner later.  We have salary going off the books next year so we could afford a modest raise without it affecting our current cap structure and definitely could see us changing tactics and switching to tank mode if things don’t go well this season (Doubt it) and selling him as a rental at the TDL if some teams need to shore up their goaltending.   It’s a long season and a lot could happen - including Markstrom not liking whatever is been offered and going to free agency and signing somewhere else and we get nothing back for him - it happens all the time and won’t be the end of the world.  One thing I agree on is we won’t be protecting two goalies and forfeiting another skater, and that JB has to be very careful in what he’s does with both these guys over the next few years.   Worst case he gets a 5 x 4 contract and ends up our back-up, and Seattle passes on him - there are a lot of other goalies that won’t be protected either, and he’s no MAF (they won’t take him unless they want him for the starter job as he definitely will be paid like a true number one by then) and better options will could very likely be available.   Could see CAL taking him on if he does well and makes It to free agency too. 

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NO. I mean anything can happen but why would they do that honestly. Demko has more potential then any of the goalies we have. Markstrom is like 30 and has hit his peak and sorry he’s not a top ten goalie in this league. Really he’s an average starting goalie which don’t get me wrong still isn’t a bad thing and probably good enough to carry a team.

Demko has age on his side and fits into the mold of our young players.

 

We haven’t made the playoffs guys. There is a lot of work to be done still. Trading Demko is not a good move at this point. You either sign Markstrom to a one year contract and re sign him after the expansion or you trade the guy - the guy that’s 6-7 years older than the other guy. Or you resign him anyway and protect Demko.

 

Lots to be played out but why speculate on something like this when we don’t even know what kind of season these guys are gonna have?

 

Also on a side note why is it when the depth is increased someone always has to be traded haha. All the years of lack of depth and it still comes up. Boggles my mind 

Edited by Devron44
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8 hours ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

You've descended into fantasy here ... too "what if". 

 

Marky could decide to become an astronaut in that time period, too. 

How is Markstrom wanting to test free agency (not liking JBs offer or otherwise) “descending into fantasy?”  It happens too frequently to be considered that - and with Demko getting his chances and all things being equal we might let him walk anyways (two guys making starter money rarely works cap wise).   This entire thread is supposition - if that’s fantasy then guilty as charged - find me a spaceship and I will go look for EPs biological father. 

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8 hours ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

You've descended into fantasy here ... too "what if". 

 

Marky could decide to become an astronaut in that time period, too. 

The whole thread  is what if. What if both goalies play well and nobody gets traded? Whose to say they have to trade either of them?They sign Marky for a decent contract and everything continues on as normal. The OP says they will trade Demko for a first round pick. Its not likely that we get that return so that's fantasy also.

If we are going to talk in what ifs, anyone's what if is valid.

What if Demko wins the Vezina this season and Markstrom becomes the back up?

What if CDC decides to just be a kinder gentler place?

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34 minutes ago, mikeyman109 said:

The whole thread  is what if. What if both goalies play well and nobody gets traded? Whose to say they have to trade either of them?They sign Marky for a decent contract and everything continues on as normal. The OP says they will trade Demko for a first round pick. Its not likely that we get that return so that's fantasy also.

If we are going to talk in what ifs, anyone's what if is valid.

What if Demko wins the Vezina this season and Markstrom becomes the back up?

What if CDC decides to just be a kinder gentler place?

I do wonder and have been for a while that they sell high on Marky. Teams really took notice of him last year. There are quite a few decent stop gap goalies we could sign after next season is done. We could sign the likes of Howard, Elliot, Anderson, Lehner, etc...lots of UFA goalies. The top being Holtby but don't see us going after him.

 

Point I'm getting at is we signed Miller for 3 years so we could take our time grooming Marky. I could see JB doing the same thing if we trade Marky and go full Demko.

 

As you said lots of variables that can happen between now and then. But at some point this,season they will have to pull the trigger on some kind of decision. Will be interesting to see how things play out this year!

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On 8/23/2019 at 8:37 PM, VIC_CITY said:

With the acquisitions of Dipietro, Kielly and now Silovs, I think one could draw the conclusion that Canucks management are preparing to move on from Demko.

 

Here's why:

 

If Markstrom plays at the same level as he did last season, I think the odds of him getting traded are <2%. If Markstrom IS that good, you have to think an extension would be coming his way by sometime around the new year. Ownership is hungry for the playoffs and Markstrom's success or failure is as big of a contributor to this team's success as anyone/anything (oh ya and a healthy team would be nice). 

 

When Benning was recently asked about trading his 1st round pick in the Miller deal, he said there was a possibility of re-acquiring a 1st round pick later and most people laughed at the thought. Newsflash: He wasn't talking about trading Brandon Sutter. If Demko plays around 35 games and is one of the best backup goalies in the league, there's your 1st round pick. You won't get 9th OA like Cory Schbeider did but Demko will definitely be worth a mid to late 1st round pick after an excellent season. 

 

There's also the expansion draft coming up. As enticing as Loui Eriksson is, I think I'd rather go with Demko or Markstrom if I was Ron Francis. So one of them has to go and clearly we're in win now road (like it or not).

 

For these reasons, I believe Demko's days as a Canuck could certainly be numbered. All of that could change though. Markstrom could tear his ACL in training camp. JOKING (please god no). 

 

I'd be interested in hearing everyone else's thoughts. What does our crease look like 2-3 years from now?

Moving on from Demko? Bull$hit! I'm sure this has been mentioned, it's called depth. Demko hasn't even had a season at backup. 

 

What is this an edmonton Oiler troll post? Yes edmonton with a small e.

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2 hours ago, aqua59 said:

Moving on from Demko? Bull$hit! I'm sure this has been mentioned, it's called depth. Demko hasn't even had a season at backup. 

 

What is this an edmonton Oiler troll post? Yes edmonton with a small e.

I'll add to my small thoughts. 

For all of JB shortcomings one of his strong points is his drafting of goaltending. Demco was a prudent move during JB's first draft. Yesterdays signing adds to the depth Vancouver enjoys. Meanwhile we've been watching repetitive marginal goaltending for many teams. Teams recycling their goaltenders amongst themselves. That isn't happening with Vancouver. 

We can't be too quick to trade Marky. Markys emergence as a starter has been slow, but steady on all levels. This gives JB and company time not to rush Demko's development. Gives them time to develop all their other goaltenders. JB keeps the thought of building from the goal outward.

Just stay the course. Deal with the resignings accordingly.

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15 hours ago, mikeyman109 said:

The whole thread  is what if. What if both goalies play well and nobody gets traded? Whose to say they have to trade either of them?They sign Marky for a decent contract and everything continues on as normal. The OP says they will trade Demko for a first round pick. Its not likely that we get that return so that's fantasy also.

If we are going to talk in what ifs, anyone's what if is valid.

What if Demko wins the Vezina this season and Markstrom becomes the back up?

What if CDC decides to just be a kinder gentler place?

Benning needs to be prepared for all scenarios. He can't just re-sign Markstrom and "continue on as normal". It's not normal. There's an expansion draft looming and he can't lose one of them for nothing. Losing Sbisa is fine. Losing Demko is borderline devestating and if Markstrom has another impressive season, the same goes for him. He's literally the back bone of our team right now. So Benning needs to be prepared to choose between Markstrom and Demko.

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7 hours ago, VIC_CITY said:

Benning needs to be prepared for all scenarios. He can't just re-sign Markstrom and "continue on as normal". It's not normal. There's an expansion draft looming and he can't lose one of them for nothing. Losing Sbisa is fine. Losing Demko is borderline devestating and if Markstrom has another impressive season, the same goes for him. He's literally the back bone of our team right now. So Benning needs to be prepared to choose between Markstrom and Demko.

It would be an interesting exercise to look at other teams to get a gauge for what’s happening with their own goaltending situation and who else Seattle will have to choose from.   All things being equal would they pass on Markstrom if they had what they think an equally capable goalie on a similar cap hit because he’d play in the same division and teams get a better look at their own goalies tendencies?  Buffalo, PHI, NSH and a few other teams also have some good young goalies just getting started - And there is a crop of goalies going to free agency soon or getting kept by their teams - some of which will be left unprotected like Murray forced PIT to do with MAF...Crawford, Lehner, Holtby and others will be re-signed too which also plays into things a but.    Vegas went with a number one from the other conference but also with the BPA.   I doubt they (Seattle) pick two number ones either, maybe a 1b and a back-up or two.   Another kid could come out of the woodwork and do what Murray did too.   At this point I really don’t think the odds of them taking Markstrom at the ED is as high as some think it is- he looks good at 3.66 but how good does he look at 5-6?    At least another two or three Demkos will surface before then too...

 

Edit:  Mock drafts have Holtby or Quick getting picked before Markstrom.   Holtby makes a lot more sense then either of them - they have Ilya Samsanov to protect - the leagues next Vasilevsky. 

Edited by IBatch
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1 hour ago, IBatch said:

It would be an interesting exercise to look at other teams to get a gauge for what’s happening with their own goaltending situation and who else Seattle will have to choose from.   All things being equal would they pass on Markstrom if they had what they think an equally capable goalie on a similar cap hit because he’d play in the same division and teams get a better look at their own goalies tendencies?  Buffalo, PHI, NSH and a few other teams also have some good young goalies just getting started - And there is a crop of goalies going to free agency soon or getting kept by their teams - some of which will be left unprotected like Murray forced PIT to do with MAF...Crawford, Lehner, Holtby and others will be re-signed too which also plays into things a but.    Vegas went with a number one from the other conference but also with the BPA.   I doubt they (Seattle) pick two number ones either, maybe a 1b and a back-up or two.   Another kid could come out of the woodwork and do what Murray did too.   At this point I really don’t think the odds of them taking Markstrom at the ED is as high as some think it is- he looks good at 3.66 but how good does he look at 5-6?    At least another two or three Demkos will surface before then too...

 

Edit:  Mock drafts have Holtby or Quick getting picked before Markstrom.   Holtby makes a lot more sense then either of them - they have Ilya Samsanov to protect - the leagues next Vasilevsky. 

Very good points IBatch. I didn’t think about what other goalies could be available to them. It’s going to be a very interesting season with our goaltending.

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9 hours ago, VIC_CITY said:

Benning needs to be prepared for all scenarios. He can't just re-sign Markstrom and "continue on as normal". It's not normal. There's an expansion draft looming and he can't lose one of them for nothing. Losing Sbisa is fine. Losing Demko is borderline devestating and if Markstrom has another impressive season, the same goes for him. He's literally the back bone of our team right now. So Benning needs to be prepared to choose between Markstrom and Demko.

If losing Demko is borderline devastating then it sounds like you have your mind made up that Demko is the one we should protect?  And yes he can resign Markstrom and wait and see who Seattle chooses. They most likely are not looking to have two number 1 goalies on their roster. If they choose Holtby or another top keeper from another team they are less likely to take on Markstrom. Its a gamble but it all depends on what he wants to do. If they get to the ED and Markstrom is exposed perhaps that's the time to move a goaltender. There's no rush to decide today. There's a lot of hockey to be played before he has to make his mind up.

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It's a sticky situation for sure. Pure asset management would dictate we should move one by the '20 TDL. But that doesn't factor in a potential playoff run and what taking a carving knife to the goalie depth would do to it.

 

Personally, I think we would have had to have moved one this summer if we were going to move one at all. Then we'd still have had the opportunity to take our pick of the UFA goalies available to either tandem with Demko or backup Marky (depending on who we kept). That ship has sailed.

 

So that leaves us likely with either Marky walking next summer or extending him (likely +/- 4 years) and either moving one goalie closer to the ED (at deflated market prices/reduced return) or letting the chips fall where they may come the ED after we protect only one (my assumption would be Demko getting protected).

 

 

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10 hours ago, VIC_CITY said:

Benning needs to be prepared for all scenarios. He can't just re-sign Markstrom and "continue on as normal". It's not normal. There's an expansion draft looming and he can't lose one of them for nothing. Losing Sbisa is fine. Losing Demko is borderline devestating and if Markstrom has another impressive season, the same goes for him. He's literally the back bone of our team right now. So Benning needs to be prepared to choose between Markstrom and Demko.

Jim could sign an aging goalie to expose like when the Canucks signed John Vanbiesbrouck to expose during the Panthers Expansion.

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