San Francisco council calls NRA 'domestic terrorist organisation

[ItsAllOursBoys]

4 minutes ago, HerrDrFunk said:

Meanwhile, you gloss over all the democracies that do have strict gun control laws like Australia, Britain, Finland and Japan. 

That sir is a red-herring. Lower gun crime statistics in those countries is due to a variety of issues. With the exception of Britain, establishment and access to good mental health programs, respect for authority, a good moral compass and other cultural differences all contribute to lower gun crime. Its not just the strict gun laws themselves.

 

But the laws of other countries is really secondary. My point still stands..... Historically speaking, as a nation moves from personal liberty and freedom to totalitarianism (Soviet Russia, 1938 Germany, 1944 Eastern Block Countries, 1959 Cuba), one of the final steps is repressive or complete gun control.

[Lancaster]

5 minutes ago, HerrDrFunk said:

Do we really need to have a whole back and forth about how easy access to guns makes a difference, again?

So according to your logic, if Japan suddenly has the 2A, that tons of people will be shooting each other and going postal?

[JM_]

10 minutes ago, ItsAllOursBoys said:

 

But the laws of other countries is really secondary. My point still stands..... Historically speaking, as a nation moves from personal liberty and freedom to totalitarianism (Soviet Russia, 1938 Germany, 1944 Eastern Block Countries, 1959 Cuba), one of the final steps is repressive or complete gun control.

actually its not a valid point at all, in relation to the need for gun control in todays US. 

[HerrDrFunk]

15 minutes ago, ItsAllOursBoys said:

That sir is a red-herring. Lower gun crime statistics in those countries is due to a variety of issues. With the exception of Britain, establishment and access to good mental health programs, respect for authority, a good moral compass and other cultural differences all contribute to lower gun crime. Its not just the strict gun laws themselves.

 

But the laws of other countries is really secondary. My point still stands..... Historically speaking, as a nation moves from personal liberty and freedom to totalitarianism (Soviet Russia, 1938 Germany, 1944 Eastern Block Countries, 1959 Cuba), one of the final steps is repressive or complete gun control.

So don't enact gun control laws in countries with totalitarian governments. Boom. 

[HerrDrFunk]

14 minutes ago, Lancaster said:

So according to your logic, if Japan suddenly has the 2A, that tons of people will be shooting each other and going postal?

Probably not to the degree of the US (until, like the US, Japan has more guns than people anyway) but you don't think there wouldn't be a sharp spike in gun crimes? 

[Warhippy]

27 minutes ago, ItsAllOursBoys said:

That sir is a red-herring. Lower gun crime statistics in those countries is due to a variety of issues. With the exception of Britain, establishment and access to good mental health programs, respect for authority, a good moral compass and other cultural differences all contribute to lower gun crime. Its not just the strict gun laws themselves.

 

But the laws of other countries is really secondary. My point still stands..... Historically speaking, as a nation moves from personal liberty and freedom to totalitarianism (Soviet Russia, 1938 Germany, 1944 Eastern Block Countries, 1959 Cuba), one of the final steps is repressive or complete gun control.

Except that it is

 

AUS and the UK used to have gun violence.  A few extremely violent acts and gun restrictions went in very heavily and magically the gun violence largely disappeared...

[Warhippy]

15 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

actually its not a valid point at all, in relation to the need for gun control in todays US. 

It's the only point he has.  Push the most ridiculous and extreme narrative that is completely incorrect and wrong and use that as a sounding board.

[riffraff]

39 minutes ago, ItsAllOursBoys said:

That sir is a red-herring. Lower gun crime statistics in those countries is due to a variety of issues. With the exception of Britain, establishment and access to good mental health programs, respect for authority, a good moral compass and other cultural differences all contribute to lower gun crime. Its not just the strict gun laws themselves.

 

But the laws of other countries is really secondary. My point still stands..... Historically speaking, as a nation moves from personal liberty and freedom to totalitarianism (Soviet Russia, 1938 Germany, 1944 Eastern Block Countries, 1959 Cuba), one of the final steps is repressive or complete gun control.

How does gun control equate to the loss of freedom and liberty?  

 

Canada isnt perfectbut it is far from totalitarianism as are other countries with gun control.

 

i just don’t see the connection as your present it.

 

if the “worst” result is that the US becomes more like Canada as a result of gun laws, I’ll take it as a win and I’m sure many yanks would agree.

[bishopshodan]

Good for SF to troll the NRA.

They more than deserve it.

 

Terrorism is a silly term to use but what has the NRA done to affect gun control? If they are doing nothing and instead encouraging sales, when that nation obviously has an issue. Perhaps they more often should be labelled as something negative that gets the public's attention. 

 

I hear the chant "do something" more these day during public speeches. I suppose it's due to the fatigue of the same circular arguments that pop up on CDC. People don't know what to do or say ...while their citizens keep getting blown away in random and staggering ways.

 

 

[HerrDrFunk]

2 minutes ago, riffraff said:

How does gun control equate to the loss of freedom and liberty?  

 

Canada isnt perfectbut it is far from totalitarianism as are other countries with gun control.

 

i just don’t see the connection as your present it.

 

if the “worst” result is that the US becomes more like Canada as a result of gun laws, I’ll take it as a win and I’m sure many yanks would agree.

That's literally all I'm looking for out of gun control laws. Yet that's too much, apparently. 

[riffraff]

44 minutes ago, ItsAllOursBoys said:

That sir is a red-herring. Lower gun crime statistics in those countries is due to a variety of issues. With the exception of Britain, establishment and access to good mental health programs, respect for authority, a good moral compass and other cultural differences all contribute to lower gun crime. Its not just the strict gun laws themselves.

 

But the laws of other countries is really secondary. My point still stands..... Historically speaking, as a nation moves from personal liberty and freedom to totalitarianism (Soviet Russia, 1938 Germany, 1944 Eastern Block Countries, 1959 Cuba), one of the final steps is repressive or complete gun control.

So essentially the USA is an immature country that can’t handle big kid toys.

 

so until the government along with the citizens prove otherwise,  their guns should be taken away.

[riffraff]

1 minute ago, HerrDrFunk said:

That's literally all I'm looking for out of gun control laws. Yet that's too much, apparently. 

It’s like common sense in the form of a bucket of water in the face.  Absolutely shocking that it’s argued against with any justification.

[Lancaster]

12 minutes ago, HerrDrFunk said:

Probably not to the degree of the US (until, like the US, Japan has more guns than people anyway) but you don't think there wouldn't be a sharp spike in gun crimes? 

Separating "gun crime" and "crime" is pointless since the former still fits under the category of the latter.

But yes, technically speaking there will be an increase.  The guy who would have smothered his infirmed mother with a pillow deciding to use a gun instead... sure, that's a +1 to gun crime... but it was going to be a +1 to murder anyways.  Different categorization of the same crime, but materially the same.  

 

Overall crime... IMO, there would be no difference in Japan.  

Random attacks and killing sprees are still relatively rare in Japan.  Not saying there's none, as the Kyoto firebombing did kill 30+ people, most of the murders and killing I read about (I read a lot since they're always flooding my facebook feed)... are usually crimes of passion, killing of family members with tools/weapons at home, or Yakuza related (many already use firearms).  

[HerrDrFunk]

2 minutes ago, Lancaster said:

Separating "gun crime" and "crime" is pointless since the former still fits under the category of the latter.

But yes, technically speaking there will be an increase.  The guy who would have smothered his infirmed mother with a pillow deciding to use a gun instead... sure, that's a +1 to gun crime... but it was going to be a +1 to murder anyways.  Different categorization of the same crime, but materially the same.  

 

Overall crime... IMO, there would be no difference in Japan.  

Random attacks and killing sprees are still relatively rare in Japan.  Not saying there's none, as the Kyoto firebombing did kill 30+ people, most of the murders and killing I read about (I read a lot since they're always flooding my facebook feed)... are usually crimes of passion, killing of family members with tools/weapons at home, or Yakuza related (many already use firearms).  

Did you happen to know it's a lot easier to kill someone with a gun in a moment of passion than a pillow?

[inane]

2 minutes ago, HerrDrFunk said:

Did you happen to know it's a lot easier to kill someone with a gun in a moment of passion than a pillow?

And don't forget about all those 'accidental' pillow murders, especially by toddlers that find those unsecured pillows.

[Lancaster]

6 minutes ago, HerrDrFunk said:

Did you happen to know it's a lot easier to kill someone with a gun in a moment of passion than a pillow?

Of course, lets completely ignore the original intent to murder another person.  

You are too focused on the "how?", rather than the real issue, the "why?"

 

Why does Japan has a lower crime rate?  Why does Japan has lower theft?  Why is the assault rate lower in Japan?  Why aren't murders as prevalent compared to the US?

Could it be they don't have as much societal flaws like the US?  Maybe they have a higher rate of "normal" family units?  Perhaps their education is more streamlined?  Maybe school provide balanced diet lunches to children during their most developmentally sensitive stage?  Maybe the Japanese are more spiritual compared to Americans?  They have more accessibility to social programs and health care resources?  That morality and manners are taught and ingrained from a young age?

 

But no... let's not really investigate or do any critical thinking, just "ban guns", because that's the lowest hanging fruit to grab for some of those "feel good" "faux moral superiority" points.  

[HerrDrFunk]

3 minutes ago, Lancaster said:

Of course, lets completely ignore the original intent to murder another person.  

You are too focused on the "how?", rather than the real issue, the "why?"

 

Why does Japan has a lower crime rate?  Why does Japan has lower theft?  Why is the assault rate lower in Japan?  Why aren't murders as prevalent compared to the US?

Could it be they don't have as much societal flaws like the US?  Maybe they have a higher rate of "normal" family units?  Perhaps their education is more streamlined?  Maybe school provide balanced diet lunches to children during their most developmentally sensitive stage?  Maybe the Japanese are more spiritual compared to Americans?  They have more accessibility to social programs and health care resources?  That morality and manners are taught and ingrained from a young age?

 

But no... let's not really investigate or do any critical thinking, just "ban guns", because that's the lowest hanging fruit to grab for some of those "feel good" "faux moral superiority" points.  

I've literally never said that.  

 

I want gun reform so that the US has similar gun laws to Canada. Why is that so hard to understand? I've told you that multiple times before now. 

Edited September 5, 2019 by HerrDrFunk

[Lancaster]

1 minute ago, HerrDrFunk said:

I've literally never said that.  

Okay, fair enough.  Care to address anything else from the above?

[HerrDrFunk]

55 minutes ago, Lancaster said:

Okay, fair enough.  Care to address anything else from the above?

Sure, but seriously, please cut that $&!# out. Every time we have a debate about guns, you say my solution is "ban guns"; which I've never advocated. 

 

Japan does have better social programs than the US. The US would be better off if its citizens had access to similar ones. However, as we've already discussed, you think all the US needs is better social programs while I say the answer is better social programs in conjunction with stricter gun laws. It's almost as if countries, like Japan, that have a good social safety net and strict gun laws don't see a whole lot of gun crime. Which kind of proves my point. 

Edited September 5, 2019 by HerrDrFunk

[NewbieCanuckFan]

29 minutes ago, HerrDrFunk said:

Japan does have better social programs than the US. The US would be better off if its citizens had access to similar ones. However, as we've already discussed, you think all the US needs is better social programs while I say the answer is better social programs in conjunction with stricter gun laws. It's almost as if countries, like Japan, that have a good social safety net and strict gun laws don't see a whole lot of gun crime. Which kind of proves my point. 

Different culture there as well.  Look at the homeless in Japan for example.