Devron Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 7 minutes ago, grandmaster said: Grammatical error, lol! Sorry just in a mood now. If you look at the last couple years they had a ton of cap space they never filled up. They are using every dollar this year, hence, the compete phase. I don’t know it just seems like with an aging roster they are going to have a tough time. Seems a bit like the Canucks with the Sedins a few years ago. I mean it’s tough to blame them when they have their stars if I may (Parise and Suter) locked up long term. I have a tough time seeing them anything more then a fringe playoff team the next couple years and fall off the map completely after that. But who knows maybe their younger players will be good enough by then. Tough to say 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayCanuck10 Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 5 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: You don't win in the NHL playoffs with guys as small as little Johnny. Look what happened to Calgary and Tampa. Lost in the first round. Minnesota didn't even make the playoffs but apparently their top 4 D is one of the best in the league. That doesn't make any sense. How can you be a bottom feeder team and have one of the best defenses in the NHL? St. Louis on the other hand has giants on the backend and won the Cup. This is a big man's game now. You can have some guys that are small on your team but when they are your core players like little Johnny, Point and Spurgeon you are going nowhere in the playoffs. Spurgeon at $7.5 million is crazy money. Parayko at $5.5 million is one of the best contracts in the entire NHL... So what does that mean for Quinn Hughes? He's small, but extremely talented. Even so, he won't help us in the playoffs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandmaster Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 43 minutes ago, JayCanuck10 said: So what does that mean for Quinn Hughes? He's small, but extremely talented. Even so, he won't help us in the playoffs? He has 6’8 beast in Myers to offset Hughes’ size issues! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 5 hours ago, JayCanuck10 said: So what does that mean for Quinn Hughes? He's small, but extremely talented. Even so, he won't help us in the playoffs? You pair Hughes with Myers or Tryamkin. That offsets the size issue. You let him do his thing, run a powerplay and get 50-60 points a year. Spurgeon is not that type of player. He's not an offensive dynamo yet he's built like Hughes. If you have small players on your team they need to be able to have a high skill level to play big minutes, play regularly on your PP and score a lot of points. And they need to be sheltered with bigger players. If you are paying $7.5 million for a defenceman who is 5'9" and is not a power play guy then that is a recipe for a non-playoff team. Plus on top of all that Spurgeon is 30 years old in a couple months. So you will be paying him $7.5 million into his late 30's. Is he going to last that long? Did he have a career year last year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 11 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: You don't win in the NHL playoffs with guys as small as little Johnny. Look what happened to Calgary and Tampa. Lost in the first round. Minnesota didn't even make the playoffs but apparently their top 4 D is one of the best in the league. That doesn't make any sense. How can you be a bottom feeder team and have one of the best defenses in the NHL? St. Louis on the other hand has giants on the backend and won the Cup. This is a big man's game now. You can have some guys that are small on your team but when they are your core players like little Johnny, Point and Spurgeon you are going nowhere in the playoffs. Spurgeon at $7.5 million is crazy money. Parayko at $5.5 million is one of the best contracts in the entire NHL... Their Ds are that good when all 4 are healthy. A year ago they had 200pts from their Ds which was 2nd just behind Nashville. With Dumba injured they dropped down to 150pts last season. League average is around 160pts. Canucks by comparison had 122pts 2 seasons ago and 135pts last season. This was the Wild's heat map of shots against - it shows were shots against are coming from. You want it to be as blue as possible from the scoring areas. The Wild are good at keeping shots against from the perimeter. Goaltending has been shaky but defensively they have been sound and Spurgeon was a big reason for that. Last year Suter was struggling all season with his ankle. They lost Dumba in November. Spurgeon was holding the fort together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, mll said: Their Ds are that good when all 4 are healthy. A year ago they had 200pts from their Ds which was 2nd just behind Nashville. With Dumba injured they dropped down to 150pts last season. League average is around 160pts. Canucks by comparison had 122pts 2 seasons ago and 135pts last season. This was the Wild's heat map of shots against - it shows were shots against are coming from. You want it to be as blue as possible from the scoring areas. The Wild are good at keeping shots against from the perimeter. Goaltending has been shaky but defensively they have been sound and Spurgeon was a big reason for that. Last year Suter was struggling all season with his ankle. They lost Dumba in November. Spurgeon was holding the fort together. I don't disagree that the Wild are good defensively. What I disagree with is paying a 5'9" 30 year old defenceman #1 D money. He's not a #1 D and neither is Dumba. Together on a defensive team like the Wild they look good, but at the end of the day they will get eaten alive in the playoffs if they ever make it back in. I'd rather have a couple of giants like Myers and Tryamkin holding the fort defensively while guys like Hughes and Stecher run around and get points and run our power play. That's how you build a defence and Benning as an ex-defenceman himself knows this. Again look at St. Louis, look at Boston. Even Tampa has a big defence but unfortunately they have a lot of smaller forwards which hurt them in the playoffs. It's no coincidence Tampa added Luke Schenn this year as they needed more truculence. The Canucks added Myers and Benn with Tryamkin up next. We will have a big D next year with a couple smaller guys racking up the points and running our power play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Glensky Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 On 9/14/2019 at 11:16 AM, oldnews said: I don't know, but by my calculations, 14 goals last year would appear to be a career best, and so would 29 assists, as well as 43 points....so by that measure (production, something a lot of people reduced "better" to) - he'd appear to be getting "better." As for getting younger, I've never met a human that does. Finishing 11th in Norris voting aint all that bad either (not that it's a great 'metric'). Don't mistake this for an endorsement of his deal - the point is that people do this all the time - jump into threads, jump to conclusions, make assumptions - before looking at the outcomes the player is achieving. It doesn't hurt to look at the player's performance before judging their contract. Still wouldn’t touch that contract with a 10 foot pole. Remember when we thought Loui was going to light it up after consecutive 30 goal seasons? Big pay day and guy hasn’t done sh*t. The money is getting into these players heads, cough Hayes cough. Spurgeon will play 2 good seasons then die out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Glensky Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 6 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: You pair Hughes with Myers or Tryamkin. That offsets the size issue. You let him do his thing, run a powerplay and get 50-60 points a year. Spurgeon is not that type of player. He's not an offensive dynamo yet he's built like Hughes. If you have small players on your team they need to be able to have a high skill level to play big minutes, play regularly on your PP and score a lot of points. And they need to be sheltered with bigger players. If you are paying $7.5 million for a defenceman who is 5'9" and is not a power play guy then that is a recipe for a non-playoff team. Plus on top of all that Spurgeon is 30 years old in a couple months. So you will be paying him $7.5 million into his late 30's. Is he going to last that long? Did he have a career year last year? The NHL was a “big” mans game 25 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 4 minutes ago, NeilColville said: The NHL was a “big” mans game 25 years ago. The starting defence for the Stanley Cup Champions of 2019: Colton Parayko - 6'6" 230 Alex Pietrangelo - 6'3" 210 Jay Bouwmeester - 6'4" 206 Joel Edmundson - 6'4" 215 Robert Bortuzzo - 6'4" 216 Carl Gunnarsson - 6'2" 198 Vince Dunn - 6'0" 203 The smallest guy was 6'0" 203 pounds. It's still a big mans game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Glensky Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: The starting defence for the Stanley Cup Champions of 2019: Colton Parayko - 6'6" 230 Alex Pietrangelo - 6'3" 210 Jay Bouwmeester - 6'4" 206 Joel Edmundson - 6'4" 215 Robert Bortuzzo - 6'4" 216 Carl Gunnarsson - 6'2" 198 Vince Dunn - 6'0" 203 The smallest guy was 6'0" 203 pounds. It's still a big mans game... Touché 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 19 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: Actually Boston won with Chara not Krug. Without Chara there are no Cups in Boston. Also Krug can rack up 50 points a year and run a power play so he's a perfect compliment to a Chara. Spurgeon can't do that, he needs to play with a Krug but then you have two small guys on the ice at the same time. These small players cannot be the focal point of your defence unless they are offensive dynamos who can be sheltered with bigger players. Paying Spurgeon Chara or Hedman money is crazy. Not worth it in my opinion. You can certainly have some smaller players on your team but they cannot be the focal point and the big money earners unless they are generational talents. And yes Minny is a mediocre team going nowhere so it doesn't really matter. Their top players are past their prime and so I don't see them as a playoff team anytime soon... Yes Chara was more important. But he was making $7.5 mill in 2006. That's $11 or $13 mill in todays money. You only have one sense of scale. Hedman signed a $65 mill contract 2 years ago. That's $76 mill this year, and was considered a reasonable, even discounted S Florida, no tax deal. Its a lot of money for Spurgeon. But not THAT lotta money. Josh Morrisey, a bit bigger, but similar, less accomplished, same kind of upside 2 way D? Just signed for $6.5 mill. Its the reality of a contract for a top pairing D. Its obvious you don't watch Minny. The guy is superb. He would have been top pair for us each of the last 5 years with Edler, if we had had him... Minny have a good top 4, who put up 200 points a season. Vancouver has been hovering around 135 points as a poor defensive squad, for example. He has been logging big minutes for many years. Its what a top pair defender gets paid. Just term considering he's 29 is a risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: The starting defence for the Stanley Cup Champions of 2019: Colton Parayko - 6'6" 230 Alex Pietrangelo - 6'3" 210 Jay Bouwmeester - 6'4" 206 Joel Edmundson - 6'4" 215 Robert Bortuzzo - 6'4" 216 Carl Gunnarsson - 6'2" 198 Vince Dunn - 6'0" 203 The smallest guy was 6'0" 203 pounds. It's still a big mans game... I agree that size in the playoffs is important but I would argue Binnington was much more of a factor than the size of their defense. There were games that the Blues D were getting absolutely undressed and Binnington kept them in it. Mobility and hockey IQ are still the key. Whether a guy is 6’5” or 6’0 is secondary to their decision making and skating ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 6 hours ago, DeNiro said: I agree that size in the playoffs is important but I would argue Binnington was much more of a factor than the size of their defense. There were games that the Blues D were getting absolutely undressed and Binnington kept them in it. Mobility and hockey IQ are still the key. Whether a guy is 6’5” or 6’0 is secondary to their decision making and skating ability. I agree you need mobility and IQ but having a guy like Parayko at the back makes things so much easier for the goalie. Minnesota doesn't have anyone close to a Parayko whereas most of the St. Louis defencemen are almost as big. Minnesota may have great mobility at the back end but come playoff time when Ryan Reaves and Evander Kane come after them it's a whole different ballgame. Those smurfs won't survive the first round... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 7 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said: Yes Chara was more important. But he was making $7.5 mill in 2006. That's $11 or $13 mill in todays money. You only have one sense of scale. Hedman signed a $65 mill contract 2 years ago. That's $76 mill this year, and was considered a reasonable, even discounted S Florida, no tax deal. Its a lot of money for Spurgeon. But not THAT lotta money. Josh Morrisey, a bit bigger, but similar, less accomplished, same kind of upside 2 way D? Just signed for $6.5 mill. Its the reality of a contract for a top pairing D. Its obvious you don't watch Minny. The guy is superb. He would have been top pair for us each of the last 5 years with Edler, if we had had him... Minny have a good top 4, who put up 200 points a season. Vancouver has been hovering around 135 points as a poor defensive squad, for example. He has been logging big minutes for many years. Its what a top pair defender gets paid. Just term considering he's 29 is a risk. True I don't watch a lot of Wild hockey. There are much better things to do in life than watch a defensively boring team. I'm not disagreeing with you in the fact that Spurgeon is a good player. He's just not a guy you build a defence around in my opinion. Definitely not a guy you pay almost $8 million for when he is just turning 30. I can see that contract being an anchor in less than 3 years. They already have 3 anchor contracts with Parise, Suter and Zuccarello, I guess adding one more won't make much of a difference. Minnesota sure loves their smurfs, they are paying almost $34 million in salary to 5 top end players who are 6' or under and less than 190 pounds. But I do agree that under the current conditions $7.5 million isn't the worst contract in the NHL. There are far worse contracts even on the Wild. Zuccarello at $6 million is worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 26 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: There are much better things to do in life than watch a defensively boring team. I'll take that & move on... Cheers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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