coastal.view Posted November 1, 2019 Author Share Posted November 1, 2019 at the quarter pole 20 or so games into this season maybe we can broaden this discussion to making a list of the top 5 gms so far this season jb is already on my list of those gms 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItTakesAnArmy Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 20 hours ago, coastal.view said: at the quarter pole 20 or so games into this season maybe we can broaden this discussion to making a list of the top 5 gms so far this season jb is already on my list of those gms The Nucks have looked good at the quarter pole the last 7 years They will be better this year than other seasons but why the blind love over what may be a one off, as a fan you have to have seen how many teams TANKED in the McDavid year and now even more can "improve" their odds and at the minimum cash in on this season exceptionally highly talented and deep draft class. Build through the draft right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal.view Posted November 2, 2019 Author Share Posted November 2, 2019 4 hours ago, ItTakesAnArmy said: The Nucks have looked good at the quarter pole the last 7 years They will be better this year than other seasons but why the blind love over what may be a one off, as a fan you have to have seen how many teams TANKED in the McDavid year and now even more can "improve" their odds and at the minimum cash in on this season exceptionally highly talented and deep draft class. Build through the draft right? a one off? you are a blind faith tanker why bother with hockey if that is your view of the game smh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItTakesAnArmy Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 11 hours ago, coastal.view said: a one off? you are a blind faith tanker why bother with hockey if that is your view of the game smh Sure a one off, look at next year's cap hell coming. 9 players to get raises or re-sign and over 5 mil in additional bonuses. The team cannot even buyout contracts because cap hits stay against the cap. One of the only solutions is to jettison players and to keep the good one's means trading away picks and or prospects to sweeten deals, like so many cup winners and contenders have had to do. But this is still a rebuilding team. Okay so they let Tanev walk, loose a player not named Ferland in the expansion draft, have no cap space for trades for the expansion draft and clause contract players that they will not move. So who goes? A great year this season, all in, sold even some of the future for a singular attempt at a playoff spot in a year where many teams might decide that theri rebuil could be quickened by getting one of this year's high quality draft picks in later rounds so they tank after the TDL making it easier to make the playoffs. Draft picks that can play save the team's millions of dollars. No I am not a tanker but Benning isn't anything, can't trade, bad at contracts, I look at the picture 3 or 4 years down the road, right now 3 or 4 years from now the team is doing another "re-tool, rebuild or is still one or two players short. Tampa has a good regular season team but suck in the playoffs, is that the model the Canucks should pursue? No where in this have i posted that this team sucks, but it is what it is, a one off, too many players need to go for next year's team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianRugby Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 On 10/31/2019 at 7:17 PM, AK_19 said: Glad I'm eating crow about the Myers signing. He's been great! On pace for 19 points and at best, ok defensively. I like Myers but great? Dunno about that. 22 hours ago, ItTakesAnArmy said: Build through the draft right? CDC is confused. Argued for years you don't need high picks, now praises the high picks that are playing well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogersTowell Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 7 hours ago, ItTakesAnArmy said: Sure a one off, look at next year's cap hell coming. 9 players to get raises or re-sign and over 5 mil in additional bonuses. The team cannot even buyout contracts because cap hits stay against the cap. One of the only solutions is to jettison players and to keep the good one's means trading away picks and or prospects to sweeten deals, like so many cup winners and contenders have had to do. But this is still a rebuilding team. Okay so they let Tanev walk, loose a player not named Ferland in the expansion draft, have no cap space for trades for the expansion draft and clause contract players that they will not move. Look at the list of players who's contracts are up. Markstrom and Tanev are about the only ones you might really want to sign again, but you can survive without either if you are in a crunch. The rest are guys like Shaller and Leivo for UFA and some RFAs who likely aren't going to cost a ton if they fit the plan. There are a lot of guys on the Comets that are ready to give the show a run and won't cost a ton. The expensive contracts aren't even until the year after, at which time some moderately expensive UFAs come off the books (Sutter, Pearson, Baertschi, Edler). You'll need to re sign Petey and Huggie at that time and the money will be there. Signing Sutter and Edler should be doable if that looks like a good way to go by then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spur1 Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 Ahh.... the mythical cap crunch rears it’s false head again. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal.view Posted November 3, 2019 Author Share Posted November 3, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, spur1 said: Ahh.... the mythical cap crunch rears it’s false head again. exactly 17 million currently projected as cap space for next year 14 players signed 9 more to go to get to 23 build in a modest cap increase of say 2 million and we are at 19 million .. .more then 2 million per needed player tanev, stecher and marky are the only important/expensive re-signings even if they eat up 12 million - which i think is on the high side that will still leave 7 million for the 6 remaining spots.. very doable guadette leivo notte and jake can likely be done for a combined 5.5 million leaves remaining 2 spots as league minimum paid players they numbers can be fine tuned a bit as my projections put the team a couple hundred thousand above the cap the key offseason is not next year anyway it is the following off season and the nucks are well positioned to restructure their roster at that time they can easily retain all key young prospects as they will have a lot of cap available and then rebuild depth around them currently there is 40 million available, plus 2 million or so in cap increase next offseason, and 3 or so the next offseason leaving them with 45 million or perhaps more Edited November 3, 2019 by coastal.view Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItTakesAnArmy Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 On 11/2/2019 at 11:26 PM, RogersTowell said: Look at the list of players who's contracts are up. Markstrom and Tanev are about the only ones you might really want to sign again, but you can survive without either if you are in a crunch. The rest are guys like Shaller and Leivo for UFA and some RFAs who likely aren't going to cost a ton if they fit the plan. There are a lot of guys on the Comets that are ready to give the show a run and won't cost a ton. The expensive contracts aren't even until the year after, at which time some moderately expensive UFAs come off the books (Sutter, Pearson, Baertschi, Edler). You'll need to re sign Petey and Huggie at that time and the money will be there. Signing Sutter and Edler should be doable if that looks like a good way to go by then. If the guys in the farm are that good why are they playing in Utica? Dropping a number of vets CHANGES the team next year, hence this is a one off team. Subtract up to 10+mil in cap space at the start of next season, those are just bonuses and buy out stuff. IMO go all in on Demko and DiPetro and deal Markstrom at the TDL and see if they can get something for Tanev, then bring back Tryamkin. Untradeable are Baertschi and Eriksson, Sven because of concussions and Erkisson because of Benning's savvy evaluation and negotiation skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 13 hours ago, ItTakesAnArmy said: If the guys in the farm are that good why are they playing in Utica? Dropping a number of vets CHANGES the team next year, hence this is a one off team. Subtract up to 10+mil in cap space at the start of next season, those are just bonuses and buy out stuff. IMO go all in on Demko and DiPetro and deal Markstrom at the TDL and see if they can get something for Tanev, then bring back Tryamkin. Untradeable are Baertschi and Eriksson, Sven because of concussions and Erkisson because of Benning's savvy evaluation and negotiation skills. For better (it is) or worse this is the team we are going with as the next core. Turned out a LOT better then I anticipated, given we started with about as much as an expansion team does under the OLD rules. Zero prospects. And about the same quality of guys available minus Horvat who was the only thing we had to start with from the old core. It’s funny how almost everyone has stopped complaining (on this forum) yet your holding on tooth and nail despite it all. As a long time fan I’ve never seen a stretch of drafting like the one we’ve had, or a pool that continues to keep giving even though a lot of what was recently in it is now on the team. Both EP and Hughes made the top ten cut best 21 and unders just released (2 and 10), way ahead of all or most of their draft class to boot (Hirschier 31)... Yes JB will have to continue to adjust the roster both in the short and long term to keep under the cap - the same way 20 other teams actively trying to compete also have to. Each of them has their own albatrosses - none of them has 3 million less the next three years but I look at it as a reserve (LE too) for when we really need it. Agree we need to do something - and I’m sure JB will do something to make it work. It could include trading a first to trade LE his last year the same way TO did with Marleau to get the dough for Hughes and EP when they are up. Thems the breaks. Or maybe Markstrom gets traded like you said and he finds a cheap older vet to back-up Demko (which is very possible). The money will be there when the team will be peaking in three years - maybe the window is open early right now and we don’t know it yet - but it definitely will be wide open when EP and Hughes are on their second contracts and the remainder of the prospect pool filters in and takes over the expensive placeholders we still have left. If that’s the case (the window is open now), most of the 2020’s will be our time to win a cup. Longest window I’ve ever seen with this team so far... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salacious Crumb Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 On 10/8/2019 at 10:38 PM, ItTakesAnArmy said: President - Past player with no experience yep Rookie GM's - Yes to both teams Rookie AHL coaches - Familiar Old friends and family hired for front office - Right on. Misses on first round picks - Vancouver is in the lead there by percentage Number of draft picks traded away - Vancouver is in the lead. Number of years as the worst team in the league - a tie over a 4 year period One thing to take note of is Edmonton had many fingers in the pie to help screw them up, Vancouver has had only one, Benning and yet Almost correct, the order is wrong though, JB will lose the job and then it will need to be blown up. Hopefully it will be a Colorado type of rebuild, if so the team will be moving Horvat and maybe Boeser or Hughes for first round picks over the next 3 to 4 years. This is not a wish, more of a prediction. But who knows maybe enough teams will tank that it makes it look like the team is ready to battle for the cup. Hey guardian! Missed ya buddy! 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 On 10/9/2019 at 11:07 PM, IBatch said: Yep we shall see. As far as peaking goes only the very elite do at the age your suggesting though...maybe go and see when Naslund had his three 40 plus goal seasons - when the Sedins had their 100 plus point years - when Marchand joined the elite - when Bergeron had his best season a when a pile of defenseman had their best years (OK - I will assume you didn’t mean them).. Most players have their best seasons between 25-30. Kane and Toews did despite being great early on. Crosby did. Only Gretzky is really and a few others did better pre 25. The rest did/have not. But carry on with your narrative- I’m sure you will be very happy with yourself if Miller is like Gagne . You're wasting your time Ibatch... For some it will not be enough to get the boat... they still want to try their luck and maybe get the boat.. They simply cannot accept that JB has hit this one out of the ball park... Comparing us to Oilers... and their seven hundred first OA picks, and still floundering.... Where it will end, nobody knows, but the ride has started pretty fine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpn1 Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 What would be the typical length of the average rebuild? I am thinking that the average would be around 5 years. I think Jim has delivered and has been a good GM. It takes time to see players through to maturity. Jake is Jim's first pick and he is only 23 years old. We are just starting to see the result of how he has a competitive team in Vancouver along with a lot of your draft picks playing on a competitive team in the "A". Jim took us from a real bad team with no real prospects to where we are a good team with a good prospect pool. I say Jim is doing a good Job. Not awesome but good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman64 Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 On 9/17/2019 at 10:15 PM, bloodycanuckleheads said: Don't forget... Everyone here thought 2018 was a smashing success - until it wasn't. And everyone here thought the 2017 signings were a smashing success - until they weren't. And 2016, well let's not even mention 2016... Well in a way they all were successful years, burning off years off contracts so we could start signing quality guys and we're not even done yet until LE and Luongo's contracts are up.. Finally most of the old ones are gone and JB is filling them nicely, this has been going on since 2012 really, a broken team with no identity had to go and yeah it takes time, why this was a big surprise to anyone is beyond me.. the only surprise is how well we've been doing lately and JB has done fine.. mistakes yes but some really good moves too.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 (edited) On 11/2/2019 at 6:08 PM, coastal.view said: exactly 17 million currently projected as cap space for next year 14 players signed 9 more to go to get to 23 build in a modest cap increase of say 2 million and we are at 19 million .. .more then 2 million per needed player tanev, stecher and marky are the only important/expensive re-signings even if they eat up 12 million - which i think is on the high side that will still leave 7 million for the 6 remaining spots.. very doable guadette leivo notte and jake can likely be done for a combined 5.5 million leaves remaining 2 spots as league minimum paid players they numbers can be fine tuned a bit as my projections put the team a couple hundred thousand above the cap the key offseason is not next year anyway it is the following off season and the nucks are well positioned to restructure their roster at that time they can easily retain all key young prospects as they will have a lot of cap available and then rebuild depth around them currently there is 40 million available, plus 2 million or so in cap increase next offseason, and 3 or so the next offseason leaving them with 45 million or perhaps more With Tryamkin likely returning and Juolevi, Brisebois, Sautner, Rafferty etc pushing for spots (as well as Woo and Rathbone likely moving to the AHL next year, it's HIGHLY unlikely IMO that both Tanev AND Stecher are back next year. Whether that's a trade during this season, moving Stecher's RFA rights this summer or letting Tanev simply walk as an 'own rental' UFA...we wait and see. There's a few mil right there either way. Edited November 5, 2019 by aGENT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spur1 Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 A little something for the Benning haters to rinse their mouths out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman64 Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 On 10/15/2019 at 10:44 AM, HerrDrFunk said: Miller has been damn excellent so far. His style of play looks like it was a massive piece of the puzzle that was missing from the team. I certainly don't expect him to be a PPG player the entire season but he looks like the Canucks are getting him exactly as advertised. Myers has been good but I wouldn't count him as home run yet. We still haven't seen the Ferland we all want on the team. His 4 hits last game is something along those lines but so far, we haven't seen the guy who can run roughshod over an opposing team and create space for offense. Myers is a home run most because of his size and he's not a liability on the ice.. that was/is our issue, we need to pair that with a shifty offensive D man on each line, it works! That's why we need Tree back.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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