[Signing] Kings sign Ben Hutton

[Rush17]

He wanted $$. He got what I thought a 1 year show me deal. LA is a great place for him to get ice time. I'm curious if we might see him with Doughty at some point. I could see Drew being a good D man to help shelter him defensively. 

[oldnews]

32 minutes ago, 6string said:

He should get a new agent?

Why?   His agent can't necessarily be blamed.  His agent can't force a team to qualify him.  There was no qualifying offer. 

Hutton wasn't worth the 2.8 he was making.  No trade market for him - and clearly - not much of a UFA market for him either.

For all the talk about arbitration, I think people missed the point - regardless of arbitration, qualifying Hutton would have resulted in too large a salary/cap hit relative to his performance the past few years.

I have to shake my head at the notion that 'everyone' knew he'd get a rais in arbitration....'everyone' in the NHL on the other hand - the 30 other teams that seem to have agreed on his market value - apparently found that opinion way off the mark(et value).

I think Hutton's agent might have actually done alright here - 1.5 is not that bad.

[Provost]

$1.5 or under on a one year deal is what  I figured and posted in the other Hutton thread.

 

He gets a chance to stay in the league.  He probably would have done better if he had renegotiated with the Canucks at the end of the season before we moved on.

 

 

[AlwaysACanuckFan]

Good luck Hutton in LA

 

 

[6string]

2 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Why?   His agent can't necessarily be blamed.  His agent can't force a team to qualify him.  There was no qualifying offer. 

Hutton wasn't worth the 2.8 he was making.  No trade market for him - and clearly - not much of a UFA market for him either.

For all the talk about arbitration, I think people missed the point - regardless of arbitration, qualifying Hutton would have resulted in too large a salary/cap hit relative to his performance the past few years.

I have to shake my head at the notion that 'everyone' knew he'd get a rais in arbitration....'everyone' in the NHL on the other hand - the 30 other teams that seem to have agreed on his market value - apparently found that opinion way off the mark(et value).

I think Hutton's agent might have actually done alright here - 1.5 is not that bad.

I hit a sore spot lol... ( didn't read all of it )

[Jaku]

Eewwwww.. But it's LA.... 

 

 

Other than that I hope Ben finds his groove and becomes a decent top 4 d-man. 

[Provost]

2 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Why?   His agent can't necessarily be blamed.  His agent can't force a team to qualify him.  There was no qualifying offer. 

Hutton wasn't worth the 2.8 he was making.  No trade market for him - and clearly - not much of a UFA market for him either.

For all the talk about arbitration, I think people missed the point - regardless of arbitration, qualifying Hutton would have resulted in too large a salary/cap hit relative to his performance the past few years.

I have to shake my head at the notion that 'everyone' knew he'd get a rais in arbitration....'everyone' in the NHL on the other hand - the 30 other teams that seem to have agreed on his market value - apparently found that opinion way off the mark(et value).

I think Hutton's agent might have actually done alright here - 1.5 is not that bad.

Didn’t we go through this already on the other thread?

 

The team was very worried what he could he awarded in arbitration and admitted as much.  They said he had a good case because of the minutes he was playing.  They didn’t want the risk of having a big number in arbitration they are contractually obliged to accept and had no ability to walk away from.  His agent admitted as much as well.

 

Shake your head all you want, but it was definitely a big factor in the decision.... from the actual horses mouths.

[KanNuck]

2 minutes ago, Provost said:

Didn’t we go through this already on the other thread?

 

The team was very worried what he could he awarded in arbitration and admitted as much.  They said he had a good case because of the minutes he was playing.  They didn’t want the risk of having a big number in arbitration they are contractually obliged to accept and had no ability to walk away from.  His agent admitted as much as well.

 

Shake your head all you want, but it was definitely a big factor in the decision.... from the actual horses mouths.

Ya I agree wtf does this look like the Laffs where we just cave in and pay our guys whatever the **** they want lol.

[luckylager]

He's a good kid, I've always liked him.

You never know, he might just bloom down there.

 

Really liking the look of our new D though. 

 

[mll]

35 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Why?   His agent can't necessarily be blamed.  His agent can't force a team to qualify him.  There was no qualifying offer. 

Hutton wasn't worth the 2.8 he was making.  No trade market for him - and clearly - not much of a UFA market for him either.

For all the talk about arbitration, I think people missed the point - regardless of arbitration, qualifying Hutton would have resulted in too large a salary/cap hit relative to his performance the past few years.

I have to shake my head at the notion that 'everyone' knew he'd get a rais in arbitration....'everyone' in the NHL on the other hand - the 30 other teams that seem to have agreed on his market value - apparently found that opinion way off the mark(et value).

I think Hutton's agent might have actually done alright here - 1.5 is not that bad.

 

His qualifying offer would have been 2.4M - bonuses are not included.  

 

There was no trade market because of arbitration.  Once the player is qualified he can file for arbitration and the team can't walk away if the award is less than 4.4M this year.  

 

His average minutes ranked him top-50 among Ds and minutes are a key argument in arbitration.  Ceci from a year ago was brought up as a comparable his agent could use - he was awarded 4.3M in arbitration.   Those arbitration awards are hardly ever lopsided where the arbitrator goes full for one side - it's often just split down the middle between team ask and player ask.   Hutton had every reason to file rather than accept 2.4M.    

 

Wonder how much LA was offering earlier in the summer.  They were apparently interested in him already at the start of free agency and every update throughout the summer still had them very much interested per Pagnotta / Bernstein of the 4th period.  His agent was saying that they had options.  

 

Edited September 18, 2019 by mll

[BrockBoester]

New top pairing for LA: Doughty-Hutton

 

[oldnews]

13 minutes ago, mll said:

 

His qualifying offer would have been 2.4M - bonuses are not included.  

 

Once the player is qualified he can file for arbitration and the team can't walk away if the award is less than 4.4M this year.  His average minutes ranked him top-50 among Ds and minutes are a key argument in arbitration.  Ceci from a year ago was brought up as a comparable his agent could use - he was awarded 4.3M in arbitration.   Those arbitration awards are hardly ever lopsided where the arbitrator goes full for one side - it's often just split down the middle between team ask and player ask.   Hutton had every reason to file rather than accept 2.4M.    

 

Wonder how much LA was offering earlier in the summer.  They were apparently interested in him already at the start of free agency and every update throughout the summer still had them very much interested per Pagnotta / Bernstein of the 4th period.  His agent was saying that they had options.  

 

All a moot point - and indication of how off the mark most of the speculation was (and not just regarding Hutton - most people here were dramatizing about 50 million deals to Myers, 6 x 6 to Ferland, etc.  

Hutton wasn't worth his qualifying offer imo - regardless of arbitration rights.   I think the market made that pretty clear in the end - no one exactly stepped up to sign Hutton in his q.o. range. let alone what we can speculate a half-baked arbitrator might have awarded him.   His agent saying he had options means next to nothing to me - it looks like 1.5 was his best option - and that is not that surprising.  The 'minutes' argument imo is an exceedingly weak one, that should not hold the kind of water people seem to perceive.  I would have been surprised if no one offered him an NHL contract, but I'm not surprised that he commanded less than guys like Benn in free agency. 

 

[CanuckGAME]

Happy for Hutty.  Wish him all the best.

[theo5789]

Considering there was a rumour that he had an offer from LA closer to July 1st that he supposedly rejected, I wonder if he took a lesser offer out of desperation here. I'd be surprised if Canucks didn't offer the same 2 million offer given to Benn.

 

Good for Hutton to try and stick in the league again on a show me deal, but I can only imagine he overplayed his hand.

[mll]

11 minutes ago, oldnews said:

All a moot point - and indication of how off the mark most of the speculation was (and not just regarding Hutton - most people here were dramatizing about 50 million deals to Myers, 6 x 6 to Ferland, etc.  

Hutton wasn't worth his qualifying offer imo - regardless of arbitration rights.   I think the market made that pretty clear in the end - no one exactly stepped up to sign Hutton in his q.o. range. let alone what we can speculate a half-baked arbitrator might have awarded him.   His agent saying he had options means next to nothing to me - it looks like 1.5 was his best option - and that is not that surprising.  The 'minutes' argument imo is an exceedingly weak one, that should not hold the kind of water people seem to perceive.  I would have been surprised if no one offered him an NHL contract, but I'm not surprised that he commanded less than guys like Benn in free agency. 

 

He wasn't worth his 2.4M and it looks like no team wanted to risk having to give him even more through arbitration.  

 

Arbitrators have to decide based on the facts provided to them during the hearing and can't use prior knowledge of the player or the team.  Not sure they would even have any - they are independent and not part of the NHL.   Minutes are going to play a role.  His side would likely push that he is deployed as a top pairing D and trusted.  

 

This was Poile on Grimaldi's arbitration hearing:  "We go in talking about a player, trying to find every area that shows he can barely play hockey, let alone play in the National Hockey League. And they’re coming in with every comparison to show this is as close to Wayne Gretzky as possible.”

 

It's really whichever side makes the strongest argument.  
 

[iinatcc]

1 hour ago, Dr.BRR said:

happy for Ben. wasn't the 4 million he was rumoured to be asking for but he gets to play!! good luck!!

Ben should fire his agent 

[luckylager]

Well it basically comes down to a Hutton at his QO, which was way too high, or Benn.

JB made the right choice 

And good luck to Ben and Benn

 

Edited September 18, 2019 by luckylager

[luckylager]

1 minute ago, iinatcc said:

Ben should fire his agent 

Because he's only worth 1.5 max?

 

Not his agents fault.

[iinatcc]

16 minutes ago, luckylager said:

Because he's only worth 1.5 max?

 

Not his agents fault.

Well he wasn't worth 4+ but I think a 25 pt defense man that has logged big minutes would make you,  probably, a $3 Million defense man. 

But I think his Agent probably convinced him otherwise early in the off-season.

 

[5Fivehole0]

1 hour ago, oldnews said:

I think that's the 'generous' interpretation (very generous - where Benning doesn't kick Hutton when he's down).  Benning knew there was no market for Hutton (they seemed to try to deal him more than once / not just last deadline and prior to FA) - knew that Hutton had no leverage and was not going to cash in in free agency, in spite of what TSN et al were pumping.

 

I don't think the Canucks would have been interested in Hutton accepting a qualifying offer let alone rejecting one  -  (and if Hutton would not have accepted a qualifying offer, he and his agent should (have) give(n) their heads a serious shake.).    Any arbitrator that would give him more should never work again. 

 

Which is not to say I don't like Hutton, but I've watched as the base here made whipping boys out of Sbisa, Gudbranson, Pouliot, even Edler....while Hutton was for whatever reason fluffed as a 'legit top 4' and a pet project of smarmies of folks that otherwise hated on the remainder of the Canucks tweener D.   Personally, they were all Canucks to me - I want to see each of them succeed and will defend any of them when they're unfairly scapegoated - have no intention of being unfairly critical of Hutton - but the dynamic was bizarre to say the least.

 

Maybe smiling Ben will be a hit in L.A. - he's got the charisma and smile lol.   I see some folks think he'll never be more than a 3rd pairing - I'm not so sure - he has a pretty good toolbox, size, skating, hands, capable coverage, and when his head is in the game, he has pretty good vision.   It'd be nice to see him use L.A. as a stepping stone and move on next summer.

 

 

 

 

 

I liked Pouliots game and wish he could bring his best every night... Because on good nights he was fun to watch. Pouliot would do very well in the KHL, and would probably get paid decently.

 

Sincerly, a D. Pouliot fan.