Standing_Tall#37 Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 3 hours ago, Hutton Wink said: Dubas don't roll like dat, he sets his own trend. Multiple 8-digit long-term salaried players with league-minimum trash in the bottom half of the roster is how you build a championship team. He’s got 40 million to try to keep Barrie, Reilly, Muzzin and Anderson. + ice 15 more players. Something tells me the leafs only year to compete is this year. But who knows... the league will help them slither out of this too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 17 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said: Oh, there was a faction of CDC and especially over in HFBoards that argue Benning sold the farm Which IMO, was completely foolish Must be trolling ... debating over a few 100k one way or the other before the fact is one thing, just like B Horvat, was a fair bridge that within a year or two will look team friendly. BB would have inflated points too playing with Kucherov and the loaded support TB has - best regular season in decades and one of the best ever. Kucherov set the bench mark for points in the cap era - have to back to J Thornton’s bofo year to compare, or even Jagrs best year. By himself he’s still a PPG guy and a great player for sure though. No way Dubas comes out looking good anymore, other GMs have successfully left him holding his you know what - saying “come on guys help me out here”. Laine and Conners camps wont be happy about how things are going they are now the lone big names left. Could see both coming out with bridge deals in the 5-6 range 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 5 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said: this is something that needs balancing. When you get teams like the Panthers with 12 fans enticing players to not play in bigger markets something is wrong with the system. It would be pretty easy to calculate and effective cap balancing percentage to apply to each team. But that doink Bettman won't ever do this. I'm so happy we booed his ass. The only way anything happens is if there's pressure from a good amount of the other owners regarding the tax scenarios. But yeah, unlikely. 5 hours ago, RowdyCanuck said: Tampa is also a cup favourite and Hawks use to sign good players for a mill or what ever spare change they had.... I get the tax break is there but the lightening also have a good team and we did the same with burrows when he was lighting it up and he was on one of the best contracts in the nhl at the time.... when your on a winner , you take less money to stay on a winner.... its all about the cup in the end. There's a huge difference between signing a ufa looking to win on the cheap and getting an rfa at under market value. In this instance it's not so much taking less money because less money in Tampa is the same as a larger amount of money somewhere else thanks to taxes. It's an uneven playing field and that's the issue in a league where parity has been pursued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiznak Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 3 hours ago, Hutton Wink said: Dubas don't roll like dat, he sets his own trend. Multiple 8-digit long-term salaried players with league-minimum trash in the bottom half of the roster is how you build a championship team. I mean, it worked for Chicago in 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyCanuck Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 1 minute ago, Coconuts said: The only way anything happens is if there's pressure from a good amount of the other owners regarding the tax scenarios. But yeah, unlikely. There's a huge difference between signing a ufa looking to win on the cheap and getting an rfa at under market value. In this instance it's not so much taking less money because less money in Tampa is the same as a larger amount of money somewhere else thanks to taxes. It's an uneven playing field and that's the issue in a league where parity has been pursued. When P Kane and Toews signed for less on bridge deals = about points contract. Just because the leafs players got greedy doesn't mean the rest of them are..... I don't buy taxes is a huge sticking point, panthers have sucked for how long? How come ufa's arnt flocking there? Same goes for Dallas before they got good..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 7 minutes ago, RowdyCanuck said: When P Kane and Toews signed for less on bridge deals = about points contract. Just because the leafs players got greedy doesn't mean the rest of them are..... I don't buy taxes is a huge sticking point, panthers have sucked for how long? How come ufa's arnt flocking there? Same goes for Dallas before they got good..... Kane and Toews didn't sign bridge deals. They both signed five year deals for what was pretty good money at the time. Five years ain't a bridge. Could they have gotten a bit more? Kane certainly could have. I never said Point was greedy, but agents are always going to go for the max they feel they can get for their clients. The more the client gets the more they get. Officer Bob thought Florida to be just fine. Yandle chose to sign there. So did Stralman. Connolly and Dadanov spring to mind. Point is Florida does sign guys, some of them being very good players too. There's a lot that factors into choosing where to sign. Florida has sucked forever but it's got tax benefits, anonymity and climate/lifestyle going for them. Are taxes a sticking point? Not necessarily. Do they give teams an edge in negotiating contracts that allow them to better balance their salary and team structure? Absolutely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyCanuck Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, Coconuts said: Kane and Toews didn't sign bridge deals. They both signed five year deals for what was pretty good money at the time. Five years ain't a bridge. Could they have gotten a bit more? Kane certainly could have. I never said Point was greedy, but agents are always going to go for the max they feel they can get for their clients. The more the client gets the more they get. Officer Bob thought Florida to be just fine. Yandle chose to sign there. So did Stralman. Connolly and Dadanov spring to mind. Point is Florida does sign guys, some of them being very good players too. There's a lot that factors into choosing where to sign. Florida has sucked forever but it's got tax benefits, anonymity and climate/lifestyle going for them. Are taxes a sticking point? Not necessarily. Do they give teams an edge in negotiating contracts that allow them to better balance their salary and team structure? Absolutely. Okay they weren't three year deals but still helped their team with taking a lil less. Yea I agree but some clients are hands on and don't just let the agent do their jobs....sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I think Bob got over paid and some players don't want the spotlight....could argue that panthers over paid on some of those contracts..... there's a few places where players enough playing without the spotlight. the bottom part other then the taxes part could be pointed at the Canucks and beautiful b.c, some players come here cause of the city and what it offers. Some players enjoy the spotlight i don't think taxes factor into that much. Players want to win and that's the bottom line and so teams like panthers and how the Canucks use to be before Petey , had to over pay players to come play , it's not really an inside track on other teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devron Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 1 hour ago, janisahockeynut said: Oh, there was a faction of CDC and especially over in HFBoards that argue Benning sold the farm Which IMO, was completely foolish That’s insane. People these days. Geez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, RowdyCanuck said: Okay they weren't three year deals but still helped their team with taking a lil less. Yea I agree but some clients are hands on and don't just let the agent do their jobs....sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I think Bob got over paid and some players don't want the spotlight....could argue that panthers over paid on some of those contracts..... there's a few places where players enough playing without the spotlight. the bottom part other then the taxes part could be pointed at the Canucks and beautiful b.c, some players come here cause of the city and what it offers. Some players enjoy the spotlight i don't think taxes factor into that much. Players want to win and that's the bottom line and so teams like panthers and how the Canucks use to be before Petey , had to over pay players to come play , it's not really an inside track on other teams. They did, but that's not uncommon on an up and coming team with a home grown core like the Hawks had. Laine being a good current example of how that's not always the case of course. Some are, some aren't. Doughty negotiated his own current contract and it sounds like Boeser let his agent take care of things on his end. Different for everyone, I agree with you there. Bob is overpaid, but it was no secret Florida wanted him leading up to UFA. Stralman may be overpaid but he brings value. Yandle's on a great deal considering his offensive production in Florida. Oh certainly, the Canucks have their bits to market too. Some players like the markets that aren't hotbeds, others thrive in em. It doesn't have to be an inside track, it just has to be an advantage. GM's and teams have to try and squeeze everything they can out of their cap space nowadays and fans are voracious for a winning squad. It's why many fans including myself get so bent out of shape over tax advantages some teams have over others, given today's parity league wide every advantage counts. You don't think it's a huge deal and that's fair, but that's why so many folks do have a problem with it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal.view Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: um you are a tax expert ?? please include in your assessment the necessary adjustments for all the days connected to out of town games for each player (there are at least 41 of them regular season) most players have the opportunity to spend additional days away from their home team's jurisdiction during all star break and other cba negotiated breaks (so in most cases those don't count either) simply using home team's city as jurisdiction for taxes is just too simplistic remember torts? he was coach of the nucks was never a resident of bc even his home games in vancouver were away games for him for tax purposes Edited September 24, 2019 by coastal.view Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 3 hours ago, coastal.view said: um you are a tax expert ?? please include in your assessment the necessary adjustments for all the days connected to out of town games for each player (there are at least 41 of them regular season) most players have the opportunity to spend additional days away from their home team's jurisdiction during all star break and other cba negotiated breaks (so in most cases those don't count either) simply using home team's city as jurisdiction for taxes is just too simplistic remember torts? he was coach of the nucks was never a resident of bc even his home games in vancouver were away games for him for tax purposes Um, I did not claim to be a tax expert, I simply posted a tax calculator from Cap Friendly in a tweet where they made the comment. In regards to your post, Tortorella never became a resident of BC, he lived full time in Point Roberts which is part of the US. So he most likely filed duel tax returns on advice from his accountant, or perhaps was able to file a single US tax return. As far as players flying in to other cities for out of town games what does that have to do with their taxes? Are you suggesting a player in Vancouver pays less tax because he is out of town for 41 games? Is that what the Canadian tax code says? As per CRA you are taxed based on your residency not on your citizenship. Does playing games out of town change this and affect your taxes as a result? Are you suggesting players from Vancouver declare themselves as snow birds? Even as a snow bird CRA still considers you a factual resident of Canada, which means you are taxed as if you never left Canada: https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/news/newsroom/tax-tips/tax-tips-2014/you-a-snowbird-know-your-canadian-tax-obligations.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timberz21 Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 18 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: While these tax rates may be accurate, that before any tax planning exercise. These guys have access to the best accountants and tax experts on the planet, I'm sure the difference is less in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toews Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: Um, I did not claim to be a tax expert, I simply posted a tax calculator from Cap Friendly in a tweet where they made the comment. In regards to your post, Tortorella never became a resident of BC, he lived full time in Point Roberts which is part of the US. So he most likely filed duel tax returns on advice from his accountant, or perhaps was able to file a single US tax return. As far as players flying in to other cities for out of town games what does that have to do with their taxes? Are you suggesting a player in Vancouver pays less tax because he is out of town for 41 games? Is that what the Canadian tax code says? As per CRA you are taxed based on your residency not on your citizenship. Does playing games out of town change this and affect your taxes as a result? Are you suggesting players from Vancouver declare themselves as snow birds? Even as a snow bird CRA still considers you a factual resident of Canada, which means you are taxed as if you never left Canada: https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/news/newsroom/tax-tips/tax-tips-2014/you-a-snowbird-know-your-canadian-tax-obligations.html There are loopholes put in place for the rich to avoid paying taxes, its the reality of the world that we live in. Cap Friendly while a useful tool for crunching up numbers on the cap hits, salary, LTIR etc, probably isn't qualified enough to calculate all the ways that contracts and the way they are structured, can help players avoid taxes in the region that they live in. A lot goes into a contract negotiation than simply the number and the term. Players and their agents are in touch with accountants and other experts who can help them maximize their take home pay. Considering the massive amount of $ teams are giving young players up front in signing bonuses, that holds significant value as well. How much exact value is something that I would probably consult an accountant about. Regardless though my point and I believe the OP's point was that aside from the pros, this is simply an issue that is too convoluted for most. Even players probably don't understand the implications behind half the stuff that's in their contract but they have the necessary people in place to look after that stuff while they focus on their craft. Edited September 24, 2019 by Toews 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 2 hours ago, Toews said: There are loopholes put in place for the rich to avoid paying taxes, its the reality of the world that we live in. Cap Friendly while a useful tool for crunching up numbers on the cap hits, salary, LTIR etc, probably isn't qualified enough to calculate all the ways that contracts and the way they are structured, can help players avoid taxes in the region that they live in. A lot goes into a contract negotiation than simply the number and the term. Players and their agents are in touch with accountants and other experts who can help them maximize their take home pay. Considering the massive amount of $ teams are giving young players up front in signing bonuses, that holds significant value as well. How much exact value is something that I would probably consult an accountant about. Regardless though my point and I believe the OP's point was that aside from the pros, this is simply an issue that is too convoluted for most. Even players probably don't understand the implications behind half the stuff that's in their contract but they have the necessary people in place to look after that stuff while they focus on their craft. I agree on all of this. However going back to the post that I responded to I don't think players traveling to other cities affects their tax rates. Loopholes would be generated based on how you structure yourself, are you just a person working 9-5, are you self-employed, are you a sole proprietor, a corporation, have you set up a blind trust, a family trust, how much of your income goes to salary versus bonuses, etc. That's what the accountant is for and everyone will set up their taxes in a different way based on their individual situation. There is nothing in the tax code that says your marginal tax rate will be lower if you spend less time in Vancouver while you are traveling. Even a show bird has to pay full pop and must be careful not to spend more than 182 days outside of Canada or else they will have to file a US tax return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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