Is Citizen Kane not the greatest movie of all time?

[Curmudgeon]

On 9/24/2019 at 4:40 PM, Jimmy McGill said:

Its visually beautiful, but the story itself is a snooze fest. 

Maybe, but you have to understand the context of the movie. It was a thinly veiled takedown of William Randolph Hearst, the veritable inventor of fake news (look it up) and the Rupert Murdoch times ten of his time. He was obscenely wealthy, scouring Europe for whole rooms of castles and ancient buildings for his castle at San Simeon. Welles movie was a searing critique of the corruption, greed and excesses of a man who grew more grasping and shrill as he aged. The Hearst papers in the US, which wielded enormous economic, social and political power, did everything in their power to shred the movie and Welles, but Welles succeeded in making certainly the one of the best films ever made TO THAT DATE. (Gone With the Wind and The Grapes of Wrath are also in that group). Really, though, it is all a matter of opinion, and yours isn't any more, nor any less, valid than mine. 

[JM_]

5 hours ago, Curmudgeon said:

Maybe, but you have to understand the context of the movie. It was a thinly veiled takedown of William Randolph Hearst, the veritable inventor of fake news (look it up) and the Rupert Murdoch times ten of his time. He was obscenely wealthy, scouring Europe for whole rooms of castles and ancient buildings for his castle at San Simeon. Welles movie was a searing critique of the corruption, greed and excesses of a man who grew more grasping and shrill as he aged. The Hearst papers in the US, which wielded enormous economic, social and political power, did everything in their power to shred the movie and Welles, but Welles succeeded in making certainly the one of the best films ever made TO THAT DATE. (Gone With the Wind and The Grapes of Wrath are also in that group). Really, though, it is all a matter of opinion, and yours isn't any more, nor any less, valid than mine. 

I think thats a good point you raise about context. CK is a movie that you have to understand the context to fully appreciate and to me that knocks it down a peg from 'greatest of all time'. I think to be in the running for that a story has to transcend its time and still be powerful. 

 

Compare the endings of each of Kane and Grapes of Wrath. Grapes has has an ending that still powerfully resonates today, even though at the time it was highly controversial (I won't spoil it incase someone here hasn't seen it). Both stories are a bit plodding from todays hyper-realistic movie style but one story still resonates on a human scale far more than the other, imo. 

 

Take the opposite, e.g,. a not so great move that has legs. Star Wars (the first one) was actually a pretty badly acted movie and edited ftm. But the story is classic hero's journey so a lot of people still love it, despite that movies pretty big flaws.

 

@112 have you had a chance to read any of Joseph Campbell's stuff? I think you'd really like it. The Power of Myth and Hero with a 1000 Faces are two things you might like.

 

 

 

Edited October 21, 2019 by Jimmy McGill

[falcon45ca]

16 hours ago, Curmudgeon said:

Maybe, but you have to understand the context of the movie. It was a thinly veiled takedown of William Randolph Hearst, the veritable inventor of fake news (look it up) and the Rupert Murdoch times ten of his time. He was obscenely wealthy, scouring Europe for whole rooms of castles and ancient buildings for his castle at San Simeon. Welles movie was a searing critique of the corruption, greed and excesses of a man who grew more grasping and shrill as he aged. The Hearst papers in the US, which wielded enormous economic, social and political power, did everything in their power to shred the movie and Welles, but Welles succeeded in making certainly the one of the best films ever made TO THAT DATE. (Gone With the Wind and The Grapes of Wrath are also in that group). Really, though, it is all a matter of opinion, and yours isn't any more, nor any less, valid than mine. 

I've been to Hearst Castle, it's &^@#ing sweet.

[Master 112]

11 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I think thats a good point you raise about context. CK is a movie that you have to understand the context to fully appreciate and to me that knocks it down a peg from 'greatest of all time'. I think to be in the running for that a story has to transcend its time and still be powerful. 

 

Compare the endings of each of Kane and Grapes of Wrath. Grapes has has an ending that still powerfully resonates today, even though at the time it was highly controversial (I won't spoil it incase someone here hasn't seen it). Both stories are a bit plodding from todays hyper-realistic movie style but one story still resonates on a human scale far more than the other, imo. 

 

Take the opposite, e.g,. a not so great move that has legs. Star Wars (the first one) was actually a pretty badly acted movie and edited ftm. But the story is classic hero's journey so a lot of people still love it, despite that movies pretty big flaws.

 

@112 have you had a chance to read any of Joseph Campbell's stuff? I think you'd really like it. The Power of Myth and Hero with a 1000 Faces are two things you might like.

 

 

 

I'll check them out and get back to you.

 

I hope they're an easy pirate.

[Master 112]

3 minutes ago, 112 said:

I'll check them out and get back to you.

 

I hope they're an easy pirate.

oooh just realized he did a key to Finnegans Wake I read parts of  a few years ago @Jimmy McGill I do know him!

[luckylager]

You guys are overthinking this with your expansive circle jerk.

 

Don't try to convince me otherwise.

 

I might just drop - Donny Brasco is the best movie of all time. Maybe Usual Suspects is.

 

Crackers ass crackers (except for 112, she's no cracker. Just ranks movies like an elitist blowhard)

[Master 112]

17 minutes ago, luckylager said:

You guys are overthinking this with your expansive circle jerk.

 

Don't try to convince me otherwise.

 

I might just drop - Donny Brasco is the best movie of all time. Maybe Usual Suspects is.

 

Crackers ass crackers (except for 112, she's no cracker. Just ranks movies like an elitist blowhard)

The poll is not in your favour here, lucky. If 6 people out of a sample of 15 think it's the best movie of all time, it probably is by democratic majority considering the many hundreds of movies that are debatably the best. Abductive reasoning supports me.

[luckylager]

34 minutes ago, 112 said:

The poll is not in your favour here, lucky. If 6 people out of a sample of 15 think it's the best movie of all time, it probably is by democratic majority considering the many hundreds of movies that are debatably the best. Abductive reasoning supports me.

Your trickster $&!# is just that.

Tricky

 

Polling indicates a large majority of those polled have no idea how to vote, or what's good for them.

[JM_]

3 hours ago, 112 said:

oooh just realized he did a key to Finnegans Wake I read parts of  a few years ago @Jimmy McGill I do know him!

its good stuff - really interesting if you are into comparative religious ideas and also mythology. 

[Jester13]

Shawshank is a great Stephen King story, but greatest film? Not a chance.

 

Citizen Kane is considered by many to be the best film of all time, but there are some others that give it a run: 2001 A Space Odyssey, Pulp Fiction, The Godfather - these would be my votes. 

[Master 112]

On 11/3/2019 at 5:01 PM, Jester13 said:

Shawshank is a great Stephen King story, but greatest film? Not a chance.

 

Citizen Kane is considered by many to be the best film of all time, but there are some others that give it a run: 2001 A Space Odyssey, Pulp Fiction, The Godfather - these would be my votes. 

Question- why live in reality? What attracts you to it?

[Jester13]

5 minutes ago, 112 said:

Question- why live in reality? What attracts you to it?

It's what keeps me healthy.

[hoggers]

make your own rules