[Waivers] September 30th - 39 players (Baertschi, Goldobin, Biega)

[Aladeen]

1 hour ago, 5Fivehole0 said:

I get retiring numbers for a team, if a player was truly great in their time there. Luongo shouldn't be retired in Van, and I'm a massive Luongo fan, but he didn't quite reach that.

 

Hank and Dank were special, and deserving of having their number retired. 99 retired across the league makes sense, but not Mario, despite him being the 2nd or 3rd best of all time.

For me Mario represented a different way to the top. One that wasn't seemingly laid out for him every step of the way. The story of Mario is one of not just elite skill and talent but that of perseverance.

 

Gretzky cements his place as the best ever, but IMO, the road for him was made as smooth as possible.

 

Mario's ascent to the top seemed to one where he had to scratch and fight and claw his way up. From the get go he was already at a disadvantage because Gretz came before him.

 

Also Mario being Quebecois did not endear him to NHL fans the same way that Gretz had.  We speak of racism now but imagine what it was like in the 80s for a young phenom moving up the ranks of junior. There are stories of him being accosted, ridiculed, being spat at and even having to be escorted out of buildings because parents of opposing team's players wanted to physically hurt him.

 

Some of his own problems were self inflicted like the fact that he smoked while playing at the level he did but growing up in Quebec in the 70s and 80s who didn't?

 

Then the health issues. Gretz never had to deal with the same health issues that plagued Mario. Like I said some self inflicted (smoking) but others not of his making whatsoever (back spasms). In fact there was always sort of an unspoken rule for Gretzky that he was untouchable for the true cheapshots and dirty plays. From the moment Mario hit the ice it was open season on him. 

 

The abuse on-ice that Mario recieved was nothing short of shocking, if you were around to witness it. Clutching, grabbing, cheap shots, but it was all OK because he was a big guy. 

 

Yes it's undeniable that Gretz is the best player in history especially looking at the stats, but Mario's story resonates with a lot of us because of the conditions under which he was able to accomplish what he did. 

 

So the league may not have retired his number but many fans have and if you're going to wear a number that has so much meaning to so many, you better be prepared for the focus and scrutiny that comes with that. If you can't mentally handle it, my advice is simply: don't do it, there are a lot of other numbers out there. 

[5Fivehole0]

8 minutes ago, Aladeen said:

For me Mario represented a different way to the top. One that wasn't seemingly laid out for him every step of the way. The story of Mario is one of not just elite skill and talent but that of perseverance.

 

Gretzky cements his place as the best ever, but IMO, the road for him was made as smooth as possible.

 

Mario's ascent to the top seemed to one where he had to scratch and fight and claw his way up. From the get go he was already at a disadvantage because Gretz came before him.

 

Also Mario being Quebecois did not endear him to NHL fans the same way that Gretz had.  We speak of racism now but imagine what it was like in the 80s for a young phenom moving up the ranks of junior. There are stories of him being accosted, ridiculed, being spat at and even having to be escorted out of buildings because parents of opposing team's players wanted to physically hurt him.

 

Some of his own problems were self inflicted like the fact that he smoked while playing at the level he did but growing up in Quebec in the 70s and 80s who didn't?

 

Then the health issues. Gretz never had to deal with the same health issues that plagued Mario. Like I said some self inflicted (smoking) but others not of his making whatsoever (back spasms). In fact there was always sort of an unspoken rule for Gretzky that he was untouchable for the true cheapshots and dirty plays. From the moment Mario hit the ice it was open season on him. 

 

The abuse on-ice that Mario recieved was nothing short of shocking, if you were around to witness it. Clutching, grabbing, cheap shots, but it was all OK because he was a big guy. 

 

Yes it's undeniable that Gretz is the best player in history especially looking at the stats, but Mario's story resonates with a lot of us because of the conditions under which he was able to accomplish what he did. 

 

So the league may not have retired his number but many fans have and if you're going to wear a number that has so much meaning to so many, you better be prepared for the focus and scrutiny that comes with that. If you can't mentally handle it, my advice is simply: don't do it, there are a lot of other numbers out there. 

Great post. You have changed my mind. Though I think Ho-Sang can take the scrutiny, just doesn't have the skill to back it up.

[PhillipBlunt]

8 minutes ago, Aladeen said:

For me Mario represented a different way to the top. One that wasn't seemingly laid out for him every step of the way. The story of Mario is one of not just elite skill and talent but that of perseverance.

 

Gretzky cements his place as the best ever, but IMO, the road for him was made as smooth as possible.

 

Mario's ascent to the top seemed to one where he had to scratch and fight and claw his way up. From the get go he was already at a disadvantage because Gretz came before him.

 

Also Mario being Quebecois did not endear him to NHL fans the same way that Gretz had.  We speak of racism now but imagine what it was like in the 80s for a young phenom moving up the ranks of junior. There are stories of him being accosted, ridiculed, being spat at and even having to be escorted out of buildings because parents of opposing team's players wanted to physically hurt him.

 

Some of his own problems were self inflicted like the fact that he smoked while playing at the level he did but growing up in Quebec in the 70s and 80s who didn't?

 

Then the health issues. Gretz never had to deal with the same health issues that plagued Mario. Like I said some self inflicted (smoking) but others not of his making whatsoever (back spasms). In fact there was always sort of an unspoken rule for Gretzky that he was untouchable for the true cheapshots and dirty plays. From the moment Mario hit the ice it was open season on him. 

 

The abuse on-ice that Mario recieved was nothing short of shocking, if you were around to witness it. Clutching, grabbing, cheap shots, but it was all OK because he was a big guy. 

 

Yes it's undeniable that Gretz is the best player in history especially looking at the stats, but Mario's story resonates with a lot of us because of the conditions under which he was able to accomplish what he did. 

 

So the league may not have retired his number but many fans have and if you're going to wear a number that has so much meaning to so many, you better be prepared for the focus and scrutiny that comes with that. If you can't mentally handle it, my advice is simply: don't do it, there are a lot of other numbers out there. 

If Lemieux hadn’t have had to deal with Hodgkin’s disease, he might have eclipsed Gretzky. Mario didn’t need anyone to protect him and accomplished so much of his stellar achievements without the aid of linemates willing to punch anyone who touched him out. 

[Aladeen]

2 minutes ago, 5Fivehole0 said:

Great post. You have changed my mind. Though I think Ho-Sang can take the scrutiny, just doesn't have the skill to back it up.

Agreed. Elite skill, IMO, is part of the requirement to use that number. Also, Mario always conducted himself humbly and with humility, I would say that would be another requirement to use that number, again something Ho-Sang seems to lack, but maybe being waived will help in that area. 

[5Fivehole0]

2 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

If Lemieux hadn’t have had to deal with Hodgkin’s disease, he might have eclipsed Gretzky. Mario didn’t need anyone to protect him and accomplished so much of his stellar achievements without the aid of linemates willing to punch anyone who touched him out. 

I didn't realize Lemieux dealt with the francophobic people...

 

There's only two things in this world I can't stand. People who can't tolerate other peoples culture, and the Dutch.

[apollo]

The Bulldog clearing is the biggest blessing to Canucks nation. Bulldog is top 6 material. 

 

Long live the Bulldog! 

[oldnews]

On 10/1/2019 at 3:55 PM, Virtanen#18 said:

Hope I'm wrong but Green and JB will likely have them reversed. 

I don't know why you'd think Green and JB would have them reversed.  Why would Motte, the 23 year old who outperformed Schaller by virtually every measure (more productive, more hits, more blocks, lower ozone starts, more takeaways, better relative shot/'possession' metrics, better on-ice goal metrics (lower on ice goals against, higher on ice goals for....)  - why would Motte be the placeholder, while the veteran, who, again, was outperformed by virtually every measure, made more/cost more cap space, 5 years older - would be the 'keeper'?     Makes no sense to me - nor does assuming Green and JB would have that reversed.

[GhostsOf1994]

2 hours ago, Aladeen said:

For me Mario represented a different way to the top. One that wasn't seemingly laid out for him every step of the way. The story of Mario is one of not just elite skill and talent but that of perseverance.

 

Gretzky cements his place as the best ever, but IMO, the road for him was made as smooth as possible.

 

Mario's ascent to the top seemed to one where he had to scratch and fight and claw his way up. From the get go he was already at a disadvantage because Gretz came before him.

 

Also Mario being Quebecois did not endear him to NHL fans the same way that Gretz had.  We speak of racism now but imagine what it was like in the 80s for a young phenom moving up the ranks of junior. There are stories of him being accosted, ridiculed, being spat at and even having to be escorted out of buildings because parents of opposing team's players wanted to physically hurt him.

 

Some of his own problems were self inflicted like the fact that he smoked while playing at the level he did but growing up in Quebec in the 70s and 80s who didn't?

 

Then the health issues. Gretz never had to deal with the same health issues that plagued Mario. Like I said some self inflicted (smoking) but others not of his making whatsoever (back spasms). In fact there was always sort of an unspoken rule for Gretzky that he was untouchable for the true cheapshots and dirty plays. From the moment Mario hit the ice it was open season on him. 

 

The abuse on-ice that Mario recieved was nothing short of shocking, if you were around to witness it. Clutching, grabbing, cheap shots, but it was all OK because he was a big guy. 

 

Yes it's undeniable that Gretz is the best player in history especially looking at the stats, but Mario's story resonates with a lot of us because of the conditions under which he was able to accomplish what he did. 

 

So the league may not have retired his number but many fans have and if you're going to wear a number that has so much meaning to so many, you better be prepared for the focus and scrutiny that comes with that. If you can't mentally handle it, my advice is simply: don't do it, there are a lot of other numbers out there. 

You seem to forget that mario was debated early on as either a goon or a scorer and he needed to decide on what type of player he wanted to be.

[oldnews]

2 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

If Lemieux hadn’t have had to deal with Hodgkin’s disease, he might have eclipsed Gretzky. Mario didn’t need anyone to protect him and accomplished so much of his stellar achievements without the aid of linemates willing to punch anyone who touched him out. 

Not going to argue that Mario didn't suffer health problems, or that he wasn't the receiver of a great deal of on-ice punishment (great players always do, particularly ones that go to and play in the hard areas - even moreso in that generation - something people of this generation might understand if they watch what the Sedins endured in a much less punishing, physical era of hockey.  

But at the same time there was something additional about Lemieux's game that limited his greatness, and was within his control = he was a relatively vacant player without the puck - a premier floater.   You can afford to do that though, when you are surrounded by Hall of Fame talent - as he was in Pittsburgh (if you look back at some of the Pens rosters in their contending years = those were insane lineups.   Lemieux certainly wasn't alone in either sense - being principally a one-way player, or being surrounded by talent - however, this is a principal reason I don't consider him to be the '2nd greatest' player of all-time.  For me, that discussion excludes far too many players - guys like Bryan Trottier - who were remarkably productive but also played a different kind of minutes.   Anyhow - it's not so much a point of trying to minimize the talent of a guy like Lemieux - but I think it's always worth asking - what could that player have been if they'd engaged in the same way on the other side of the puck?  I think guys like the Sedins were somewhat naturally limited (by speed primarily, and somewhat by disposition/limited physicality).  Lemieux on the other hand was just gifted - and in a similar sense it always drove me nuts that Bertuzzi was such a vacant player without the puck (ie imagine if he'd asserted himself - the kind of impact a two-way Bertuzzi would/could have had).     The game was evolving in a way that was reminds me of the influence of Bowman on Yzerman's game - ie told him that if he wanted to be truly great, he'd sacrifice some production to try to become an elite defensive player - to combine those elements to his game to become a true two-way champion.  I guess if I have a bias in that sense, it's towards that kind of game - something Lemieux (and lots of others who I think are likewise over-rated) imo just did not have.

[Ballisticsports.]

2 hours ago, 5Fivehole0 said:

I didn't realize Lemieux dealt with the francophobic people...

 

There's only two things in this world I can't stand. People who can't tolerate other peoples culture, and the Dutch.

If he did, then so must have Lafleur, Rocket Richard, Dionne - The list is long of great Francophones

First I heard of it myself

[Aladeen]

31 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said:

If he did, then so must have Lafleur, Rocket Richard, Dionne - The list is long of great Francophones

First I heard of it myself

Then you should read Mario’s Biography because it’s well covered in there.

[CanadianRugby]

On 10/1/2019 at 5:17 PM, canuck73_3 said:

Edler has never missed half the season

Sutter and Tanev are a big part of the PK. Baertschi is fairly one dimensional. 

 

We also don't have permanent full time replacements for the 3 players you mentioned. 

There are a lot of reasons you could list why this move was the right one or why it wasn't.  A call had to be made.  So I get what you're saying, I just don't think being a defensive guy that can't score is any less one dimensional than a guy that can score but can't play d.  

 

The Canucks bottom 6 is mostly guys that can't score, they're a dime a dozen even though we're apparently paying our 4th line $12+ million/year?  Anyway, maybe I'm just a bigger fan of Baer than you.  He's more deserving, IMO, of a spot than some of the other guys.  I don't think that shows a good example.  

[canuck73_3]

1 minute ago, CanadianRugby said:

There are a lot of reasons you could list why this move was the right one or why it wasn't.  A call had to be made.  So I get what you're saying, I just don't think being a defensive guy that can't score is any less one dimensional than a guy that can score but can't play d.  

 

The Canucks bottom 6 is mostly guys that can't score, they're a dime a dozen even though we're apparently paying our 4th line $12+ million/year?  Anyway, maybe I'm just a bigger fan of Baer than you.  He's more deserving, IMO, of a spot than some of the other guys.  I don't think that shows a good example.  

Sutter is a Centre Baer is not, so they were never competing for a spot in the first place. 

 

Edler and Tanev are dmen so they're irrelevant to Baer’s position on the team.

 

I think Baertschi would have made the team if he had better luck with health in his career to this point. 

 

As for being a bigger fan of Baertschi I came from Campbell River to Abbotsford to see him as a Heat prospect play Grand Rapids as he was one of my favourite prospects at that time. Not like I dislike the guy or anything the team seems to value 200ft players in the bottom 6. 

 

Hopefully he can find his way back preferably as a replacement for a traded Loui

 

 

[5Fivehole0]

6 hours ago, ba;;isticsports said:

If he did, then so must have Lafleur, Rocket Richard, Dionne - The list is long of great Francophones

First I heard of it myself

Didn't all those guy play for the Canadiens?

[filthycanuck]

13 hours ago, CanuckGAME said:

 

The #66 has nothing to do with the NY Islanders.  Why the **** cant he wear it?

 

Its actually sad that people think this way about numbers.  If I was an NHLer I would want to wear #19 in honor of my favorite player, Markus Naslund.  Not as a sign of disrespect,  but as a sign of respect.  Numbers shouldn't even be retired.  They should just be hung from the rafters to remember but the players should continue to be able to wear them.

In the NHLs yester-years wearing a high number was considered almost taboo, unwanted and unnecessary attention. Numbers between 1-30 were so common. Like the #19, it was worn by many great players, Sakic, Naslund, Yzerman just to name a few and theres many more that wore it. Thats the difference. When you make an impact like a Gretzky or a Lemieux and you were the first to wear a certain high number, you're legend is tied to that number. If Ho-Sang was a phenom coming to the league, there might be some acceptance, but fact is he doesn't. He needed the talent to back up wearing that number because as I mentioned before, unwanted attention, if the only other guy that wore 66 was a top 3 player all time, theres not much players you can compare that too. If Tim Schaller decided to wear 99, trust me, he'd be the laughing stock of the league

[mll]

 

[189lb enforcers?]

Mr. Lahey told us that, “a shiit Leopard can’t change its spots”. 

 

Hard pass.

No way he finds work. 

[NHL97OneTimer]

On 10/2/2019 at 12:25 PM, 5Fivehole0 said:

I get retiring numbers for a team, if a player was truly great in their time there. Luongo shouldn't be retired in Van, and I'm a massive Luongo fan, but he didn't quite reach that.

 

Hank and Dank were special, and deserving of having their number retired. 99 retired across the league makes sense, but not Mario, despite him being the 2nd or 3rd best of all time.

That's a very subjective answer....yes to Gretzky but no to Mario.  Where then is the line drawn?  That's the issue. There's pros and cons to everything and I agree that it would be nice for a player to pay tribute  by wearing #19 or whatever.....but it's probably best left the way it is.  There will never be another Trevor Linden or Markus Naslund.....that's the most respectful message you can make.

[the grinder]

23 hours ago, filthycanuck said:

In the NHLs yester-years wearing a high number was considered almost taboo, unwanted and unnecessary attention. Numbers between 1-30 were so common. Like the #19, it was worn by many great players, Sakic, Naslund, Yzerman just to name a few and theres many more that wore it. Thats the difference. When you make an impact like a Gretzky or a Lemieux and you were the first to wear a certain high number, you're legend is tied to that number. If Ho-Sang was a phenom coming to the league, there might be some acceptance, but fact is he doesn't. He needed the talent to back up wearing that number because as I mentioned before, unwanted attention, if the only other guy that wore 66 was a top 3 player all time, theres not much players you can compare that too. If Tim Schaller decided to wear 99, trust me, he'd be the laughing stock of the league

[Salacious Crumb]

On 10/3/2019 at 12:51 PM, 189lb enforcers? said:

Mr. Lahey told us that, “a shiit Leopard can’t change its spots”. 

 

Hard pass.

No way he finds work. 

The PC crowd has suggested we use the term “poop puddy”.