Potential weaknesses in the Canucks line-up, and how to overcome them

[Tre Mac]

Potential Weaknesses:

 

- Arena Music

- Jerseys

- Bottom Six

- Third Pairing D

- Goaltending

 

 

[flat land fish]

We could always roll Edler Tanev as shutdown option if we want to turn Myers Hughes loose as an offense first pairing

1 minute ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

1) I'm not sure if there's much we can do here besides wait for Pettersson to reach his prime. If Ferland is not on that line, he becomes another meat and potatoes guy lower in the lineup who can't generate his own offense all that well, so getting the most use out of him is fine by me. I agree that Miller would make that line better, but I think it would make our other lines worse. 

 

2) This has been the hot topic everywhere recently. Our bottom 6 was bad last year and it seems as though Green and Benning are comfortable going back with essentially the same unit. I really don't know how to justify this to be honest. 

 

 

 

I'm really not sure how anyone can justify having Eriksson still be on this team in particular. Killing penalties is not enough to warrant a spot with horrendous 5 on 5 play.

 

In my eyes, the third line out of camp should have been Baertschi - Gaudette - Leivo, leaving the 4th line as Pearson - Beagle - Sutter/Virtanen. 

 

3) Right now, our most defensively oriented pairing is probably Benn - Stetcher. I don't think our defense is built to have a dedicated shut down pairing though and Edler will still eat some hard minutes. I understand where you're coming from, but it's not as big of a concern for me right now. Also, I don't think we have many defensemen who are good enough to be on a shut down pair anyways (ideally it wouldn't include Benn). 

 

[Dekey Pete]

11 hours ago, Hindustan Smyl said:

Potential weaknesses in the Canucks line-up, and how to overcome them.

 

As of right now, I see three potential weaknesses in the Canucks’ line-up:

 

1) A lack of a dominant top line.

2) A lack of bottom 6 scoring (namely,

the 3rd line).

3) A lack of a true shut down pairing

 

 

1) Brock and Elias say hi!

2) The hockey Gaud says hi!

[Haydnucks]

Ferland is the perfect fit on the top line. That net front presence is key on a line with 2 laser beam shots coming from both sides, he can take the punishment and finish. The protection aspect he provides is huge. Miller on that line is a nice option, especially if Petey is having a bad period or game in the face off dot. Might be something to look for late in games with key ozone starts.

[canuktravella]

3 hours ago, IBatch said:

See my post above.   It may be flawed but the premise is valid (the OP).   We won’t score enough to win that way, we have to be better defensively and improve our special teams for this lineup to work the way it’s set up.   Our top two lines are taking the bulk of the scoring on their shoulders (again), thankfully they are both better, more seasoned and our core is far from peaking yet (we should expect some progression).  EP turning into a superstar  will help a lot, same with BB turning into a Taresenko type (he’s not far off now).  

 

Our bottom six is questionable.  It’s almost like we have a modest first line, and elite second line, and two very good  fourth lines ATM.  If we had an actual third scoring line that could match up to the likes of TB and CAL, we’d be in much better shape.   It should arrive in two or maybe three years internally, that team is going to be a much better version of the one we have now.   

 

It feels a little like the year we got Luongo....you can sense great things are coming - but know there is still some work to do.

your assuming  virtanen and gaudette  dont improve at all and that we get injured sutter and tanev healthy will help as will increased offense on d by myers, benn hughes   our pp should be lethal with petey hughes boeser  running the show im not worried  bout scoring   time will tell

[Gollumpus]

12 hours ago, Hindustan Smyl said:

1) A lack of a dominant top line.

2) A lack of bottom 6 scoring (namely,

the 3rd line).

3) A lack of a true shut down pairing

1.) And if the Pettersson line does become dominant sooner rather than later? I'm not suggesting that they will be the top scoring line this season, but I do see them being one of the better lines (barring injury etc).

 

2.) How much bottom six scoring do we need? Serious question.  In 2010 - 11 the third line (Hansen, Malhotra, Torres) scored 34 goals. The Canucks finished at the top of the NHL in points and goals (262). In 2011 - 12 the third line (Hansen, Higgins, Malhotra) scored 41 goals. Some offensive production is good, but if the third line if "dominant" in a shut down capacity, I find that to be preferable.

 

Just to cherry pick here, in 2015 the third line (Sutter, got 17 goals as the 3C) scored somewhere in the range of  40+ goals over the varied number of guys who played there.

 

3.) I don't see the Canucks having a shutdown pairing without getting additional help on the defense. Hughes could be seen as a shut down d-man if that was defined as a guy who can help keep possession in the offensive zone. If we are talking about defensive play then there are still problems with this team.

 

                                                                                    regards,  G.

[IBatch]

25 minutes ago, canuktravella said:

your assuming  virtanen and gaudette  dont improve at all and that we get injured sutter and tanev healthy will help as will increased offense on d by myers, benn hughes   our pp should be lethal with petey hughes boeser  running the show im not worried  bout scoring   time will tell

Just was trying to say this team has good bones, compared it to the one we had when Luongo first came - it just needs some time to marinate, grow and start tweaking in a year or two to finish things up.   Absolutely JV could finally put it all together - and AG could translate his pre-season play into the regular season ... or JV loses his job and AG has a modest but not spectacular season.   A lot would have to go right for us to make the playoffs and win a round at this point but it’s definetly possible.  

 

If the core takes another step everything will work out fine too.   And the additions have helped each line get better.  Glad the season is starting today ...

[IBatch]

5 minutes ago, Gollumpus said:

1.) And if the Pettersson line does become dominant sooner rather than later? I'm not suggesting that they will be the top scoring line this season, but I do see them being one of the better lines (barring injury etc).

 

2.) How much bottom six scoring do we need? Serious question.  In 2010 - 11 the third line (Hansen, Malhotra, Torres) scored 34 goals. The Canucks finished at the top of the NHL in points and goals (262). In 2011 - 12 the third line (Hansen, Higgins, Malhotra) scored 41 goals. Some offensive production is good, but if the third line if "dominant" in a shut down capacity, I find that to be preferable.

 

Just to cherry pick here, in 2015 the third line (Sutter, got 17 goals as the 3C) scored somewhere in the range of  40+ goals over the varied number of guys who played there.

 

3.) I don't see the Canucks having a shutdown pairing without getting additional help on the defense. Hughes could be seen as a shut down d-man if that was defined as a guy who can help keep possession in the offensive zone. If we are talking about defensive play then there are still problems with this team.

 

                                                                                    regards,  G.

Ferland, Miller, Myers, Pearson and Benn displaced five regulars from the start of last year.   Out defensively challenged Guddy, Hutton and Pouilet (ok six guys actually).   Same with Bear, Goldobin and when Roussel gets back one more guy.  Oh yeah place AG that’s 8 guys.   AND the best part it’s affecting all the lines and pairings, not just the bottom six like years past.  

 

Based on the averages over the past two seasons,  it could add 25-35 goals and reduce goals by close to the same.   That’s a serious organizational change.  Could take a month or so to click - but when it does we will facing the top goalies on other teams on an ongoing basis. 

[Bure_Pavel]

Need Ferland on first line to protect Petey. 

[Davathor]

Eriksson - Petersson- motte

Ferland - gaudette - schaller

Miller - beagle - myers

Boeser - Sutter- virtanen

[spook007]

You may be right, but maybe, just maybe let them play 10-15 games before we call them out...

I really hope Bo has a proper top 6 winger this season...the whole season.

[canuktravella]

5 hours ago, IBatch said:

Just was trying to say this team has good bones, compared it to the one we had when Luongo first came - it just needs some time to marinate, grow and start tweaking in a year or two to finish things up.   Absolutely JV could finally put it all together - and AG could translate his pre-season play into the regular season ... or JV loses his job and AG has a modest but not spectacular season.   A lot would have to go right for us to make the playoffs and win a round at this point but it’s definetly possible.  

 

If the core takes another step everything will work out fine too.   And the additions have helped each line get better.  Glad the season is starting today ...

ya we either sink or swim i am hoping virtanen takes it to another level and gaudette to if these guys play well. we can up tanev and sutters value and send them packing at deadline    im hoping we suprise everyone if not we miss playoffs and  maybe a chance at drafting lafreniere who looked decent last yr at his first world juniors  this kids gonna be a star 

[IBatch]

3 minutes ago, canuktravella said:

ya we either sink or swim i am hoping virtanen takes it to another level and gaudette to if these guys play well. we can up tanev and sutters value and send them packing at deadline    im hoping we suprise everyone if not we miss playoffs and  maybe a chance at drafting lafreniere who looked decent last yr at his first world juniors  this kids gonna be a star 

You bet.  Funny how a fan can carry some of managements pressure, just like they carry the teams ups and downs with them.  JB let out a huge pile of steam with his moves this summer, and in a way the team has two possibilities - both paths have merit- get a round or two in and some experience under their belt OR hopefully draft another winner who won’t take long to get to the show.  A little breathing room and growing room for sure.

 

Next year if we miss the playoffs - the pressure will be pretty intense.  JB probably bet his own future on things working out, but the bottom line is we have two cracks at it and after that if this lineup can’t get it done serious changes are coming.   I feel pretty confident the team will make it though - if not next year ever more so.

[oldnews]

9 hours ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

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This is one of the most ignorant claims - and worst analogies - I've seen in a long time.

 

 

Edited October 3, 2019 by oldnews

[Noble 6]

2 hours ago, oldnews said:

This is one of the most ignorant claims - and worst analogies - I've seen in a long time.

 

 

How so? Harman Dayal uses a lot of numbers and analytics to back up his claims. 

[brian42]

This would add scoring: 

 

I’ve always wanted a bottom 6 of:

3- Baer Gaudette Leivo/Virtanen 

4- Sutter Beagle Motte 

 

anyone saying what about pk:

Pk1 Sutter Motte

pk2 Leivo Beagle 

pk3 Horvat Pearson

 

Baertschi can take either Leivo or Pearson’s spot on the power play 

 

I understand waiving Baertschi due to cap savings but he’s our 5th best offensive forward behind Petterson Boeser Horvat Miller 

 

also the PP2 is lacking a play maker.

 

When leading after 2 periods the Canucks could switch Gaudette with Sutter so Sutter can Centre the 3rd line and beagle the 4th

[Pickly]

Sutter has gotta go as the third line center. Let Gaudette have it. 

[iceman64]

On 10/1/2019 at 10:19 PM, MattJVD said:

We have a great 1st line, two young stars and a tough complementary player. Bo as a 2nd line centre is perfect, and Miller on his wing is good. An upgrade on the other wing on the 2nd line would be nice, but it's not critical right now. Consistancy from the 3rd liners is a big need, I'd want 30 points out of each of those guys to call the forward group deep. 

 

Biggest need is still a #1 dman. Quinn might be a high-end offensive D, but we need a well rounded legit top pair D man more than anything. Edler is decent in this role if he could stay healthy. But he's no spring chicken and I wouldn't count on him continuing to be that player for seasons to come.

You nailed the reason why LE and his 6 mil plus that of Luongo really really hurts us, that kind of bling together would net us a fairly elite-ish Dman who can take over and quarterback important game situations that we can't afford to lose if we want post season this year BUT this team also needs a bit of gel time, Ferland is new with Petey and Flow and Miller is new with Bo.. and on D we have 4 new guys so it will take a few games to warm up but as the season progresses we'll get better and better..  meh, not concerned.. and there's only one way up from here especially in the next 3 season's and we have the final touches as the extra money is brought in with 9 mil off the books and whatever cap space by then until we're satisfied with whatever the roster we have by then but in the meantime as we get there, should be fun to watch!

[Gollumpus]

22 minutes ago, iceman64 said:

You nailed the reason why LE and his 6 mil plus that of Luongo really really hurts us, that kind of bling together would net us a fairly elite-ish Dman who can take over and quarterback important game situations that we can't afford to lose if we want post season this year BUT this team also needs a bit of gel time, Ferland is new with Petey and Flow and Miller is new with Bo.. and on D we have 4 new guys so it will take a few games to warm up but as the season progresses we'll get better and better..  meh, not concerned.. and there's only one way up from here especially in the next 3 season's and we have the final touches as the extra money is brought in with 9 mil off the books and whatever cap space by then until we're satisfied with whatever the roster we have by then but in the meantime as we get there, should be fun to watch!

Serious questions here:

 

What kind of money, and what kind of term do you see for this?

 

Isn't this the sort of situation that the team would want Hughes to grow in to, and wouldn't then having this other guy on a longer term deal cut in to Hughes long term development? Plus, if there is concern over the Eriksson caphit and re-signing the team's future RFAs/UFAs, how does that problem go away with this UFA d-man signing? Trading the guy when he is no longer wanted isn't always as simple a solution as some make it out to be.

 

And if the idea would be to offer a shorter term, then isn't there a good chance that the UFA would look elsewhere, or demand a much greater amount of money than the team might want to spend?

 

                                                                                regards,  G.

[iceman64]

2 minutes ago, Gollumpus said:

Serious questions here:

 

What kind of money, and what kind of term do you see for this?

 

Isn't this the sort of situation that the team would want Hughes to grow in to, and wouldn't then having this other guy on a longer term deal cut in to Hughes long term development? Plus, if there is concern over the Eriksson caphit and re-signing the team's future RFAs/UFAs, how does that problem go away with this UFA d-man signing? Trading the guy when he is no longer wanted isn't always as simple a solution as some make it out to be.

 

And if the idea would be to offer a shorter term, then isn't there a good chance that the UFA would look elsewhere, or demand a much greater amount of money than the team might want to spend?

 

                                                                                regards,  G.

Well first off, that assumes QH's defence game grows and catches up with his offense and that may not quite work out as hoped.. that's too much of a gamble not to have a plan b approach like I mentioned. I certainly think it's not impossible for him but what if his D game is just average at this level which then makes him a 2nd line D which comes at a cheaper price but there's 9 mil of cap space plus the raises in the meantime (next 3 yrs that should be covered by cap raises) and contracts we will dump before that too.