Potential weaknesses in the Canucks line-up, and how to overcome them

[5Fivehole0]

On 10/1/2019 at 9:53 PM, MJDDawg said:

Francesco on line 3, wanting to know why he's paying a GM, Assistant GM, Scouting and Coaching staffs when he could simply pay just you instead.

 

 

 

 

Who is on line 1 and 2?

[Badbag]

 Just switch Horvat and Petterson....thank me later. 

[teepain]

potential weakness 

 

 

 

 

 

sutter

[Matt_T83]

We need to stop putting grinders with elite players. Ferland and Pearson are not acceptable 1st and 2nd line players. The Canucks have no legitimate left wing players at all. The team needs to trade for #1 and #2 left wing players.

 

X-EP-Boeser

X-Horvat-Virtanen

 

That needs to be our top 2 lines. And if Virtanen can't cut it, the team needs to trade for a #2 RW as well. We need to stop wasting time with inferior lineups and fix our team.

[HomeBrew]

16 minutes ago, Matt_T83 said:

We need to stop putting grinders with elite players. Ferland and Pearson are not acceptable 1st and 2nd line players. The Canucks have no legitimate left wing players at all. The team needs to trade for #1 and #2 left wing players.

 

X-EP-Boeser

X-Horvat-Virtanen

 

That needs to be our top 2 lines. And if Virtanen can't cut it, the team needs to trade for a #2 RW as well. We need to stop wasting time with inferior lineups and fix our team.

JT Miller is definitely a top 6 quality player on LW. The other guys will basically be filler until Hogz and Podz make the team.

 

Ideally, I see this in 2 years time:

 

Hogz - EP - Podz

Miller - Horvat - Boeser

[Matt_T83]

32 minutes ago, HomeBrew said:

JT Miller is definitely a top 6 quality player on LW. The other guys will basically be filler until Hogz and Podz make the team.

 

Ideally, I see this in 2 years time:

 

Hogz - EP - Podz

Miller - Horvat - Boeser

You mean the JT Miller that mostly got points from assists on other players goals last year? The JT Miller that benefited from a deeply offensively talented Lightning team? 

 

When the other team is desperately trying to shut down your top 2 lines, a 3rd liner like JT Miller can get a lot more open ice and put up some points. He's an average 3rd line player that had an above average year last year. The Lightning were smart and sold him while his value was high.

 

This is the exact same as Anson Carter after he had his career year with the Sedin twins. Overvalued. 

 

If I'm wrong, I will gladly apologize to you and proclaim myself an idiot. But I do not believe that I'm wrong. JT Miller is an overpaid 3rd liner.

Edited October 7, 2019 by Matt_T83

[HomeBrew]

29 minutes ago, Matt_T83 said:

You mean the JT Miller that mostly got points from assists on other players goals last year? The JT Miller that benefited from a deeply offensively talented Lightning team? 

 

When the other team is desperately trying to shut down your top 2 lines, a 3rd liner like JT Miller can get a lot more open ice and put up some points. He's an average 3rd line player that had an above average year last year. The Lightning were smart and sold him while his value was high.

 

This is the exact same as Anson Carter after he had his career year with the Sedin twins. Overvalued. 

 

If I'm wrong, I will gladly apologize to you and proclaim myself an idiot. But I do not believe that I'm wrong. JT Miller is an overpaid 3rd liner.

I look forward to the day that you openly proclaim yourself an idiot.

[Matt_T83]

4 minutes ago, HomeBrew said:

I look forward to the day that you openly proclaim yourself an idiot.

:D I'll at least wait to see this season before I make that statement. If JT Miller can play 70-80 games we should have our answer.

 

Also, just to be clear, what is the expected output of an "average" 2nd line player? I know this is always debated. Do we have numbers for what a decent 2nd line player should do? 20 goals? 60 points? 70 points? And what TOI should we expect? 

 

I would personally expect a decent 2nd line player to put up 20-25 goals* with 15-20 minutes average TOI and 60-70 points. The +/- doesn't matter quite so much, since that does depend a lot on other players on the ice with him.

Edited October 7, 2019 by Matt_T83

[NHL97OneTimer]

On 10/6/2019 at 12:30 PM, Duodenum said:

Miller-Pettersson-Pearson

Baertschi-Horvat-Boeser

Ferland-Gaudette-Virtanen

Roussell-Beagle-Sutter

 

Feel like this could be a good option. Reunite the BHB line. Miller is a much better puck handler than Pete's current linemates.

Third scoring line.

 

Nope...not a fan of Pearson with Pettersson.  You have two good players with Elias here, but the skill needs to be there too.  Someone dangerous who can fill the net which forces the other team to not smother Pettersson so much.  I think Miller is great on that top line but Pearson and Horvat are a good duo.  I like the current lineup but hope Ferland can pick his game up to play with Horvat.  If Gaudette and Virtanen can get it going, this team will be in decent shape this year.

[CptCanuck16]

On 10/1/2019 at 9:18 PM, Hindustan Smyl said:

Miller-Pettersson-Boeser

Pearson-Horvat(c)-Leivo (Eriksson)

Ferland-Sutter (Gaudette) - Virtanen

Schaller-Beagle-Motte

I believe these were the line combos against Philly on Saturday (minus Motte and plus Guadette).  Here is what I noticed;

 

Leivo was atrocious and doesn't belong on the 2nd line. 

Miller and Ferland were both invisible. 

 

I say leave Miller with Horvat and Pearson because they all have proven chemistry and move Guadette to the top line with EP40 and Boes. Let Guadette go in and fight for pucks in the corner instead of Pettersson doing the dirty work.

[CptCanuck16]

On 10/7/2019 at 11:53 AM, Matt_T83 said:

Also, just to be clear, what is the expected output of an "average" 2nd line player? I know this is always debated. Do we have numbers for what a decent 2nd line player should do? 20 goals? 60 points? 70 points? And what TOI should we expect? 

Personally what I would like to see is EP40, Boeser, Bo, Miller, Ferlund, and Pearson all put up between 20-30 goals. That gives you 2 dangerous 1A and 1B type lines. Guys like Sutter, Guadette, and Virtanen should chip in 10 each and guys like Lievo, Beagle, Motte, Erickson will have less than 10.

[WeneedLumme]

On October 7, 2019 at 11:52 AM, HomeBrew said:

I look forward to the day that you openly proclaim yourself an idiot.

If he was honest, he would have already done so. Anyone who claims to believe that 70 points or 25 goals is second line production is obviously an idiot. I guess spending a minute on NHL.com to check simple statistics is too complicated for some people.

Edited October 14, 2019 by WeneedLumme

[higgyfan]

1 hour ago, WeneedLumme said:

If he was honest, he would have already done so. Anyone who claims to believe that 70 points or 25 goals is second line production is obviously an idiot. I guess spending a minute on NHL.com to check simple statistics is too complicated for some people.

Ridiculous expectations for a 2nd liner.   Almost all nhl teams have a huge drop off in player points after their 1st line; usually drops down around 45-55pts. 

 

It seems that many fans misread JTs stats.  If one looks at them correctly, they will find that Miller had 3 seasons in a row where he scored 22, 22, & 23 *( he played for the Rangers and Lightning in one season) goals. 

 

In two of those seasons, Miller's combined totals tallied 56 & 57.  These are clearly not 3rd line stats.  Yet in his final year with TB, he played on the 3rd line and still managed to be the 6th highest in points.  The Lightening team is loaded with good forwards, but when you look closely, they have an overabundance of small forwards that clearly could not play on the 3rd line.  In comparison, JT has tremendous strength, is a great skater, plays an aggressive 2-way game and can play all 3 f positions. He was the obvious player to drop to the 3rd line.

 

Miller brings so many +++ to the Canucks that it is hard to understand how anyone could undervalue him so much.

 

[TheCammer]

On 10/7/2019 at 11:52 AM, HomeBrew said:

I look forward to the day that you openly proclaim yourself an idiot.

 

On 10/7/2019 at 11:22 AM, Matt_T83 said:

You mean the JT Miller that mostly got points from assists on other players goals last year? The JT Miller that benefited from a deeply offensively talented Lightning team? 

 

When the other team is desperately trying to shut down your top 2 lines, a 3rd liner like JT Miller can get a lot more open ice and put up some points. He's an average 3rd line player that had an above average year last year. The Lightning were smart and sold him while his value was high.

 

This is the exact same as Anson Carter after he had his career year with the Sedin twins. Overvalued. 

 

If I'm wrong, I will gladly apologize to you and proclaim myself an idiot. But I do not believe that I'm wrong. JT Miller is an overpaid 3rd liner.

You clearly haven't watched him play over the last few years or perhaps in his entire career. Like HomeBrew I'll wait for your proclamation..