Todd Bertuzzi should be in the ring of honor.

[189lb enforcers?]

9 hours ago, 10pavelbure96 said:

With Bert its more the way he played, not so much the stats. He was a massive fan favourite.

 

Massive. I'd say he has as much fan support as Burrows and we roll out the red carpet for him, and he had zero 100 point seasons. 

 

Not a knock on Burr, love the guy, but the RoH is more than stats.

I loved his game too, not so much at the end, but whatever. 

I just wouldn’t be putting his name up in the rafters. 

Nothing more to it. 

 

We have so little to point to that we are going to hold up Bert’s few years as a defining moment in Canucks history? Our franchise must have the lowest criteria in all of professional sports for retiring numbers and the like. I’d like to stop that trend, not support it. 

 

[189lb enforcers?]

11 hours ago, tas said:

no, being the captain and face of the franchise for the better part of a decade as well being the organization's first league mvp gets your number retired. 

Quite the bar. 

I wonder how many other team’s have retired numbers for that little.

It used to mean something to retire a number.  

Edited October 13, 2019 by 189lb enforcers?

[stawns]

5 hours ago, RU SERIOUS said:

........but Lazy Jake is much more of a floater and seagull, which Bert wasn't.

Haha, what?  I loved Bert, but he was a total floater.

[Master 112]

2 hours ago, CanuckGAME said:

Yes Todd did wrong.

 

I'm honestly tired of even hearing about it.  Move on.  Everyone bringing up this one game should move on.

I think it's relevant to the discussion on whether or not Bertuzzi should be honoured.

[EdgarM]

For about half of this franchises history, we have had the luxury of having  to witness 2 great dominating lines. One was the Sedin line and the other was the WCE. If they had a goalie, who knows what they might have accomplished. Its a no brainer, he should be inducted in to the ring of honor for sure.

[DS4quality]

2 hours ago, nuckin_futz said:

These are Toni Tanti's stats for just 5 of his 8 seasons with the Canucks.

 

He didn't have Markus Naslund as his center. Make the case anyone deserves to get in more than him. I will listen.

Tanti was one of my favs, him and sundstrom were bomb! 

[the grinder]

3 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

Been here for a long long time......loved all those guys

All worthy of ROH

But Bert was good enough to be a league allstar 

In 2002 - 2003

Todd beat out Jerome Inginla, Jaromir Jagr, and Martin St. Louis, to name a few

to be placed as the Best RWer in the NHL 1st All Star team

 

Mogilny 1995 - 1996......1X 2nd allstar team

Naslund 2001 - 2004.....3X 1st allstar team

Bertuzzi  2002 -2003......1X 1st allstar team

Luongo 2006 -2007...…..1X 2nd allstar team

H. Sedin 2009 - 2011...…2X 1st allstar team

D. Sedin 2009 - 2011.......2X (1)1st, (1) 2nd allsar team

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NHL_All-Star_Team#2000s

 

That is the sum of our allstar players

Going to an allstar game is absolutely not the same, and it should be put it in absolute perspective. The above group is a very select group...

Not even Bure made it when he was here in Vancouver

 

So when we talk about all the other Canucks......lets be careful, that we are comparing apples to apples here......OK!

 

Allstar game appearances, have been done in a multitude of ways..voted by the fans, voted by the players, and voted by the coaches, and in some cases assigned by the GM.

Some years, there had to be 1 player from each team, so in some cases, players that were not that good actually were sent...…….. 

 

Please note in the years that Naslund won it, Bertuzzi was also very close to being voted on to the second allstar team, from what I can gather. League wide!

 

People that argue, that Snepts and Bertuzzi were in any way equal, are just totally uninformed

 

 

3 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

UMMMMM!

Read the response to Baggins, that is just above this post

 

Man! ………….@#&*(#@^%.............People!

uninformed lol   you said all star   and snepts is an all star    whether you like it or not      I never compared bertuzzi to snepts . one is a forward and one is a defence man  , you said an all star should be considered for roh  ,  I just said snepts is an all star X 2   . smyl and gradin were both  80  points guys  in fact bertuzzi best point year was 97 his second best total 87    smyl best total 88 and another 25 points in the playoffs , who is better ?          man is right   @#$%*&^^     

[189lb enforcers?]

6 hours ago, debluvscanucks said:

I don't care how anyone tries to make Moore's dirty hit ok...it wasn't.

 

The name of the game is going for the puck.  Moore had NO interest in the puck...he lined up Nazzy.  Yes, Nazzy did put himself in a vulnerable position but this game isn't called "head hunting"....it's hockey.  The aim is supposed to be "get the puck and score".   Not knock a guy out because you can.

 

Zero interest in the puck here.  He was a punk trying to make a name for himself - not by showing his skills as a hockey player...not here anyhow.  By running a superstar.  

 

No one will change my mind.  Hell, even the guy in the video I grabbed this from says "he had no interest in the puck".  That's not hockey.

 

We've had this discussion before (Getzlaf/Hamhuis) - you're more easily fooled by headshots that are prettied up to look like they were unintentional.  I don't buy them.

 

"Oh look, Steve, the puck!!!  Get it...you're clearly in a better position to"

 

 

 

Steve, dude...why are you focusing on Nazzy??!  THE PUCK'S RIGHT THERE, LIFT THE STICK, GRAB IT AND GO.


Come on, Nazzy's reaching but you're right there...show everyone the budding superstar like the lawsuit says you are.  GET THE PUCK AND SCORE!

 

TO YOUR RIGHT...PUCK'S THERE...HELLLLOOOOOO?   

 

Oh no, a collision that couldn't be avoided.  Damn.  Nazzy's out, what a shame.



Good hockey play though Steve.  Letting that puck just go like that.





I won't post the pic of Nazzy on another planet...it's painful.  
 

Naslund should listen to Don Cherry. 

Look at him reach for that puck... no $&!# you get your bell ring doing that.

I’d have cranked him too. 

[CanuckGAME]

1 hour ago, 112 said:

I think it's relevant to the discussion on whether or not Bertuzzi should be honoured.

I dont think one incident that happened 15 years ago should be the first thing everyone feels they NEED to bring up whenever Todd's name comes up.

 

No one wants to talk about all the good Bert did in the community,  or how amazing he was to watch during is prime.  

 

Does one moment in your life define you as a human being?  Does one day at your work define you?

 

Time to move the **** on.

[189lb enforcers?]

3 minutes ago, CanuckGAME said:

I dont think one incident that happened 15 years ago should be the first thing everyone feels they NEED to bring up whenever Todd's name comes up.

 

No one wants to talk about all the good Bert did in the community,  or how amazing he was to watch during is prime.  

 

Does one moment in your life define you as a human being?  Does one day at your work define you?

 

Time to move the **** on.

I think his point was, that it is what gets brought up, period.

Not whether it should or not. 

 

Probably like Captain Underpants will learn one day soon.  

[J.I.A.H.N]

30 minutes ago, the grinder said:

 

uninformed lol   you said all star   and snepts is an all star    whether you like it or not      I never compared bertuzzi to snepts . one is a forward and one is a defence man  , you said an all star should be considered for roh  ,  I just said snepts is an all star X 2   . smyl and gradin were both  80  points guys  in fact bertuzzi best point year was 97 his second best total 87    smyl best total 88 and another 25 points in the playoffs , who is better ?          man is right   @#$%*&^^     

LOL

 

Oh, come on...…..Snepts played in an all-star game......just like MVP John Scott

 

Neither were ever all-stars / elite or even real good...…..never....lol

 

Nice try! 

[the grinder]

3 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

LOL

 

Oh, come on...…..Snepts played in an all-star game......just like MVP John Scott

 

Neither were ever all-stars / elite or even real good...…..never....lol

 

Nice try! 

no trying needed   2 time all star  like I said I never compared  bertuzzi to  snepts , not once did I mention talent wise. just saying he belongs in roh  . he was a good player(back in the day) but on the other hand you avoided  the smyl comparison  to bertuzzi          

[Toews]

Voted No. Bertuzzi's name is synonymous with some of the worst players to ever don a NHL jersey. There are genuinely some people out there (those who started watching dead puck era or after) who think of him as the absolute worst. Maybe the end result plays a whole lot more into that sentiment but it is what it is. We have a young, exciting, marketable team, don't see how it isn't a detriment to associate ourselves with a brand as toxic in the hockey community as Todd Bertuzzi. This is how I see it playing out. People can argue that this is unfair and it shouldn't be this way, but those are the consequences. Bertuzzi has to live with them just as Steve Moore does.

[nuckin_futz]

3 hours ago, -AJ- said:

1980s.

 

Their final ranks in NHL scoring points-per-game during their primes:

 

 

I actually love Tanti and think he's criminally underrated, but I would not put him above Bertuzzi. Tanti at his best was a great 1st line player. Bertuzzi at his best was one of the top players in the entire league. The numbers are misleading without context of the difference between the 80s and 2000s.

While I would agree with you on the points you made. Bertuzzi was not at his best often enough. He could absolutely dominate if he wanted to, but had a habit of mailing it in. He was consistently inconsistent.

 

Compare that to Tanti. Is there a single Canuck with a 5 year stretch of goal scoring more consistent than that, who isn't named Bure or maybe Daniel Sedin?

 

3 hours ago, gurn said:

He had a guy named Patrik Sundstrom from 82 to 86 though

If you got to choose between the 2 Naslund or Sundstrom, whom would you pick? It's no contest.

[canuck73_3]

5 hours ago, nuckin_futz said:

These are Toni Tanti's stats for just 5 of his 8 seasons with the Canucks.

 

He didn't have Markus Naslund as his center. Make the case anyone deserves to get in more than him. I will listen.

Morrison was the centre 

[Baggins]

7 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

Been here for a long long time......loved all those guys

All worthy of ROH

But Bert was good enough to be a league allstar 

In 2002 - 2003

Todd beat out Jerome Inginla, Jaromir Jagr, and Martin St. Louis, to name a few

to be placed as the Best RWer in the NHL 1st All Star team

 

Mogilny 1995 - 1996......1X 2nd allstar team

Naslund 2001 - 2004.....3X 1st allstar team

Bertuzzi  2002 -2003......1X 1st allstar team

Luongo 2006 -2007...…..1X 2nd allstar team

H. Sedin 2009 - 2011...…2X 1st allstar team

D. Sedin 2009 - 2011.......2X (1)1st, (1) 2nd allsar team

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NHL_All-Star_Team#2000s

 

That is the sum of our allstar players

Going to an allstar game is absolutely not the same, and it should be put it in absolute perspective. The above group is a very select group...

Not even Bure made it when he was here in Vancouver

 

So when we talk about all the other Canucks......lets be careful, that we are comparing apples to apples here......OK!

 

Allstar game appearances, have been done in a multitude of ways..voted by the fans, voted by the players, and voted by the coaches, and in some cases assigned by the GM.

Some years, there had to be 1 player from each team, so in some cases, players that were not that good actually were sent...…….. 

 

Please note in the years that Naslund won it, Bertuzzi was also very close to being voted on to the second allstar team, from what I can gather. League wide!

 

People that argue, that Snepts and Bertuzzi were in any way equal, are just totally uninformed

 

I never said they were equal. Totally different players. But Snepsts made the all-star team prior to a fan vote (although he was a fan favorite) or a requirement each team be represented. He was simply a big physical defensive d-man who would stand up for himself and teammates. He was a big hard working lunch bucket guy other teams hated to play against. He was our guy on the ice against the best in the league. He made up for a lack of skill with pure effort. Playing over 1000 NHL games over 17 season. Twelve of those seasons here.

 

 

 

 

 

Bertuzzi, or even Bure for that matter, have not been inducted into the BC Sports Hall of fame. But Harold is there. And no, he's not from BC nor did he play here other than for the Canucks. It's how long he played here and what he meant to this team that put him in the RoH.

[IBatch]

13 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Quite the bar. 

I wonder how many other team’s have retired numbers for that little.

It used to mean something to retire a number.  

Chris Phillips...

[J.I.A.H.N]

8 hours ago, Baggins said:

I never said they were equal. Totally different players. But Snepsts made the all-star team prior to a fan vote (although he was a fan favorite) or a requirement each team be represented. He was simply a big physical defensive d-man who would stand up for himself and teammates. He was a big hard working lunch bucket guy other teams hated to play against. He was our guy on the ice against the best in the league. He made up for a lack of skill with pure effort. Playing over 1000 NHL games over 17 season. Twelve of those seasons here.

 

 

 

 

 

Bertuzzi, or even Bure for that matter, have not been inducted into the BC Sports Hall of fame. But Harold is there. And no, he's not from BC nor did he play here other than for the Canucks. It's how long he played here and what he meant to this team that put him in the RoH.

Baggin

 

Lets go back to the original discussion

Snepsts was a average hockey player on a bad team

Bertuzzi was a league leader on a good team

At least we should be able to agree on that

 

Burtuzzi was voted as league elite

and was voted the very best RW one year

He received more votes than a lot of

future HHOF fame players that year

 

That should qualify him, to be in our ROH, easily

 

And no, not at any point was Snepts

one of the best 12 defenseman in the league

Never, and not even close

I have been watching and listening to the Canucks 

since their WHL days on a friggin crystal radio

and know the Canucks pretty darn good

I loved Snepsts's energy and persona

On and off the ice

IF you want to say that he was a all-star

that is ok with me

But there is a far difference between 

being voted best in the league and best on your team

 

I will say this, the era's are different and 

the players are different

and Harry's contribution to the Canucks should

not be dismissed

 

But Bertuzzi, was in a different class of player, talent wise

and in a very small, select group of Canucks

as I pointed out.

Should Bert's jersey be retired? NO!

But his contribution to the WCE was very important

and helped make Naslund a 3X league allstar

Which some people on here do not seem to understand the impact

of being...…….league wide is much greater, than being John Scott

which was closer to what Snepsts was

 

You can disagree with me all you want, but facts are facts

Now as to the BC Hockey hall of fame

It is a political entity, and Bertuzzi's incident

will slow his chance of going in there

And Snepsts was a fan favorite for his

dedication to the game, and his incredible passion and big smile

 

[-DLC-]

17 hours ago, CBH1926 said:

Rule of the code was no turtling, but since Moore fought Cooke, was he obligated  to fight Todd?

Also no sucker punches in the “code” so Bertuzzi broke that code.

Or does the no turtling code negates sucker punch code?

 

Did you watch the game?  I'm curious.  

 

Do you know the code about running up the score then parading around a rookie who just damaged an all star captain to prove his point?  There likely is one.

 

 

[189lb enforcers?]

58 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Chris Phillips...

Yes, here’s another low-achievement achievement/criteria bar... 

 

Although he was a 1st AO pick who played all of his ~1300 NHL games with one franchise and had some memorable playoff moments, mostly good, other than a GWG-own goal in the SCF against Manaheim, I think. 

 

Not here to argue the merit of Phillips’ number being retired, just our team’s penchant for celebrating what I perceive as mediocrity, in some instances. 

 

Bertuzzi was Lindros-like for a very brief few seasons and then became the biggest floater this team ever had. His ability to be offside every shift became infamous, for those who remember the other Bertuzzi, which lasted and lasted until he became Luongo. Best trade ever. (FTR, like all of us, I absolutely loved Bert when he was dominant. Best power hockey we ever saw here, for certain)

 

Smyl, Linden, even Harold gave their 100% their entire careers here.

 

Zero percent of people will say that about Bertuzzi. (I’m not even going to get into his game going into the toilet, or his infamous rages, at the same time as testing came into play for international hockey and how he suddenly dropped 20lbs and became almost lethargic out there, but one can connect the dots)

 

Going back to my first and only point to be made in this thread, I perceive that the Canucks’ ROH, let alone their rafters, have an exceedingly low bar and thus the celebrating of Bertuzzi would continue make my case for me. So for the sake of the spirit of such recognition, and in the name hockey-immortality, I would like to see the Canucks hold the bar a little higher than what his career amounted to here, though I understand it’s not a popular position; who doesn’t want a nostalgic parade like we saw the other night?! I get it, but I don’t like it because it takes away from the spirit of why the NHL started doing this way back in the day.

 

While rival clubs have legends in their rafters, we have Smyl, etc. Don’t mistake this comment for any slant against Smyl, he was pure heart and my kind of hockey player, but he was a career grinder, not much more. Again, quite the bar for retiring a number. 

 

I know we are talking ROH here, but that ring will look like a stretched-out Slinky Toy one day soon if the popularity-voting continues, taking away from it all. All of this post being an opinion and a personal preference of course and just one vote. 

 

Bertuzzi’s bad, the average and then the utter floating outweighs the good, IMO. Not a career worth placing next to Orland’s.