A Generational Talent ( Discussion )

[Snapshot85]

I would like to start off with a disclaimer: I hate Gretzky I think Lemiuex was much better.ok now with my personal beliefs out of the way let's talk about what it is to be a generational talent.

 

I have been hearing "Generational Talent" to describe picks.... it's like the new buzz word... last guy it floated around was Rasmus Dahlin, before that Connor McDavid.

 

It got me thinking about defining it.... it seems like a very interesting way to describe the rarity of the caliber of player.

 

To me a generation is about 20-30 years... that's how long it will take for your newborn son to have kids of his own.

 

So surely in the course of the nhl there can be very few..

 

We have heard the names, Dahlin, Mcdavid, Crosby, Hasak, Jagar, Lemieux....

 

But are these players truly generational....?

I think there all really good players... exceptional.... top 0.1% ... but generational I dont think so.

 

Only 2 I believe have been generational

Bobby Orr and Wayne Gretzky.... 

I would consider them generational...because of thier impact on the game. They literally changed how the game was played... and are about 20-30 years apart. Bobby Orr redefined what a defenseman was.... you could be a offensive weapon and play defense... it was a giant change in the way the game was thought... Lindstrom, Dahlin, Hughes all of those potent offensive weapons have bobby to thank.

 

Then there's Wayne... stats dont lie... he has almost every Important record. He literally changed the game...he was so dominant the nhl had to create new rules just to slow him down.. lol.. now that's a talent. I have yet to see crosby or Mcdavid do that.

 

In Short

.. I think were still waiting for that next generational talent that will turn the league upside down and change it.

 

What do you think?

Cheers

 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

Orr and Gretzky weren’t generational talents. They were a once in a century talent. Nobody today or in our lifetimes will come along like them. Lemieux was very close to both of them.  Howe as well. Those 4 in my opinion are the greatest players ever. 
 

In terms of generational talents I think you can look at guys like Jagr, Lidstrom, Crosby and McDavid. They redefined the game in their era.  Bure without the knee injury could be put in that class as well. Nobody could do what Bure did. 
 

As for other players you can put them in the class of a franchise player. 

Edited October 13, 2019 by Elias Pettersson

[Lancaster]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Orr and Gretzky weren’t generational talents. They were a once in a century talent. Nobody today or in our lifetimes will come along like them. Lemieux was very close to both of them.  Howe as well. Those 4 in my opinion are the greatest players ever. 
 

In terms of generational talents I think you can look at guys like Jagr, Lidstrom, Crosby and McDavid. They redefined the game in their era.  Bure without the knee injury could be put in that class as well. Nobody could do what Bure did. 
 

As for other players you can put them in the class of a franchise player. 

Sergei says hi.

 

He won the Hart, Lester B., and the Selke in the same season.  Was also runner-up in the Art Ross (only 10 points behind Gretzky) and also runner-up in the future Rocket Richard trophy (it didn't exist during that time) with only 4 goals less than Pavel that same year.  

[-DLC-]

I think you have to take a lot into consideration as the game changes.

 

Guys back then were well protected....had enforcers to allow them to do what they did.  The Semenkos and Ginos.  As well, the goaltenders were very "small" in comparison to today's walls of pads that let little light in.

 

I don't think we can compare based on things having evolved so much.  Who knows what Petey could do if he had a legit bodyguard who the refs let do the job?  

 

I think these guys are game changers for sure...the Crosby's, the OV's, the McDavid's.   It's hard to determine how good they could be if they could utilize their talent using the standards of yesterday's game.

 

I think they're all great.

[The Lock]

Based on the definition you have provided in terms of "generational", it seems more about which players are remembered rather than which players scored more, had more space, etc. This would also make sense in terms of the fact that the game is different now than it was back then as what's already been mentioned by a couple of people.

 

Based on that, I have a hard time seeing Crosby and Ovechkin not being remembered by the next generation; therefore, I'm pretty sure they can be considered generational talents. The fact that we are comparing the careers of Crosby and Ovechkin alone I think puts them in that category.

 

Unfortunately, this also puts players like Dionne away from the limelight since I almost never hear his name, which is a shame.

[Nuxfanabroad]

The bar is higher now. Lower-end, depth players are light yrs ahead of what they used to be. Virtually everyone skates well. .only some guys don't have the highest gear.

 

If you air-dropped 1982 Gretzky into today's game, his pt totals would prob be comparable to McDavid. Orr & Lemieux would probably translate better to diff eras.

 

Gretz had great gifts..but he was also right team, right time(scoring era, poor 'tending), in a defensively BRUTAL(literal sense) division

[Strombone]

If generational is directly correlated with the impact they have on the game. Then the Bure, Sedins and Luongo are generational.

 

Bure: Literally changed the speed of the game. He was so fast that the game had tried to catch up to him. But it never did, his knees just gave out on him. 

 

Sedins: They basically invented the newer more creative cycle game in which all other teams in the league started to mimic. Similar to how Steve Nash reinvented the pick and roll for the NBA. 

 

Luongo: They changed the size of goalie equipment right when Lu was on top of the league. They also tried to change the size of the net because of him. But Luongo said he would retire if they did, so they didn't.

[6string]

25 minutes ago, Strombone said:

If generational is directly correlated with the impact they have on the game. Then the Bure, Sedins and Luongo are generational.

 

Bure: Literally changed the speed of the game. He was so fast that the game had tried to catch up to him. But it never did, his knees just gave out on him. 

 

Sedins: They basically invented the newer more creative cycle game in which all other teams in the league started to mimic. Similar to how Steve Nash reinvented the pick and roll for the NBA. 

 

Luongo: They changed the size of goalie equipment right when Lu was on top of the league. They also tried to change the size of the net because of him. But Luongo said he would retire if they did, so they didn't.

Is this you Cheech?

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 hour ago, debluvscanucks said:

I think you have to take a lot into consideration as the game changes.

 

Guys back then were well protected....had enforcers to allow them to do what they did.  The Semenkos and Ginos.  As well, the goaltenders were very "small" in comparison to today's walls of pads that let little light in.

In Howe's time (when he was in his prime), the best players were often the enforcers for example.  Strange times indeed.

[NUCKER67]

Is a generational player a player who is expected to be one of the best players during their generation? Or is it a player who proves they are the best during their generation? 

 

Just my opinion:

 

One of a very select few who come along once in a generation, who have a huge impact (legendary status) on the game. The player has to win the Hart trophy and lead their respective team(s) to at least one Cup Championship:

 

YES

Howe, Beliveau, Orr, Richard, Plante, Gretzky, Esposito, Lemieux, Crosby, Ovechkin, the Hulls, Lafleur, etc.

 

NO (or not yet anyway)

McDavid, Matthews, Marner, Pettersson, Karlsson, the Hughes bros, etc.

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

In Howe's time (when he was in his prime), the best players were often the enforcers for example.  Strange times indeed.

True.  All guys had to play and be tough.  Was it Mikita who went from most PIMs to the Lady Bing?  All those guys were tough as nails.  

[NewbieCanuckFan]

4 minutes ago, Alflives said:

True.  All guys had to play and be tough.  Was it Mikita who went from most PIMs to the Lady Bing?  All those guys were tough as nails.  

Rocket Richard beating up Sean Avery lol:

 

 

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Rocket Richard beating up Sean Avery lol:

 

 

Who’s the guy playing Richard?  He looks the part, and appears to be able to actually play.  

[NewbieCanuckFan]

Just now, Alflives said:

Who’s the guy playing Richard?  He looks the part, and appears to be able to actually play.  

Roy Dupuis.  

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Dupuis

[BrockBoester]

3 hours ago, Snapshot85 said:

I would like to start off with a disclaimer: I hate Gretzky

Stopped reading here, sorry lol

[coastal.view]

1 hour ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

The bar is higher now. Lower-end, depth players are light yrs ahead of what they used to be. Virtually everyone skates well. .only some guys don't have the highest gear.

 

If you air-dropped 1982 Gretzky into today's game, his pt totals would prob be comparable to McDavid. Orr & Lemieux would probably translate better to diff eras.

 

Gretz had great gifts..but he was also right team, right time(scoring era, poor 'tending), in a defensively BRUTAL(literal sense) division

i don't agree

gretz revolutionized the game

his vision was remarkable

and subsequent players modeled their games after him

he was finesse in an era of brawn

that his style of play was more like the current state of the game

his approach is more common now

and so his impact may seem less remarkable now then it actually was

he really helped develop the modern game

[48MPHSlapShot]

The term is thrown around a ton, but imo a "generational player" is just that. The type of player that only typically comes around once a generation. McDavid is that. Crosby was that. Can't think of any others in recent times that I would call "generational".

[Elias Pettersson]

4 hours ago, Lancaster said:

Sergei says hi.

 

He won the Hart, Lester B., and the Selke in the same season.  Was also runner-up in the Art Ross (only 10 points behind Gretzky) and also runner-up in the future Rocket Richard trophy (it didn't exist during that time) with only 4 goals less than Pavel that same year.  

Fedorov for all his talent couldn't do what Bure did.  Fedorov was healthy most of his career.  Bure had 2 major knee surgeries and had to retire at 32.  Fedorov also played on a stacked Detroit team with several hall of famers.  Bure played with Linden and Greg Adams and then in Florida with a no name team.  Big difference. 

 

Like I said Bure without the knee injuries would have been in the same class as Jagr...

[logic]

A generation is 10-15 years imo 

2006-2017 the Crosby/OV post lockout generation

2017-??? McDavid generation,

[Dazzle]

31 minutes ago, logic said:

A generation is 10-15 years imo 

2006-2017 the Crosby/OV post lockout generation

2017-??? McDavid generation,

IMHO, I think Rantanen should be noted as a possible candidate too.