Baertschi and Goldobin - The pros and cons of calling them up

[alt kilgore]

If history repeats, injuries will "solve" these issues.  Just have to wait.   No rush to call up Baer. And Goldie could use a full season in Utica. At least until we might need him in the playoffs/injuries. I'd like to see Gaudette play more hopefully, because he is already up here. Louie is an enigma. I don't want him to drag the Canucks and his line down to his mediocre standards, and I don't want him anywhere near Utica to float around there taking ice time from prospects. I'm hoping he has a Naslund like epiphany...that he's earned enough millions and is willing to walk away from the rest of his contract for his own sanity and well being of the team. But I'm not holding my breath.

[runtzguy]

Josh Leivo a misfit? Are you blind? 

[Winter Soldier]

Con: Goldy isn't actually that good at the NHL level.

[captainhorvat]

Just leave them in Utica...end of discussion.

[captainhorvat]

42 minutes ago, runtzguy said:

Josh Leivo a misfit? Are you blind? 

[EdgarM]

11 hours ago, Hindustan Smyl said:

Baertschi and Goldobin - The pros and cons of calling them up
 

Baertschi and Goldie have been tearing up the A, while Eriksson continues to take naps in the press box along with Josh Leivo and Michael Ferland looking like misfits.   
 

“So why not bring up Baertschi and Goldie?” Is the obvious answer.    Not only are Baertschi and Goldie tearing up the A, but they seem to have found some chemistry playing with one another.   Correct me if I’m mistaken, but this is the first time that Baertschi and Goldie have been playing together right? (Goldie is being deployed as a RW’er down in Utica).

 

Like I said - the obvious advantage in bringing up one or both Baertschi or Goldobin is that perhaps they could help our inconsistent scoring problem.    Perhaps the new found chemistry between Baertschi and Goldobin is a thing?
 

On the flip side of this however, there is an obvious difference between lighting it up in the AHL and being good at the NHL level.    History doesn’t seem to support the notion that Baertschi and Goldobin will come up here and make a huge difference.

 

The other thing to consider is this:  For years now, this management group has talked about building a winning environment down in Utica since it would be a good environment for the kids to be in.   Now that we finally seem to be getting that, we want to break it apart?    
 

In two games time, there is a good chance that Adam Gaudette will be sent down to join Baertschi and Goldobin.........which would likely make Utica even more dominant.   Gaudette would get tons of ice-time and offensive opportunities.

 

With Goldobin and Baertschi lighting it up in Utica, their trade values will likely continue to increase as well.......meaning that perhaps they could turn into movable assets at some point.

 

The other thing to consider is this:

 

If you bring up Baertschi and say......waive Eriksson, do you really want a passive and sulking Eriksson around the kids in Utica?   affecting the positive atmosphere?   There’s also a chance that if Eriksson got sent down, he’d likely request to play for the Texas Stars just as Sam Gagner requested you play for the Toronto Marlies.

 

The Hindustan’s verdict:   As tempting as it might be to bring up Baertschi and Goldobin, I’d keep them down in Utica unless Eriksson, Motte, and the returning Roussel all get injured.    I would also send Adam Gaudette down to Utica in two games’ time.     I think there’s something to be said about building up a powerhouse down in Utica and letting our prospects be a part of that.   Furthermore, if Baertschi and Goldobin continue to light it up, the chances of another NHL club wanting to trade for them becomes likelier.

 

4 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

Why? Cause they're tearing up the A, as you say?

 

The $6 Million Dollar Man is in the pressbox, so if they bring up Baertschi or Goldobin, they too will probably be on the press box.Tne Canucks have been playing well with the gritty guys (Schaller, Motte, etc). No need to try and fix what isn't broken. If scoring dries up or big injuries happen, then I could see them being recalled. Nice to have depth.

 

4 hours ago, Sbriggs said:

If you bring up Sven and waive LE he probably doesn't report and is forced to either retire or void his contract so he can sign somewhere else for peanuts which is what he is worth. Thats the only way I bring up either Sven or Goldy but I prefer Sven, Goldy is way too soft after seeing a team finally with some grit and phsycality.

 

3 hours ago, CanucksJay said:

I like Goldy and Sven but i also love that our team doesnt get pushed around and we play a heavy game. 

I have a feeling we will have way less injuries this year

 

3 minutes ago, Winter Soldier said:

Con: Goldy isn't actually that good at the NHL level.

We all know what Baert and Goldy bring to the table its what they probably will never bring is the question, Size, toughness and physicality. We lacked this last year and this year we don't. The only guys that they may replace in the current line up is Boes or Petey and we all know that ain't happening. They are the only two who have trouble along the boards/forechecking but they make up for it in offense.  

This year the team is built to withstand a lot more of what teams were able to beat us with in past years, skill , speed or size. We seem to have a good BALANCE of all of them right now and adding these two would offset that balance.

Like NUCKER SAID, we have no need to make changes right now and no need to bring up our AHLers for no reason. They are the REPLACEMENTS of our current line up.

[Alflives]

44 minutes ago, runtzguy said:

Josh Leivo a misfit? Are you blind? 

I don't think Leivo is miscast for us either.  He moves up and down the line-up, and provides energy to whatever line he's on.  He's a good fit I think, in the role he's been given.  He's just not an every game top six guy.  

Edited October 22, 2019 by Alflives

[Boudrias]

What realistic conclusions can be made from 8 games played? Even less in Utica? There are good reasons why Baer and Goldy were waived and good reasons why no other NHL clubs picked them up. Drop this BS and take up knitting. It is likely more productive. Come back after 20 games and we can talk about it.  

[CanucksJay]

3 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

What realistic conclusions can be made from 8 games played? Even less in Utica? There are good reasons why Baer and Goldy were waived and good reasons why no other NHL clubs picked them up. Drop this BS and take up knitting. It is likely more productive. Come back after 20 games and we can talk about it.  

Lol wow... That was harsh... Truth hurts eh? 

[Boudrias]

1 minute ago, CanucksJay said:

Lol wow... That was harsh... Truth hurts eh? 

Got a little carried away. Should have said 'have another wobbly pop'! 

[the grinder]

15 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

Got a little carried away. Should have said 'have another wobbly pop'! 

I don't think you did, you hit the nail on the head ,goldy and baer  are down there for a reason  and 30 teams passed on them  enuff said lol

[gameburn]

12 hours ago, Smashian Kassian said:

I disagree with "History doesn’t seem to support the notion that Baertschi...........will come up here and make a huge difference."

 

Sven's had 22 goal, 43 point point pace the last 3 season's combined. As a top 6 winger on one of the worst teams in hockey.

 

That's proven production in my mind as a secondary scorer. I had him starting the year here & still think he can help our team. 

 

I agree.  And I think mgt is beginning to wonder about the scoring in the bottom 9 forwards too (well, and the top 3 too on some nights lol.) 

We've had a few occasions on this road trip where another scorer would really have helped.  And Baertschi looks more flexible/useful than Goldobin.

Also think that it's time for Gaudette to get some ice time here in Vancouver.  Give him 12 games and really look at whether he can do it.  If not, send down for seasoning.  

Clearly, Eriksson can be sent down.  Should be sent down.  No way he fits on this team where forechecking and a new resiliency is king.  And where overtime/shootouts seem to matter.  The PK does not need him either, which kind of makes him redundant.  And this is without Roussel even being in the lineup. 

 

Leivo is inconsistent and isn't the best finisher, a couple of his opportunities a few games back would have been buried by Baertschi.  

[gameburn]

50 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I don't think Leivo is miscast for us either.  He moves up and down the line-up, and provides energy to whatever line he's on.  He's a good fit I think, in the role he's been given.  He's just not an every game top six guy.  

We talking another Granlund here?  I think he is expendable.  He is way too inconsistent.  Did you see the blown chances he had this road trip?  Seems to lack hands/finish.  Maybe a consistent set of line mates would help, maybe?  So far though... not sure he is as useful as Baertschi let alone Roussel.  Motte, Beagle and Schaller are showing signs of being a pretty good 4th line.  So, not sure where either Eriksson or Leivo fit in in the top-9.  Gaudette looks like a better guy to play regularly than Leivo. 

[deus.ex.makina]

30 minutes ago, the grinder said:

I don't think you did, you hit the nail on the head ,goldy and baer  are down there for a reason  and 30 teams passed on them  enuff said lol

30 others teams passed on them for the same reason they were sent down to Utica. No way they would go again through the waivers with this kind of AHL production. And to be honest i don’t even think they would have been sent down if the canucks organisation knew they were at this level. Leivo and Schaller/Motte would have been way better candidates to the demotion. 

[iceman64]

15 hours ago, Hindustan Smyl said:

Baertschi and Goldobin - The pros and cons of calling them up
 

Baertschi and Goldie have been tearing up the A, while Eriksson continues to take naps in the press box along with Josh Leivo and Michael Ferland looking like misfits.   
 

“So why not bring up Baertschi and Goldie?” Is the obvious answer.    Not only are Baertschi and Goldie tearing up the A, but they seem to have found some chemistry playing with one another.   Correct me if I’m mistaken, but this is the first time that Baertschi and Goldie have been playing together right? (Goldie is being deployed as a RW’er down in Utica).

 

Like I said - the obvious advantage in bringing up one or both Baertschi or Goldobin is that perhaps they could help our inconsistent scoring problem.    Perhaps the new found chemistry between Baertschi and Goldobin is a thing?
 

On the flip side of this however, there is an obvious difference between lighting it up in the AHL and being good at the NHL level.    History doesn’t seem to support the notion that Baertschi and Goldobin will come up here and make a huge difference.

 

The other thing to consider is this:  For years now, this management group has talked about building a winning environment down in Utica since it would be a good environment for the kids to be in.   Now that we finally seem to be getting that, we want to break it apart?    
 

In two games time, there is a good chance that Adam Gaudette will be sent down to join Baertschi and Goldobin.........which would likely make Utica even more dominant.   Gaudette would get tons of ice-time and offensive opportunities.

 

With Goldobin and Baertschi lighting it up in Utica, their trade values will likely continue to increase as well.......meaning that perhaps they could turn into movable assets at some point.

 

The other thing to consider is this:

 

If you bring up Baertschi and say......waive Eriksson, do you really want a passive and sulking Eriksson around the kids in Utica?   affecting the positive atmosphere?   There’s also a chance that if Eriksson got sent down, he’d likely request to play for the Texas Stars just as Sam Gagner requested you play for the Toronto Marlies.

 

The Hindustan’s verdict:   As tempting as it might be to bring up Baertschi and Goldobin, I’d keep them down in Utica unless Eriksson, Motte, and the returning Roussel all get injured.    I would also send Adam Gaudette down to Utica in two games’ time.     I think there’s something to be said about building up a powerhouse down in Utica and letting our prospects be a part of that.   Furthermore, if Baertschi and Goldobin continue to light it up, the chances of another NHL club wanting to trade for them becomes likelier.

Rather see Macewen/Gaudetteup here than either of those 2.. Goldy sucks defensively and Baer, it wouldn't take much a hit to put him out of action, nice thoughts but unrealistic..

Edited October 22, 2019 by iceman64

[Alflives]

56 minutes ago, gameburn said:

We talking another Granlund here?  I think he is expendable.  He is way too inconsistent.  Did you see the blown chances he had this road trip?  Seems to lack hands/finish.  Maybe a consistent set of line mates would help, maybe?  So far though... not sure he is as useful as Baertschi let alone Roussel.  Motte, Beagle and Schaller are showing signs of being a pretty good 4th line.  So, not sure where either Eriksson or Leivo fit in in the top-9.  Gaudette looks like a better guy to play regularly than Leivo. 

Agreed.  Leivo wouldn't be missed.  That's not saying he's not currently filling a role though.  He is just a replacement level guy.  Hockey Gaud could fill that role, and we wouldn't miss a beat.  IMO. 

[Devron]

Great thread.

 

Baer shouldn’t be in the AHL. He’s a 20 goal scorer at the highest level. I understand waiving him and sending him down to certain degree. The concussion left him with too many questions to start the season. But Loui has no business being on the roster imo and I think Leivo is more suited for the press box with a healthy line-up because he doesn’t really excel at anything but he’s a great player to put in your line-up if there’s and injury whether it’s the first line or 4th. He has that versatility

 

The second unit PP would have a better chance of scoring with Baer on it.

 

In a way I like the decision to send him down at the start of the season. I think time in Utica is only good for him with the way his season went last year and clearly he’s playing well. I hope he ends up back on the roster at some point and Loui just quits. It’s over Loui its Over .

[GhostsOf1994]

13 hours ago, mll said:

I would hope that they find a taker for Baertschi earlier than later.  He went through such an ordeal last season and it just feels wrong to have his career derailed by a blindsided hit.  He shouldn't be in the AHL.

It's Benning and Johnson that decided to move Gagner to Toronto - he didn't ask for it.  Johnson said they felt he would be taking ice time away from the kids they want to develop.  Baertschi and Goldobin are also taking ice time away from prospects.  They forced Jasek and Gadjovich off the PP for example.  

 

HUH?

 

Gagner was moved because of effort, attitude and comments made.

 

Trade was to TORONTO( Which ahl team?)

 

where gagner lives.

 

Oh and his bestfriend is TAVARES!?

[VegasCanuck]

There are no Pro's until we have injuries to justify it.

[IBatch]

8 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

Why? Cause they're tearing up the A, as you say?

 

The $6 Million Dollar Man is in the pressbox, so if they bring up Baertschi or Goldobin, they too will probably be on the press box.Tne Canucks have been playing well with the gritty guys (Schaller, Motte, etc). No need to try and fix what isn't broken. If scoring dries up or big injuries happen, then I could see them being recalled. Nice to have depth.

Yep.  And the definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.  Well at least for now it looks like we’ve broken the cycle.   Bear was a hard pill to swallow BUT if he’s that good why didn’t anyone else pick him and his “good cap hit up”?   Concussions ... well.   Agreed these guys will both likely get another chance - hopefully when they do they make the best of it.