Boudrias Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 33 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: How many trade deadline deals for 1st rounders have we seen over the years for rentals that didn't even pan out? Miller-Petey-Brock is dominant on possession and producing like a legit 1st line. And we've got Miller for a great term and contract. I guess people can pine over the 1st, we'll see who that is and what they become in 3 or 4 years which when this trade can be fully assessed, but for now its paying off nicely. How do you ever measure such deals? Miller’s impact on a young roster player won’t show in his stats but that young player could become a CUP quality contributor. Bringing him onto this roster now could/should be huge. Very excited for him. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebreh Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 hfboards canucks be like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 1 hour ago, theo5789 said: To be fair, they wanted to be getting high picks or whatever for taking on those said cap dumps rather than giving away 1sts to do so. The problem is they equated a Miller "cap dump" equivalent to say a Lucic cap dump. And that's the irony and conundrum. They wanted to take on cap dumps and GAIN picks, and presumably tank the team in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 1 minute ago, Gaudette Celly said: And that's the irony and conundrum. They wanted to take on cap dumps and GAIN picks, and presumably tank the team in the process. Well look at the Marleau situation. I think they wanted that type of cap dump to "weaponize" the cap space. Vegas did it to a tee (until they threw away all their picks for Tatar). I didn't mind the idea of it, but I didn't know what our cap structure was going to be (or knew we would target Myers and Ferland, etc). Benning clearly did and knew that we didn't have as much cap space as it seemed despite sitting on like 20+ million in cap space at that time. That route would certainly have tanked us for much longer though like Ottawa (possibly the same people also laugh at them for how they're running their team though). Like I said, the problem is they viewed Miller as a "cap dump" strictly and forgot that we are also getting a player (the same people calling him a 3rd/4th line plug that is declining based on a one year dip in points). At the end of the day, "weaponizing" cap space isn't the problem, just people not understanding what we were getting with Miller (although there were many who were very aware). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 2 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said: How many trade deadline deals for 1st rounders have we seen over the years for rentals that didn't even pan out? Miller-Petey-Brock is dominant on possession and producing like a legit 1st line. And we've got Miller for a great term and contract. I guess people can pine over the 1st, we'll see who that is and what they become in 3 or 4 years which when this trade can be fully assessed, but for now its paying off nicely. Tatar for two more years for a first second and third....only to be sat the entire playoffs practically Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DADDYROCK Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Over the years the league has had 1st. round picks that have not done ANYTHING, however J.T. MILLER is the real deal NHL caliber player that unforunately didn't play with the SEDINS. Our team is so much better because of these recent moves, and will be able to give young player like Petey and Brock (these boys are very young remember),much more support. I am a BIG FAN of players like J.T. MILLER who can play anyway you want,fast and skilled or rough and tough,it is players like this who can lead us to our first STANLEY CUP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeneedLumme Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 2 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said: When the trade was made nobody here knew that JB was going to be out buying his way out of trouble to supplement this trade with. So any early bitching about the trade didn’t have the benefit of knowing the team was transitioning from the R-thingy to win within a weeks time. Miller plays a game I enjoy, but I wouldn’t have guessed, no matter how much I wanted it to happen, that the Canucks abandon their “rebuild” strategy and go after all sorts of quality UFAs on July 1. Lots of players get off to a great start every year. Usually around 25 players rock a PPG average through the first 20-30 games until the grind catches up. At game 82, there’s typically, what, 5-10 PPG players left? Lets see where Miller ends up. Either way, I’m glad JB traded for character and damn spine for the Canucks. They sure are more fun to watch of late. "Buying his way out of trouble?" Some would call it using his resources to improve the team. Novel idea, eh? "Abandon their rebuild strategy?" Some would say completing their rebuild, filling in the remaining holes in the lineup. "5-10 PPG players left" in the NHL? There were 32 NHL players last year who played over 20 games and averaged over a PPG for the whole season. But that is still more accurate than most of your posts. "...great start...Let's see where Miller ends up?" Implying that his production is just a lucky streak. Ignoring the fact that his production was first line level for two consecutive years, dropping to high second line level last year when he was on a deep team and getting 3rd/4th line ice time. You sure like to fabricate nonsense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 3 hours ago, Boudrias said: How do you ever measure such deals? Miller’s impact on a young roster player won’t show in his stats but that young player could become a CUP quality contributor. Bringing him onto this roster now could/should be huge. Very excited for him. just generally I guess. If that pick turns to be a Boeser quality player, then maybe you can look at it and say were there other options. If it turns out to be a Cam Barker you feel happy. I was more thinking about how many teams burn a 1st of a pure rental, we've got this guy for 4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hectic Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 8 hours ago, Winter Soldier said: So much whinging was done about the pick when some of the most optimistic outcomes for a mid-range first are JT Miller. That is the argument I use with everyone who questions that trade. Honestly, the player that we would pick with that 1st rounder would likely be JT Miller calibur.. we just get that player 9 years later which is exactly what we need right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kloubek Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Miller was one of the Eastern players I had noticed and hoped he would eventually end up on our team. He plays a gritty game and gives a strong net presence we have lacked. So when I hear we had acquired him, I was absolutely stoked and figured he would be a great fit. When I heard what we gave up, I initially cringed. But the more I thought about it, the more I figured it wouldn't likely end up a lotto pick- and really, even if you hit on the draft you are still generally waiting one.. two.. three.. maybe four years for that player to be a real contributor. So I ended up pretty happy with the trade once the dust settled. But so far, he has exceeded even my expectations, and has looked good on the first line where I was afraid he might be outskilled. Glad to be wrong. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 5 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said: When the trade was made nobody here knew that JB was going to be out buying his way out of trouble to supplement this trade with. So any early bitching about the trade didn’t have the benefit of knowing the team was transitioning from the R-thingy to win within a weeks time. Miller plays a game I enjoy, but I wouldn’t have guessed, no matter how much I wanted it to happen, that the Canucks abandon their “rebuild” strategy and go after all sorts of quality UFAs on July 1. Lots of players get off to a great start every year. Usually around 25 players rock a PPG average through the first 20-30 games until the grind catches up. At game 82, there’s typically, what, 5-10 PPG players left? Lets see where Miller ends up. Either way, I’m glad JB traded for character and damn spine for the Canucks. They sure are more fun to watch of late. Glad he signed some spine too. It was much needed. Hope we stay healthy and keep up the good play during this stretch. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 6 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said: When the trade was made nobody here knew that JB was going to be out buying his way out of trouble to supplement this trade with. So any early bitching about the trade didn’t have the benefit of knowing the team was transitioning from the R-thingy to win within a weeks time. Miller plays a game I enjoy, but I wouldn’t have guessed, no matter how much I wanted it to happen, that the Canucks abandon their “rebuild” strategy and go after all sorts of quality UFAs on July 1. Lots of players get off to a great start every year. Usually around 25 players rock a PPG average through the first 20-30 games until the grind catches up. At game 82, there’s typically, what, 5-10 PPG players left? Lets see where Miller ends up. Either way, I’m glad JB traded for character and damn spine for the Canucks. They sure are more fun to watch of late. The rebuild was over when we drafted Podkolzin and Hoglander. Absolute steals at where they were selected. Once that was done the trade for Miller was made to complete the team. In 2 years our team will be complete and Miller will still be only 28, so he can play several more years with our young guys and win multiple Cups. When all our young guys are in the lineup Benning will show the world what his master plan was. To create a powerhouse that can win multiple Cups. Just wait until all of our draft picks are in the lineup. This team will be better than the 2010 team. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post HerrDrFunk Posted October 25, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 25, 2019 7 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said: When the trade was made nobody here knew that JB was going to be out buying his way out of trouble to supplement this trade with. So any early bitching about the trade didn’t have the benefit of knowing the team was transitioning from the R-thingy to win within a weeks time. Miller plays a game I enjoy, but I wouldn’t have guessed, no matter how much I wanted it to happen, that the Canucks abandon their “rebuild” strategy and go after all sorts of quality UFAs on July 1. Lots of players get off to a great start every year. Usually around 25 players rock a PPG average through the first 20-30 games until the grind catches up. At game 82, there’s typically, what, 5-10 PPG players left? Lets see where Miller ends up. Either way, I’m glad JB traded for character and damn spine for the Canucks. They sure are more fun to watch of late. I highly doubt Miller can keep up us current scoring pace; but even if he ends up topping out around his usual 50+ points, we still got the JT Miller that Benning traded for. But hey, if Miller wants to surprise me and set a career high this year, you won't hear me complaining at all. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 8 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said: When the trade was made nobody here knew that JB was going to be out buying his way out of trouble to supplement this trade with. So any early bitching about the trade didn’t have the benefit of knowing the team was transitioning from the R-thingy to win within a weeks time. Miller plays a game I enjoy, but I wouldn’t have guessed, no matter how much I wanted it to happen, that the Canucks abandon their “rebuild” strategy and go after all sorts of quality UFAs on July 1. Lots of players get off to a great start every year. Usually around 25 players rock a PPG average through the first 20-30 games until the grind catches up. At game 82, there’s typically, what, 5-10 PPG players left? Lets see where Miller ends up. Either way, I’m glad JB traded for character and damn spine for the Canucks. They sure are more fun to watch of late. There was already rumblings that we were targeting Myers I believe, which was also met with a lot of disdain on how he would be an overpriced bottom pairing dman. Benn was a great addition, but if it wasn't him, we would've found another bottom pairing dman, perhaps we could've locked back Hutton if we didn't fill this spot yet. Ferland was a shock and unexpected. At the end of the day, he basically took out Baertschi's spot. The trade alone was a boost to our top 6 for a relatively young player signed for 4 more years on a good contract regardless of everything else that happened. The naysayers were already out with their pitchforks ready to pounce on any decision Benning made anyway. So it became a bitchfest about the value of that 1st (and he we were going to Ottawa ourselves ) and about how he was a bottom 6 guy and his production dropped and he was supposedly a cap dump. We weren't going to tank forever. We have made small strides to improving the team every year. Last year I predicted we would fight for a wildcard spot which we did until about 5-8 games left in the season. I predicted we would be fighting for a wildcard spot this year before the offseason moves and if we didn't make it this year, then the next for sure. We simply expedited the process, but there was no reason to think we would continue to be a bottom "rebuild" team for the foreseeable future. So we didn't "abandon" the rebuild, we were always progressing in this direction. Miller could very well cool off, but we are getting the early wins now that hopefully will be key if/when we are making a late playoff push. Our team isn't even firing on all cylinders right now, so if Miller stays hot until then, then we can overcome whatever shortcomings from Miller as other players could get hot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpluto96 Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Many whiners of this trade forgot about the 4 year remaining on a very good contract, which is huge moving forward. If you want to sign a UFA of his caliber, forget about it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 3 hours ago, blackpluto96 said: Many whiners of this trade forgot about the 4 year remaining on a very good contract, which is huge moving forward. If you want to sign a UFA of his caliber, forget about it. Check Hayes and get back to us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Fivehole0 Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 7 hours ago, IBatch said: Check Hayes and get back to us. Hayes is making like 7M isnt he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 16 hours ago, HerrDrFunk said: I highly doubt Miller can keep up us current scoring pace; but even if he ends up topping out around his usual 50+ points, we still got the JT Miller that Benning traded for. But hey, if Miller wants to surprise me and set a career high this year, you won't hear me complaining at all. Some reputable fantasy sources had him at around 65 points for the year before anything even started. Right now it looks like they did their homework and personally I think that’s about where he will end up. He’s never really had a chance like this before and is in his prime. Playing 14 minutes a game he managed 48 points last year (sure he was on the PP too) ... Hope it shuts up the few that say we just signed another Gagne type (because at one point he scored 8 points in one game and ended up getting around 50) ...two completely different players. Said at the time we just added another Horvat - because that’s how he plays - maybe doesn’t have as good a shot but he’s a great passer and a puck hound just like Horvat... I don’t think he’s going to stay off the he scoresheet for long stretches, and even more importantly will be involved every game. Can’t really even pin down a previous player that he’s like (other then Horvat). When have we ever had a guy that can play all positions and move up and down the top two lines like he can? The only other guys I can think of are Linden and hate to say it. So I won’t. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGokou Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 I think the original problem with this trade, in which I will openly admit I was wrong, was that we all didn't know how we would be able to make it into the playoffs. There was too much uncertainty with our lineup and I truthfully didn't think we had a chance of making into the playoffs for the next 2 years, effectively giving the lightning a lottery pick. In that sense I think a lot of us were justified in thinking it was a bad trade at the time but luckily Benning had a plan and he considerably beefed up our lineup in the days following free agency and I could finally see a path where there initially was none to make it to the playoffs. I'm glad the trade has worked out even better than our wildest imaginations so far and I hope he can continue it but I'd still be happy if he reverted back to his mean production over the last couple of years. Credit where credit is due, Benning hasn't always made the best decisions but his track record is getting better with every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpluto96 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 (edited) On 10/25/2019 at 8:10 PM, IBatch said: Check Hayes and get back to us. Miller: $5.25M cap until 2023 season when he will be 30, no clauses. Hayes: $7.14M cap until 2026 season when he will be 34, with NMC from now to 2022 and modified NTC for the remainder. This season: Miller: 10GP, 4G 7A 11Pts, +5, 19:00 TOI, 62.3% CF% with 37.5% Ozone starts, 62 FO taken with 61.3% winning %, 5 blocks, 14 hits Hayes: 9GP, 4G 2A 6Pts, +0, 18:29 TOD, 52.9% CF% with 51.3% Ozone starts, 88 FO taken, 44.3% winning %, 0 blocks, 9 hits Flyers did get him for cheap though but pays through cap and term, which is the exact point I was trying to make. Edited October 28, 2019 by blackpluto96 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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